PDA

View Full Version : Is it true?



Civic Man
Apr 25th, 2009, 09:32 AM
May I ask, is it true that the higher the percentage of the Carnuba content in the wax, the more it gives the 'depth' and 'thick oily' look?

PorscheGuy997
Apr 25th, 2009, 10:15 AM
Not necessary...

NXT 2.0 and M21 2.0 contain no carnauba, yet give tremendous depth.

Some of the companies that advertise the high percentage of carnauba (Swissvax and Zy***) are marketing their product to those who believe the more carnauba content, the better.

Ganesa
Apr 25th, 2009, 10:39 AM
I still dont know if it is true or not if a product has more carnauba in it or not will add depth, but as long as the product that im using gives me the best satisfaction in results, im definately sticking to it, curently im using nxt 2.0 :]

Maserati Mario
Apr 25th, 2009, 06:01 PM
Clean flat paint gives you that look
The wax on top enhances and magnifies it, some better than others

pampos
Apr 25th, 2009, 07:14 PM
Clean flat paint gives you that look
The wax on top enhances and magnifies it, some better than others
+1 on that..The trick is the preparation of the paint....I found that different LSP's can change a little bit the look of the car,but they will do nothing if you dont prepare the paint right...Also there are some glazes that you can use to add on the paint's look but as above the trick is on the preparation....

J. A. Michaels
Apr 26th, 2009, 05:27 AM
+1 on that..The trick is the preparation of the paint....I found that different LSP's can change a little bit the look of the car,but they will do nothing if you dont prepare the paint right...Also there are some glazes that you can use to add on the paint's look but as above the trick is on the preparation....

+2. That is the key in my eyes. How well you prepare the finish is directly related to how the finished product looks.

TH0001
Apr 27th, 2009, 07:54 AM
Carnauba wax is the primary ingredient in gummy bears and medical pills. I would not describe either has having absolute depth....

Also keep in mind that there is NO scientific standard for measuring the amount of carnauba wax in a product, but the general rule of the thumb from the numerous formulators and pourers I have spoken with is that it is impossible to make carnauba wax with more then 35% wet volume apply and remove easily. Past about 50% it becomes impossible.

The oily look is primarly from the oils blended into the carnauba wax, not from the carnauaba wax. It is the opinion of EVERY blender and formulator I have spoken with that the other ingredients in the wax are far more important then the wax itself.

Don
May 2nd, 2009, 12:53 AM
May I ask, is it true that the higher the percentage of the Carnuba content in the wax, the more it gives the 'depth' and 'thick oily' look?


This sounds like an old argument by die-hard carnuaba fans against using synthetic sealants, saying that sealants give a dry, sterile look.

stump
May 4th, 2009, 03:06 PM
its all in the eye of the beholder......

Eddie6th
May 22nd, 2009, 07:49 PM
May I ask, is it true that the higher the percentage of the Carnuba content in the wax, the more it gives the 'depth' and 'thick oily' look?

Ah good,another civic lover!

I use carnauba from the deep crysal set.I have no problems with that.i wouldn't waste my poppy on that 'exotic' stuff. if you check out youtube,there is a 5 min clip from a program called fifth gear.The guy does a good job,but i don't see any difference in appearance from the car in that clip and some of the pics i see from people inthis site! There is a limit to how well something can be polished.Once you reach the zenith...that's it!

Eddie6th
May 22nd, 2009, 07:56 PM
Carnauba wax is the primary ingredient in gummy bears and medical pills. I would not describe either has having absolute depth....

Also keep in mind that there is NO scientific standard for measuring the amount of carnauba wax in a product, but the general rule of the thumb from the numerous formulators and pourers I have spoken with is that it is impossible to make carnauba wax with more then 35% wet volume apply and remove easily. Past about 50% it becomes impossible.

The oily look is primarly from the oils blended into the carnauba wax, not from the carnauaba wax. It is the opinion of EVERY blender and formulator I have spoken with that the other ingredients in the wax are far more important then the wax itself.

I didn't know about the gummy bears!Good advice! I havn't tried NXT 2.0 as yet.I've always used the step3 carnauba.i'm happy with that.I would like to try the nxt though.

I have talked to Joseph at Meguiar's.Where can i get the G110? I live in Italy....Aggghhh!

Bounty
May 22nd, 2009, 09:58 PM
Carnauba wax is the primary ingredient in gummy bears and medical pills. I would not describe either has having absolute depth....

Also keep in mind that there is NO scientific standard for measuring the amount of carnauba wax in a product, but the general rule of the thumb from the numerous formulators and pourers I have spoken with is that it is impossible to make carnauba wax with more then 35% wet volume apply and remove easily. Past about 50% it becomes impossible.

The oily look is primarly from the oils blended into the carnauba wax, not from the carnauaba wax. It is the opinion of EVERY blender and formulator I have spoken with that the other ingredients in the wax are far more important then the wax itself.

