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View Full Version : Does a Pure Polish/Glaze really add anything to a perfectly prepped panel?



RaskyR1
Jan 2nd, 2009, 03:12 PM
A little debate came about when discussing pure polishes and glazes on another forum. The debate was as to whether they actually added anything to a paint, on a panel that has already been polished to perfection? :nervous1

I say yes....even my girl saw a noticable darkening to the paint when I did a test panel.


Mike, can you add the poll? for some reason it didn't work for me... :D

Mike Phillips
Jan 2nd, 2009, 03:17 PM
Did I do that well enough?

Let me know if you want to change or add more options to the poll.

Also, it's set up so you can vote for more than one option.

Just to note, as this topic has been discussed to death in the past, on a brand new car, applying a pure polish won't result in a dramatic difference and it shouldn't because the paint is BRAND NEW! (Something lots of people seem to not think of).

Pure polishes also create a more dramatic effect on older paints, not brand new paints and especially single stage paints as they are more porous and the polishing oils are more able to penetrate into the paint and that's when they bring out the richness of clarity as well as add depth.

Modern clear coats are pretty dense and don't absorb well until they become worn and more opened. (Do a search using the word interstices) Also note that Meguiar's ALWAYS has stated that polishing with a pure polish is an OPTIONAL STEP. You don't have to do it.

How's that?

:)

RaskyR1
Jan 2nd, 2009, 03:20 PM
LOL...looks like it wasn't just me. :D

akimel
Jan 2nd, 2009, 03:29 PM
A little debate came about when discussing pure polishes and glazes on another forum. The debate was as to whether they actually added anything to a paint, on a panel that has already been polished to perfection? :nervous1

I say yes....even my girl saw a noticable darkening to the paint when I did a test panel.

Golly, Rasky, if your gal saw a difference, who are we to disagree? :D

RaskyR1
Jan 2nd, 2009, 03:38 PM
Thanks Mike! I've read a few of the threads in the past.

Nappers
Jan 2nd, 2009, 03:44 PM
Good question.

I used it on our Yukon, didn't notice a huge difference, but on the '66 Dodge D100 of the boy's with S.S. paint, it realliy looked nice.

akimel
Jan 2nd, 2009, 08:38 PM
Surely a categorical yay or nay is out of place. Surely one must examine the matter on a case-by-case basis. Clearly a number of people do believe that a pure polish or glaze can help paint look better in some situations; otherwise, they wouldn't buy and use the stuff.

Carfire
Jan 2nd, 2009, 08:43 PM
I said yes, because the point of a polish is to add gloss.

OhioCarBuff
Jan 2nd, 2009, 09:52 PM
I have been buffing my family and occasionally a friends car with meguiars products since '97 and will say beyond a shadow of a doubt that when you do an extra pure polish step it adds extra pop. The level of extra pop varies from car to car though, it may make a 1% difference on a 1 year old car, but say you were buffing a 5 year old car with the typical amout of neglect it would make a much bigger difference.

I remember the first time I used #7 on my black trans am 12 years ago I was absolutely blown away by the extra richness it added, in fact that's what got me hooked on Meguiars!

OhioCarBuff
Jan 2nd, 2009, 10:07 PM
One more thing I'll add, I don't know if it's true or not, but my observation from years of buffing is that the older clear coat paints responded to the pure polishes more then the clear coat paints they use today. I have had a number of cars from the 80's with origional clear coat paint and from what I recall they faded similar to the way a single stage would have and would respond to the pure polishes very dramatically. In fact my black trans am was a 1987 model with original clear coat paint, it had really low miles and was garaged when I had it so the paint was in excellent condion, but it would fade and respond to a buffing and pure polish way more dramatically then the new cars now

Asphalt Rocket
Jan 3rd, 2009, 11:04 AM
This is a very interesting thread.

