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Mike Phillips
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:14 PM
Scratch Removed using Ultimate Compound (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29753)

The below pictures were taken during the first Saturday Class for 2009 and the thread for that class can be found by clicking the link below.

Pictures from the first 2009 Saturday Open Class! (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29705)




It's pretty common to pick up isolated, random scratches in your car's finish over time, especially if your car is a daily driver. Here's an example from one of our recent Saturday Detailing Classes here at Meguiar's where we used the new Ultimate Compound (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28334) to remove about 98% of scratch right wear your eyes would see it everyday, right above the door handle.


Deep Scratch just above the door handle - Original resized to 800 pixels wide after cropping
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1010/Jan10_2009OG_016.jpg




These are all original shots, the photos have not been resized, the portion shown was cropped out of the original.

Before
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1010/Jan10_2009OG_012.jpg


After 3 applications of Ultimate Compound
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1010/Jan10_2009OG_013.jpg


After a few more applied by the owner
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1010/Jan10_2009OG_014.jpg

Also, those results were before any wax or any other product was applied. What you see is just the results of Ultimate Compound hand applied using a clean, soft foam applicator pad.


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/809/G17216_UltimateCompound.jpg


:xyxthumbs

Markus Kleis
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:20 PM
Very impressive! That looks like the Nissan GT-R handle...

Tuck91
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:47 PM
would ultimate compound be more effective than Scratch X 2.0 in that situation

Mike Phillips
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:52 PM
would ultimate compound be more effective than Scratch X 2.0 in that situation

All things being equal except for product choice, Ultimate Compound will be more aggressive.

If the goal is to remove as little paint as possible,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Then you wouldn't know which product would be more effective as far as removing the scratch while leaving as much paint behind on the surface until you first tried the ScratchX. That's in part because you can't always tell how deep a scratch is until you start working on it and you don't know how hard or soft the paint is until you start working on it.

ScratchX is also a very effective paint cleaner but in this case the scratch was deep and even with Ultimate Compound and good technique it took multiple applications to remove enough paint to remove most of the scratch.

:)

Tuck91
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:01 PM
All things being equal except for product choice, Ultimate Compound will be more aggressive.

If the goal is to remove as little paint as possible,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Then you wouldn't know which product would be more effective as far as removing the scratch while leaving as much paint behind on the surface until you first tried the ScratchX. That's in part because you can't always tell how deep a scratch is until you start working on it and you don't know how hard or soft the paint is until you start working on it.

ScratchX is also a very effective paint cleaner but in this case the scratch was deep and even with Ultimate Compound and good technique it took multiple applications to remove enough paint to remove most of the scratch.

:)
Thanks for the quick response. I should have thought of all the factors that come into play when removing defects, such as how hard or soft the paint is and using the least aggressive method to get the job done. If i have a defect i cannot remove with Scratch X 2.0 its a good thing there is something a little more aggressive to accomplish my goal.

Thanks again

Mike Phillips
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:05 PM
If i have a defect i cannot remove with Scratch X 2.0 its a good thing there is something a little more aggressive to accomplish my goal.


Ultimate Compound works really well and look at the gloss on the paint after we were done? Pretty amazing considering it's an aggressive compound.

:)

Tuck91
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:10 PM
Ultimate Compound works really well and look at the gloss on the paint after we were done? Pretty amazing considering it's an aggressive compound.

:)
It did finish out pretty nice and it did not haze up or marr the finish like other rubbing compounds do and would require moving down to a less agressive product to clean up the compounds work. Ultimate Compound will be a great product to have in the consumer line.

J. A. Michaels
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Good info, looks like another great product from Meguiars.

Tuck91
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:51 PM
Good info, looks like another great product from Meguiars.
most definetly

Mikejl
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:52 PM
That is truly amazing for Ultimate Compound to have that much cut and still finish out so glossy! :dp: Great demonstration Mike. :xyxthumbs Way to go Meguiar's! :doublethumbsup2

Mike

sunfire
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:20 PM
I hope there will be many more reviews like this to come. :woot2:dp:

somarr
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Those are great results! I have to ask though since technique is only 1 part of the equation for defect removal, how do you decide application method, by hand or DA? Since there were 6 or so applications, if you were using a DA, should you have started with ScratchX 2.0 and then moved to Ultimate Compound?

