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View Full Version : Phew! Might confused - post touch-up product suggestions



walletless
Feb 1st, 2012, 12:06 AM
I am really confused. There are several suggestion on the Internet, and Meguiar's extensive product line does not help either. There are several polishing compounds, several waxing products, and tons of options. For a n00b like me, it is overwhelming. So I am seeking some help here :-)

Story: I bought a brand new 2012 Altima in superblack color. Unfortunately, I scratched it while trying to park in a very narrow space. I used some non-chlorinated brake cleaner to remove the paint transfer, and here is the current state: http://bit.ly/yhRf1D (http://bit.ly/yhRf1D) (look at the previous picture in the album if you are interested seeing the original scratch with paint transfer). There are a few very faint scratches, and 2 scratches that are somewhat big in size, but it has just penetrated the base paint. One of them is at an edge of a curve, making it difficult to sand.

Anyway, now I am set to fix this. I am going to use some touchup paint to fill the large scratches. I will use a toothpick and touchup paint to fill the small scratches (planning to use the universal black from walmart). I will sand most of this with a 2000 or 2500 grit sandpaper (except for the one scratch that is right at an edge).

Now comes the tricky part of buffing/polishing/waxing. What tools, and what compounds should I use.

Tools: Will this suffice: http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/polishers/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html
Polisher: Some people suggest ScratchX 2.0, some suggest Ultimate compound, some suggest using the #105 Ultra Cut. Which one do you recommend, what pad should I use (foam?), and at what speed (1500rpm?)
Finishing: Any suggestions? I think ScratchX 2.0 might not need finishing compound since it does not leave hazy color behind.. but the others might. If so, what finishing compound should I use? #205 Ultra finishing compound or mirror glaze polish? And again, what pad (wool?) and what speed should I use?
Wax: When should I wax, and what product should I use. Some people say I should wax immediately, some suggest waiting couple hours for everything to dry, some say wait a week.. so darn confusing this Internet is! :doh

Please help out! Thanks in advance.. I prefer products that are available either with Walmart/Costco or through Amazon.com (I have prime membership).

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii496/walletless/WP_000319.jpg

greg0303
Feb 1st, 2012, 06:24 AM
Tools: Will this suffice: http://www.harborfreight.com/power-t...der-92623.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/polishers/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html)

Absolutely yes, it's a rotary buffer. Because you'll be working on small/ tight space Meguiar's W63 backing plate and W4003 wool/ W7204 foam cutting and W8204 foam polishing pads will be needed.


Polisher: Some people suggest ScratchX 2.0, some suggest Ultimate compound, some suggest using the #105 Ultra Cut. Which one do you recommend, what pad should I use (foam?), and at what speed (1500rpm?)

M105 Ultra Cut Compound would be the best way to go for sanding mark removal (with either W4003/ W7204). Speed 1400-1500 rpm.


Finishing: Any suggestions? I think ScratchX 2.0 might not need finishing compound since it does not leave hazy color behind.. but the others might. If so, what finishing compound should I use? #205 Ultra finishing compound or mirror glaze polish? And again, what pad (wool?) and what speed should I use?

M205 Ultra Finishing Polish with W8204 foam polishing pad. Speed 1200 rpm.


Wax: When should I wax, and what product should I use.

No wax on fresh paint for at least 30-60 days.


After touching-up the affected areas you need to let the paint fully dry. Then you sand it down gently to make it flat (2000-3000 grit). M105 will remove sanding marks and M205 will restore gloss.

Be careful of heat build up while working with M105, especially if W7204 foam cutting pad is used, just touch the surface from time to time if too hot let it cool down.

Murr1525
Feb 1st, 2012, 06:32 AM
Mike Stoops said that the Cr. ColorChip products work well, so may be an option.

You would want to wait 60-90 days before waxing.

Murr1525
Feb 1st, 2012, 07:08 AM
Mmm.. That's Dr. Color Chip....

walletless
Feb 2nd, 2012, 11:01 PM
Thanks Greg.

I do not seem to find W63 backing pad and several 4" foams on meguiarsonline or other sites online without needing to pay $10+ in shipping. My local Autozone and walmart are not carrying them either..