akimel
Jan 3rd, 2009, 12:15 PM
I have noticed that appreciation of glazes/"pure polishes" varies from one detailing forum to another. Some forums seem to like them; others don't. For example, many folks over at Detailing World also believe that glazes (whether traditional glazes like #7 or polymer glazes as Danase Wet Glaze, can make some (not all but some) paint surfaces look wetter or glossier. For example, Dave KG (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1260347&postcount=21) (our "Kickin' Griffin"), a highly regarded British detailer, recently suggested that Megs' #7 can add more to a dark paint than even an elite wax like Swissvax's Best of Show:


I have and very much like Swissvax BoS (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/autolink.php?id=16&forumid=13&script=showpost) ... lovely smelling wax, may add a little extra wettness but in honesty nothing that you wont see on a well prepped surface and certainly not as much as something like Megs #7 will offer a solid dark colour.

I do not know how to explain these differences in perception from individual to individual, from internet forum to internet forum. Certainly these differences are not simply a matter of "buffing experience" or "detailing knowledge" or even "age." I suspect that, at least partially, we "see" what we want to see. Is it a duck or a rabbit? (http://www.seabury.edu/faculty/akma/duckrab.gif) We are all looking for ways to make our cars look just the tiniest better. I personally want to believe that glazes and waxes can make a difference, no matter how small, so I imagine that I will subconsciously try to persuade myself that I do see a difference. And who knows, maybe there really is an objective difference ... or maybe not. On the other hand, those who are convinced that prep is everything may well persuade themselves that a glaze makes no difference at all. And who knows, maybe they are right ... or maybe not.

A blind glaze test, analogous to Dave KG's wax test, might prove illuminating, but I can't imagine anyone ever organizing and pulling off such a test.

So I will continue to apply #7 to my black Luthien, believing that it makes the car look just a little bit wetter ... and I will continue to do so until I don't want to do so any longer. I'm a romantic, not a scientist. :)

Cheers,
Al

CarbonBlack
Jan 3rd, 2009, 05:38 PM
I don't know!
:xyxthumbs

-Nick

OwnerCS
Jan 3rd, 2009, 06:10 PM
I'm really happy and excited about the results I get with a mix of Meguiar's products. My Nighthawk Black Ridgeline's hood paint was gone to be with the dead before I found a way to revive it... It was heavily scratched and cracked up.. Also the front had been keyed once..

To repair the problem, I set aside the money to have it repainted.. As a last ditch effort before I sent it to the body shop, I used a mix of ColorX and Mirror Glaze #2 Fine-Cut Cleaner, naturally ScratchX and some 1200 with the Ultimate Quick Detailer to lubricate the paper and the buffer pad. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o:p></o:p>
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Sure the process was multi-step. But I had a finish that was, by most accounts, beyond recovery. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I agree that a final polish step adds that extra sparkle. After I buffed the finish and removed the problem areas with a 1800 RPM buffer, applied and hand rubbed application of #2 Fine Cut Cleaner, before sealing it up with Tech Wax and a final rubdown with the Ultimate Quick Detailer. You can see the difference that final hand polishing step helps to create a perfect mirror finish. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

akimel
Jan 4th, 2009, 02:08 PM
Check out this new thread at Detailing World (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=98889). Clearly there are a number of folks out there who believe that #7 adds something "extra" to a well-prepped surface.

gjohn28
Jan 4th, 2009, 03:25 PM
Several years ago, before I knew as much as I know now (through MOL) about detailing, I used the Mother's version of a 3 step system (paint cleaner, polish, wax) on a red (my next favorite color after black) 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I had been using just a regular cleaner wax prior and decided to see what difference a dedicated paint cleaner and polish would make. Again, I really had no idea of what purpose these items served, but thought it was worth a shot just to see.

Not only was I amazed at the depth and wetness the polish made, but when my wife took the car to work, several people asked her where she got the car "detailed." Needless to say, I was flattered and have been a "believer" in polish ever since. I doubt that a 96 Grand Cherokee was SS paint, but it definitely made a difference from the basic cleaner wax regimen I had always followed.

I, for one, am convinced that no matter what color you are dealing with, single-stage or clear coat, polish can make a difference.