Dibbuz
Jan 13th, 2009, 04:51 AM
Mike, any idea how much clear coat is removed?

vam_ras
Jan 13th, 2009, 05:00 AM
Those are great results! I have to ask though since technique is only 1 part of the equation for defect removal, how do you decide application method, by hand or DA?

Mike, could you tell you how you produce this great result as, Did you work by Hand or with a DA??

Markus Kleis
Jan 13th, 2009, 05:07 AM
Those are great results! I have to ask though since technique is only 1 part of the equation for defect removal, how do you decide application method, by hand or DA? Since there were 6 or so applications, if you were using a DA, should you have started with ScratchX 2.0 and then moved to Ultimate Compound?

Meguiar's preaches using the "least aggressive method that will get the job done" first. So, you would want to start with ScratchX 2.0 by hand, and then work your way up *if* necessary to more aggressive options.

somarr
Jan 13th, 2009, 09:32 AM
Thanks! I understand that. But in this, case there were several passes made by hand. Is that not the purpose of the DA, to make it easier? So with a DA and the right combination of pad and product, you might have corrected the defect with less physical effort?

Again, I am just trying to understand on the decision as it will be a month or two before I can experiment with my new DA.

Mike Phillips
Jan 13th, 2009, 10:02 AM
First, this scratch was removed 'quickly' during a Saturday Class. Pictures from the first 2009 Saturday Open Class! (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29705)


This Saturday class had 32 people in it. When you have 32 people to take care of and instruct, you don't spend a lot of time on one little scratch except to show,

The defect
The product
The technique
The results and then move on....

Make sense?

It's a lot different than you by yourself tinkering on your car in the garage on a Saturday, you don't have to hold the attention of 32 people.

Also, since it's a class, the idea here was to show everyone how to remove a scratch with the thing they already own, the human hand. Everyone there this day owned two hands, not everyone there this day owned a DA Polisher. So as an Instructor, you have to keep these kinds of things in mind so that you address the entire class, not just a segment.

Besides the above, when it comes to removing RIDS or Random, Isolated Deeper Scratches, this is where the word EXERT (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/tags.php?tag=exert) comes back into the equation.


Now this is key...

You can exert more pressure with 3-4 of your fingers pushing down onto a small area on a wax applicator pad than you can with the entire face of a foam buffing pad oscillating on a DA polisher. More direct pressure to a smaller area means more more paint removing power. The machine isn't always the answer to every defect.


So for educational purposes, we removed the scratch by hand. :xyxthumbs






Those are great results! I have to ask though since technique is only 1 part of the equation for defect removal, how do you decide application method, by hand or DA?


See the comments above on the word Exert. Also see the comments on addressing the needs of an entire class of people by teaching them both how to work by machine and by hand.



Since there were 6 or so applications, if you were using a DA, should you have started with ScratchX 2.0 and then moved to Ultimate Compound?


Typically you would choose the least aggressive product to get the job done. In this case I looked at the scratch and drew upon over 2 decades of experience detailing cars and newly gained experience working with Ultimate Compound and chose it as my first product of choice as I new it was going to require some cleaning power to remove enough paint to remove or reduce the visibility of the scratch.



Mike, any idea how much clear coat is removed?


No idea. In the big picture of life or in this case car ownership when you have an unsightly scratch like this example, right above the door handle, one of the things that every person getting into the car is going to use and thus see the scratch, you have to decide either to Go or No Go, that is you're either going to remove the scratch or learn to live with it. From that point of view measuring film-build becomes secondary to just making the paint look good again.

The goal of course is to remove enough paint to either remove the defect completely or improve the defect to the point that it's harder to see and doesn't bother you any more and do either approached without going through the clear layer of paint. Sometimes you just have to be careful and don't go crazy with the rubbing of product when common sense and your instincts put your brakes on.

Not everyone owns a Thickness Gauge, I don't and I've never relied upon one to do my work, I temper experience with a little common sense and caution. Besides that on the forum and in our classes we always tell people that some defects are too deep to remove safely so everyone has to have realistic expectations and often times just improving a defect to the point where it's hard to see is better and safer than trying to completely remove the defect and risk going through the clear and exposing the dull basecoat.