:iagree:....and this leads to the very important fact that when companies advertise 80% carnauba content or 100% carnauba content they are not referring to the percentage of carnauba content in the overall product. A block of 100% carnauba would be just that....a solid block of rock-like carnauba. They're using advertising and marketing strategies to describe the carnauba "quality" that makes up the typical 20% to 45% carnauba that goes into a formulation. So when they say "80% carnauba" they are stating that of the, say 25% carnauba in the overall formulation, it is 80% pure or something along those lines...

Details
May 28th, 2009, 07:07 AM
Ive heard that carnauba protects better! I forgot where i read that from? But i do use Zymol Glasur 56% by volume, and Zymol Ital 47% by volume and have found that the water beating is drasticaly* better then sealants or other waxes. Yes the shine is there and I beleive in the preperation part of detailing, but as far as protection I'd give it a 10 out of 10. It really does make the water bead up alot better.

Civic Man
Jun 2nd, 2009, 09:21 AM
I've read each and every response and I want to thank everyone for sharing your experience.

Below is a shot from one of my detailing session. I used a carnuaba wax and I love the result. As you can see, it looks Warm, Thick-oily & Dynamic look (of course, with all prep work done before the LSP).

I know I love the result but I'm looking the next higher expectation, I want more Warm, Thicker-oily & more Dynamic look.

I wonder is this is the maximum or something can be achieved further?:D

Any recommendation are welcome.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/290920071020.jpg

Eddie6th
Jun 2nd, 2009, 02:23 PM
Ive heard that carnauba protects better! I forgot where i read that from? But i do use Zymol Glasur 56% by volume, and Zymol Ital 47% by volume and have found that the water beating is drasticaly* better then sealants or other waxes. Yes the shine is there and I beleive in the preperation part of detailing, but as far as protection I'd give it a 10 out of 10. It really does make the water bead up alot better.


I can't argue with you on this point,as i've never tried any zymol products,but i have read a lot of articles. I've also seen a lot of people on youtube that want to show water beading after application of a certain product.

To be honest,i can't see any difference in the water beading after a zymol application or a meguiar's application.I also realise that this water beading is done directly after waxing,so any application is going to sheet off well.(There are some vids.,showing water beading after 2 months etc.)

I personally would not spend that kind of money for a wax.Everyone here can have great looking cars with Meguiar's and it's affordable,which is the best part.

I clayed,followed by the 3 step sys.,2 months ago,and the water still sheets off like it was done yesterday,and my car is parked on a busy street with a lot of dust 24/7.

I've also read a lot of articles over the years,for many areas of automobile care.I've read that Meg's are very particular when it comes to there liquid formulations.One example of this was their choice of carnauba.

Eddie6th
Jun 2nd, 2009, 02:30 PM
I've read each and every response and I want to thank everyone for sharing your experience.

Below is a shot from one of my detailing session. I used a carnuaba wax and I love the result. As you can see, it looks Warm, Thick-oily & Dynamic look (of course, with all prep work done before the LSP).

I know I love the result but I'm looking the next higher expectation, I want more Warm, Thicker-oily & more Dynamic look.

I wonder is this is the maximum or something can be achieved further?:D

Any recommendation are welcome.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/290920071020.jpg

Hi,nice clear,deep reflections you have there.You could try waxes from other product lines and compare them? If you go to www.Meguiar's.com (http://www.Meguiar's.com) and select all videos,there is one showing you how to do this.

If you prepped your car,then cleaned,polished and waxed,and there are no swirls,holograms,webs etc.and you are satisfied that the surface is spotless and free of any defects,then it's just down to your personal preference for a particular wax.:D

ColonelCash
Jun 3rd, 2009, 07:09 AM
Just to clear up something mentioned in earlier posts.

Carnuba wax is not the "primary" ingredient in candy and medicine. If you have some mentos or similar candy near you, check the back label and you will see the primary ingredient listed first and then the percentages drops with each succeeding item listed.

Is carnuba wax listed? On many items, yes. It is used to coat the items and give them a slick feel (especially with mentos). But to say that carnuba wax is the primary ingredient is a misleading statement.

Just wanted to clear that up. Don't want someone to take that out of context like "those crazy MOL guys think all medicine is really car wax".

TH0001
Jun 19th, 2009, 04:53 PM
Just to clear up something mentioned in earlier posts.

Carnuba wax is not the "primary" ingredient in candy and medicine. If you have some mentos or similar candy near you, check the back label and you will see the primary ingredient listed first and then the percentages drops with each succeeding item listed.

Is carnuba wax listed? On many items, yes. It is used to coat the items and give them a slick feel (especially with mentos). But to say that carnuba wax is the primary ingredient is a misleading statement.

Just wanted to clear that up. Don't want someone to take that out of context like "those crazy MOL guys think all medicine is really car wax".

Great point, and something (I haven't re read my statement, but assuming I made the comment) I should have stated cleared. It is often the final coating.

cardriver
Jun 19th, 2009, 07:23 PM
Last week, I "LSP'd" a car with NXT 2.0, then the next morning I topped it with a coat of DC3 Carnauda instead of a 2nd coat of NXT, and it turned out wonderful. No arguments here!