RaskyR1
Jan 4th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Check out this new thread at Detailing World (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=98889). Clearly there are a number of folks out there who believe that #7 adds something "extra" to a well-prepped surface.

:xyxthumbs

Tuck91
Feb 1st, 2009, 06:37 PM
When I use a Meguiars Pure Polish it darkens my paint and it is a part of the 5 step paint care cycle.

3Fitty
Feb 2nd, 2009, 03:55 PM
I *thought* I saw a differnce with #7 but (like Rasky) I asked wifey to point out the panel with #7 and the one without.

It took her 2 seconds to immediately identify the panel with #7 on her silver CR-V (both panels were clean and swirl/scratch free before I put on the #7).

HOWEVER (and I am not 100% sure about this), but I do think NXT 2.0 or any other LSP doesn't seem to last as long when I use #7. Is this just me or anyone else notice this?

Tuck91
Feb 2nd, 2009, 04:48 PM
I *thought* I saw a differnce with #7 but (like Rasky) I asked wifey to point out the panel with #7 and the one without.

It took her 2 seconds to immediately identify the panel with #7 on her silver CR-V (both panels were clean and swirl/scratch free before I put on the #7).

HOWEVER (and I am not 100% sure about this), but I do think NXT 2.0 or any other LSP doesn't seem to last as long when I use #7. Is this just me or anyone else notice this?
If your LSP dosent last as long when you use #7 you may have to wax more frequently to lock in the polishing oils in Show Car Glaze. Are you applying just one coat or are you doing 2 coats of your LSP

3Fitty
Feb 2nd, 2009, 04:52 PM
My general rule is two coats, 12 hours apart.

Tuck91
Feb 2nd, 2009, 04:58 PM
My general rule is two coats, 12 hours apart.
I have not noticed my LSP (which 99.5% percent of the times is Tech Wax 2.0) not last as long when using Show Car Glaze.

Perphaps others could join in

3Fitty
Feb 2nd, 2009, 05:22 PM
I would say I almost always use NXT 2.0 with two exceptions... tried Collinite 476s on my "winterizing wax" and when I did my 9 wax test.

Maybe it's just me or maybe it was the elements, it just seems like when I use #7 I can barely get a month out of my NXT 2.0 and I'll get more than 2 months when I don't.

KNJ
Mar 4th, 2009, 06:56 AM
I have not noticed that it can shorten the life of the last step product. I have experimented by applying #7 over 21 and NXT in the past. Don't remember the longevity of that sequence.
As far as #7 making a difference, it depends on the paint. In some instances I have seen dramatic improvement, on others no perceivable difference. I think it depends on the results you are looking to achieve, if it looks better and meets your expectations with #7 then go with it.

blackmachdown
Mar 4th, 2009, 09:30 AM
I think the nxt not lasting as long is due in part to nxt sitting on top of the oils from the glaze as the oils dissipate the nxt which has already crosslinked "falls off" if you will.

But then again thats my opinion and I am not a chemist for Megs, so maybe one of those guys can come in and post about what happens.

I really use the glaze for my wifes car (nice day weekend car) and ill be using it on the vette (nice day weekend car), for the daily drivers i skip that step and go straight to nxt

Mike Phillips
Mar 4th, 2009, 10:24 AM
I think the nxt not lasting as long is due in part to nxt sitting on top of the oils from the glaze as the oils dissipate the nxt which has already crosslinked "falls off" if you will.

But then again thats my opinion and I am not a chemist for Megs, so maybe one of those guys can come in and post about what happens.


Checked with R&D on this a few years ago, there's a couple of threads in our Hot Topics (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80) forum on this topic,

Do Glazes/Fillers affect the bonding of NXT? (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4831)

A question on wax bonding and the potential for interference by a quick detailer? (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5067)


:)

cardriver
Jun 29th, 2009, 07:20 PM
I've done a few test panels with #7 and DC2 before (and even a couple whole cars with them) and cannot say that I could pick out a difference =/.

dreamps
Jun 30th, 2009, 09:52 AM
i think dark colors benefit the most!