If you look closely in the last "After" picture, you can see a trace of the original scratch. You have to look closely though and that's the point. :D



Mike, could you tell you how you produce this great result as, Did you work by Hand or with a DA??


By hand. See comments at the top of this reply.



Thanks! I understand that. But in this, case there were several passes made by hand. Is that not the purpose of the DA, to make it easier? So with a DA and the right combination of pad and product, you might have corrected the defect with less physical effort?


In order to remove a scratch or any other kind of below surface defect you must remove a little paint.

In order to remove paint best, the pad on a DA Polisher needs to be rotating, not merely vibrating against the paint.

To keep the pad on a DA Polisher rotating you need to keep it flat against the paint and you can't push to hard.

If you buff on a curved in the body panel, or on a body line, as soon as you have more pressure to a small area of the face of the buffing pad this pressure will cause the buffing pad to stop rotating, thus stop removing paint.

Taking all of the above into consideration, plus the fact that you can exert more pressure with your fingers pushing down on a wax applicator pad hand you can with a 6" or 7" foam buffing pad, for some defects, the right way to remove them is by hand or a rotary buffer, not a DA Polisher. If you don't own a rotary buffer and/or don't know how to use one then you always have the "Hand" to fall back on and that's one of the reasons we always teach both hand techniques and machine techniques at all our classes.

Make sense?




Again, I am just trying to understand on the decision as it will be a month or two before I can experiment with my new DA.


Great questions! This is why the forum is here to do our best to share knowledge so you'll be successful when you go out into your garage and work on your car.

:)

Tuck91
Jan 13th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Now that we have seen Ultimate Compound in action, I am looking forward to seeing some SwirlX in a writeup/review

Buhundred
Jan 18th, 2009, 03:13 PM
I've got a question, was that scratch deep enough to feel with your fingernail? and was it down to the primer?

Markus Kleis
Jan 18th, 2009, 04:58 PM
I've got a question, was that scratch deep enough to feel with your fingernail? and was it down to the primer?

If it was down to the primer then using ANY abrasive product would have taken it down even further into the primer, or beyond. Note that there is still color coat AND clear coat remaining in the after pictures.

So, even without fancy measurement tools you can tell it wasn't into the primer.

As for the fingernail test, I didn't touch it when I saw it, so someone who did would have to comment on that :D

streetracer1232
Jan 25th, 2009, 06:40 AM
i just used this stuff i had a scuff mark bad below my driver tail light used a buffer one application came right up

MyFirstES300
Mar 7th, 2009, 01:54 PM
In relation to M105, which is more aggressive, UC or M105?

Markus Kleis
Mar 7th, 2009, 08:33 PM
In relation to M105, which is more aggressive, UC or M105?

M105 by a fair amount.

speed3blackmica
Oct 31st, 2009, 12:14 PM
does ultimate compound need hazing/drying time ?

mauriciodm
Jun 16th, 2010, 09:30 AM
does ultimate compound need hazing/drying time ?
I have the same doubt. :dunno

Markus Kleis
Jun 16th, 2010, 10:38 AM
does ultimate compound need hazing/drying time ?

Absolutely not. Compounds and abrasive polishes work by being pushed against the paint and abrading the surface down. Allowing either product to sit on the surface and dry will literally accomplish nothing - aside from making it more difficult to remove.

mauriciodm
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:25 AM
Thank you :xyxthumbs

Markus Kleis
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:32 AM
Thank you :xyxthumbs

No problem! :wavey

BlackScreaminMachine
Jun 25th, 2010, 05:25 AM
Very Impressed with results!!!

tecka
Jun 25th, 2010, 07:39 AM
I might be doing something wrong but when I used UC to remove scratchs it looked great in the garage but when I took it out into the sun there were swirls all over the areas I worked on but a few were fine. What causes these swirls on one area and not the next?

I used the Gv2 with a yellow pad on setting 5 and did about 2' x 2' areas with 5 good passes.

Murr1525
Jun 25th, 2010, 07:53 AM
What kind of vehicle was it, any different paints involved?