Calais
Jun 22nd, 2009, 06:34 AM
I think that there is no feasible reason to pay the kind of money people pay for Zymol waxes. There is no way its protection, depth and shine exceeds that of Meg's products, deffintely not to the point that I would be willing to pay 100x more for it.

http://www.zymol.com/zymolatlantiqueglaze8oz.aspx

I bought a 12oz tin of Meguiar's Gold Class for around $12 including tax. :D

$1,358 vs. ~$12. yikes Sorry, but I'm not paying ~170 times more for a product that I don't believe will produce a better shine. :rofl:

Caress Detailing
Jun 22nd, 2009, 11:08 AM
I think that there is no feasible reason to pay the kind of money people pay for Zymol waxes. There is no way its protection, depth and shine exceeds that of Meg's products, deffintely not to the point that I would be willing to pay 100x more for it.

http://www.zymol.com/zymolatlantiqueglaze8oz.aspx

I bought a 12oz tin of Meguiar's Gold Class for around $12 including tax. :D

$1,358 vs. ~$12. yikes Sorry, but I'm not paying ~170 times more for a product that I don't believe will produce a better shine. :rofl:

The problem is that people believe that there is magical properties in these kinds of high end boutique waxes. Then there's a weird psychological effect making them believe that it actually makes a difference. Not to knock on other waxes, but honestly. 95-98% of how a car looks is all in the prep. That's the ONE thing that most detailers can agree on. The LSP is really meant for locking in and protecting that shine. Though some LSP's really do add a touch of that pop when used correctly, but most of the times it's ridiculously hard to tell a difference visually from one LSP to the other.

The only time I think anyone would be able to tell a difference is really a Sealant vs Carnauba.

Other than that, what boils down for me is ease of use, protection, and durability. With 99-100% corrected paint, it's going to look amazing either way.

Details
Jul 2nd, 2009, 05:03 AM
It's purpose
In nature carnauba protects leaves on a plant, it does not make them shine. So I dont see why people expect it to shine better. The shine comes from the oils that are mixed with it to make it softer and more workable. Being 100% natural we all know it wont outlast a man made sealant. I do find the beading in high quality carnuabas to be significantly better than other waxes and sealants.
It's use
After stating that, I tend to use those high quality carnuabas on high end cars, 1. bacause of the price, 2. because of better protection, 3. because those types of waxes dont last as long as sealants, it makes it perfect for those cars that dont see to many elements of nature.
My conclusion
Shine, depth, and wetness: comes from the preparation of the paint
Protection: comes from the waxes we use
Which is better: Well, what are you working on? A car that will see rain, snow, and debris everyday? Or something that only gets driven once a week?

TH0001
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:17 AM
This sounds like an old argument by die-hard carnuaba fans against using synthetic sealants, saying that sealants give a dry, sterile look.


I have never noticed that any sealant has given me a 'sterile' look although some of the older sealants (such as Nu Finish) did give a semi plasticy look (to my eyes) but not sterile. Of course when I used that product I never applied it to properly prepped paint as I had no idea what prep was, so it never got a fair shake.

Taking that thought a small step forward, I have never applied a product (wax, sealant, or other wise) and thought, "Wow that looks WORSE! Just the same I have never applied any wax or sealant to polished paint and thought WOW that is 1000000% better. Any difference is small, and sometimes only noticeable in certain lighting or angles. However I do believe that there is a difference none the less, just the difference is not as huge as some people say. I have used everything from a 4 dollar wax to an $8000 dollar super wax and have never found a huge difference.

In fact I will go as far to say that my favorite wax or sealant is the one I last used (in terms of looks).

One formulator I spoke with was adamant inn telling me that the increase in gloss most LSPs provide is from a light filling effect and creating an ooptically smoother surface. If the paint is highly polished, the effect becomes far less dramatic as the light filling isn't needed... Most people don't apply a wax or sealant on polished paint, so this effect could account for the noticeable benefit that define a great finish for the average consumer.

Caress Detailing
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:54 AM
I have never noticed that any sealant has given me a 'sterile' look although some of the older sealants (such as Nu Finish) did give a semi plasticy look (to my eyes) but not sterile. Of course when I used that product I never applied it to properly prepped paint as I had no idea what prep was, so it never got a fair shake.


Isn't Nu Finish more of a polish/compound than an actual sealant? I've also used it in the past and I also had that plasticky muted look. I was only 16 years old at the time, but I can still remember how non-glossy it left my dad's camry.

As for the carnauba vs sealant argument, I have to say that I do see a small visual difference. Carnauba's for me tend to have less optical sharpness however creates that slightly fuzzy warm look, especially on black cars. And sealants have that glassy, sharp reflective-like-glass look to it. Some might say "it's all in your head" but IME, it is what it is.

DailyDriver
Aug 22nd, 2010, 08:46 PM
Clean flat paint gives you that look
The wax on top enhances and magnifies it, some better than others

Before clear coats we needed a good coat of wax to see ourselves. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.

I don't care if it's shiny but I do want it to be slick. :laughing2