Orca
Feb 21st, 2010, 02:16 AM
I think people tackle these kind of questions in the wrong way, often and try to assert some kind of scientific basis for whether products or techniques are worthwhile. In this case, the question was posed "do you think ...".

I do - I like using a glazing step, but I will say this.

Having used a number of glazes from all manner of manufacturers, I keep coming back to Meguiars. I do not use Meguiars for ... well, pretty much anything other than their pure polishes. I find other glazes, say, Chemical Guys EZ Creme Glaze, et al are great for levelling out a surface visually, but often act more like filler polishes when it's all done.

Meguiars pure polishes, especially #3 by machine and #7 by hand (Wow! #7) DO actually add to the finish. They are quite unique products and a sheer pleasure to work with.

But ... not on all surfaces, IMO. I think perfectly finessed clearcoated paintwork doesn't get any better than using a microfine polish to burninsh an astouding glassy coat. Single stage paint is another matter - this is where a product like #3 does quite amazing things. I have a VERY sceptical machine polishing partner who denies any improvement in looks by using a glaze, but ... he's just bought a 1990 BMW with single stage red paint. I said, "we'll polish it down with 3M, as usual and then I'll show you what #3 can do ...". He's now a convert:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YQR0VjIdd_0/S4BRmWUoF5I/AAAAAAAAIV0/viroz8TxvXg/s800/DSCF3270.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YQR0VjIdd_0/S4BRo3EknUI/AAAAAAAAIV4/opiJF83IPuU/s800/DSCF3274.JPG

He was concerned it would be "oily" and that look would be lost with an IPA wipedown, but I assured him that the paint would be creaking clean after an application of #3. "What does it actually do, then?", he asked ... "Dunno ... some kind of magic!". #3 leaves a considerably more glassy finish.

Interesting discussion.

So, I have to sit on the fence with this one ... NO ... and YES, depending on whether the car is clearcoated or single stage.

TOGWT
Feb 21st, 2010, 06:13 AM
The oils that are formulated in Carnauba waxe / glaze provide gloss, which causes jetting (a ‘wetting’ of the surface) this distorts the light reflectance, giving the surface the ‘look’ of a mirror in shallow water reflecting a three-dimensional deep, rich colour, in contrast, bees wax, paraffin and many synthetic waxes and some polymer sealants tend to occlude (cloud) the finish

Mike Phillips
Mar 19th, 2010, 04:44 AM
Meguiars pure polishes, especially #3 by machine and #7 by hand (Wow! #7) DO actually add to the finish.

They are quite unique products and a sheer pleasure to work with.


Single stage paint is another matter




I agree.

I quoted you and then surgically cut out everything but the really strong portions and bolded the key points.

Anyone that's ever worked on an old school single stage paint can appreciate products like #3 and #7, M05, M09, M81 are no slouches, but #3 and especially #7 are very unique products in the paint polishing industry.

#7 has been around near as I can tell since sometime in the 1930's and maybe the 1920's in some form or other....

http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/800_M07Collection.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/OldMeguiarsAutoPolish2_001.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M03GreenLabel001.jpg


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze001.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/OldMeguiarsAutoPolish1_001.jpg



:)

Orca
Mar 19th, 2010, 06:22 AM
Actually, re-reading the initial question: Does a Pure Polish/Glaze really add anything to a perfectly prepped panel? one could argue that a pure polish used at the end of a polishing set is actually part of perfectly preparing a panel.

FRS
Jul 8th, 2010, 03:58 PM
I agree that #7 is more noticeable on dark colors. I use it for about 7 years now, so this is my opinion..:D

BillyJack
Sep 25th, 2010, 07:09 AM
If by some ill fate Meguiar's reverted back to a one-man garage operation, I'd truly hope #7 is the product they would choose to perpetuate. I've been using it since the early 70's and have yet to find a car on which it made no difference.

Bill