Leebers
Jul 24th, 2010, 01:51 AM
Hi there I am a first time car owner, i bought myself a 2009 Dodge Charger SXT in Blue. A few weeks ago I was parked in a parking lot and someone had hit my car when I was on the store. I have been delaying trying to fix it as my lack of knowledge in the subject. I have purchased scratch x and ultimate compound, as well as Gold class paste wax. I plan on buffing it after the research I have done.But now that I am getting the information I am unclear on Ultimate Compound, I thought it was a polish/swirl remover and I am not sure if its an actual rubbing compound? I am thinking apply the scratch x first if it doesn't help apply the Ultimate Compound. Also if I use it on one area ( there are several scratches) do I need to use this product on my whole car? Should i further purchase another form for swirl removing? Any suggestions on products or any advice would be much appreciated.
-Lee

Tash
Aug 18th, 2010, 11:01 PM
What a fantastic thread - I have picked up so much useful information, particularly when it comes to paint removal in regards to a scratch, a concept I now understand better.

I must say I am thoroughly impressed with Ultimate Compound; I applied it to my whole car recently by hand (though I did not apply a great deal of pressure) and it removed so many fine white scratches and imperfections all over the car :D Plus, as people have mentioned it left a lovely gloss and reflection which I feel made the end result after polishing and waxing that much better.

I do however, need to go over a few bigger scratches using ScratchX and some patience :)

Ravi_1992
Aug 19th, 2010, 01:13 AM
I love UC , Such great results for a cheaper product. I like the cinnamon smell to it.

skipper1
Sep 29th, 2010, 04:07 AM
What about D151 compared to UC. Would D151 be able to get out that scratch or would you need to step up to UC? I've used D151 and really like the results but am still learning.

Michael Stoops
Sep 29th, 2010, 07:54 AM
What about D151 compared to UC. Would D151 be able to get out that scratch or would you need to step up to UC? I've used D151 and really like the results but am still learning.
D151 is quite a bit less aggressive than UC. While it may remove some scratches, UC is likely going to give better success on more severe issues when working by hand. If you have an isolated issue that needs work, and you have D151 on hand but no UC, by all means give the D151 a shot first. If it does the job, great! If not, then UC is some pretty good stuff to have in your detailing arsenal anyway.

ethereal45
Jul 4th, 2011, 08:37 PM
I realize this is an older thread, but I bought some UC and some foam applicator pads to give my 1998 silver BMW a makeover. I don't have any scratches that deep, but I do have some decent sized ones on the hood and around the trunk area.

I am a complete beginner, it will be my first time doing anything but washing. Is it safe to go straight to a product like UC? The paint hasn't been touched with anything besides car wash in it's 13 year history. I was planning on doing over the entire car to bring some sparkle back to the paint, is UC what I should be using?

Alternatively I was thinking something like ScratchX to go over the whole car with some focused UC work on the deeper scratches? I don't want to burn off my entire clear coat going a little too nuts with UC.

Thanks,
Alex

Murr1525
Jul 5th, 2011, 05:31 AM
With a product like UC, you can apply more gently when just doing general cleaning, and more 'passionately' when going for swirl/defect removal.

While you may prefer something like SwirlX or Ult. Polish for regular cleanings in the future, UC wont be a problem the first time.

As far as how much correction you can get by hand, you'll just have to try and see. A whole car can be tiring...

ethereal45
Jul 5th, 2011, 09:21 AM
Yeah I realize its a big project, probably one that I would have to space over a few days. I just am not really looking to spend $150 on a DA Polisher at the moment. I have a bad habit of getting into new hobbies and investing waaaaay too much up front.

I'd like to see what kind of results I can get by hand on a few days, then perhaps transition to some machine work later down the road after getting some experience.

Murr1525
Jul 5th, 2011, 09:30 AM
Nothing wrong with that.

avenger28
Aug 7th, 2011, 11:21 PM
I find that i can get rid of the scratches faster using a microfiber to apply the UC.
Is this ..bad? Should i be using a foam applicator instead?
I have two sides to my applicator, one side is normal, the other is cloth like (can i use this side too?)
Thanks!