I am wondering if something like this will work: http://www.amazon.com/Spot-Polishing-COMPLETE-DRILL-ROTARY/dp/B0021KZFCA/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_i

Also, now I am contemplating on the PC 7424xp given the risk of paint burning using the rotaty I linked above from harborfrieght.. was wondering if they are available for rent generally.. I am in South Bay area (near San Jose).. I don't want to spend $150 on a machine that I don't know how to use and will just collect dust if I fail do use it properly first time...

walletless
Feb 2nd, 2012, 11:02 PM
Thanks Murr. I had talked to a csr from Dr.Colorchip, and they said their product will work, but before that I will have to buff up the spot using a DA or rotary.. so using it does not help since I have to buff anyway.. so might as well just use matching touchup paint..

Murr1525
Feb 3rd, 2012, 06:53 AM
Hmm.. buffing before to remove any paint transfer, small defects could be easier than removing sanding marks after... hard to say.

greg0303
Feb 3rd, 2012, 09:40 AM
I am wondering if something like this will work: http://www.amazon.com/Spot-Polishing-COMPLETE-DRILL-ROTARY/dp/B0021KZFCA/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_i
Also, now I am contemplating on the PC 7424xp given the risk of paint burning using the rotaty I linked above from harborfrieght.. was wondering if they are available for rent generally.. I am in South Bay area (near San Jose).. I don't want to spend $150 on a machine that I don't know how to use and will just collect dust if I fail do use it properly first time...

Good thinking. You definitely don't want to practice with a rotary buffer on a car which represents sagnificant value to you.

The problem with drill attachements is that sometimes you can't properly break products. It's rather meant for simple tasks, like polishing and waxing. Meguiar's brings its own tool to the market this year:

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1910/DAPS.gif

Dual action polishers, like Meguiar's G110v2, Porter Cable 7424XP or Griot's Garage 6", are great safe and effective tools. You could master your technique with one of them very quickly to an expert level. They certainly are capable of paint defect removal.

Maybe think about getting one of D/A polishers in the future. If you detail your car/ your friends and neighbors' vehicles twice a year that's a really good investment. It's gonna save you a lot of time and elbow grease. I was extremely happy when I finally stepped up to machine polishing world. The down side is that with backing plate and buffing pad set that's gonna cost some money (however many sites offer special kits: D/A polishers with pads combo).

walletless
Feb 3rd, 2012, 11:09 AM
Hmm.. buffing before to remove any paint transfer, small defects could be easier than removing sanding marks after... hard to say.
Hi Murr. I had already removed the paint transfer using a brake cleaner. The only thing now are light scratches and one chip.. The light scratches will probably not need any touchup paint and sanding - the only thing I plan to touchup and sand is the chip..

walletless
Feb 3rd, 2012, 05:48 PM
Good thinking. You definitely don't want to practice with a rotary buffer on a car which represents sagnificant value to you.

The problem with drill attachements is that sometimes you can't properly break products. It's rather meant for simple tasks, like polishing and waxing. Meguiar's brings its own tool to the market this year:

<image>

Dual action polishers, like Meguiar's G110v2, Porter Cable 7424XP or Griot's Garage 6", are great safe and effective tools. You could master your technique with one of them very quickly to an expert level. They certainly are capable of paint defect removal.

Maybe think about getting one of D/A polishers in the future. If you detail your car/ your friends and neighbors' vehicles twice a year that's a really good investment. It's gonna save you a lot of time and elbow grease. I was extremely happy when I finally stepped up to machine polishing world. The down side is that with backing plate and buffing pad set that's gonna cost some money (however many sites offer special kits: D/A polishers with pads combo).

Thanks Greg. The Meguiar DA is even more expensive than PC 7424XP. Is it that much better to justify the extra $35 cost? Or is it just because it includes a backing plate and foam pad (how many inches pad is included btw)?

greg0303
Feb 4th, 2012, 08:37 AM
Thanks Greg. The Meguiar DA is even more expensive than PC 7424XP. Is it that much better to justify the extra $35 cost? Or is it just because it includes a backing plate and foam pad (how many inches pad is included btw)?

Meguiar's G110v2 has a cruise control: internal circuit that increases torque when down pressure is applied to keep polisher's speed constant. It comes with W68DA backing plate which works with 7-inch Soft Buff 2.0 pads (machine washable).

ADS (Auto Detailing Solutions) and AutoGeek would be good places to visit for D/A polisher + pad combo deals.

http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/car-auto-polishers.html
http://www.autogeek.net/bupo.html

walletless
Feb 5th, 2012, 12:49 PM
So.. I hunted down EVERY hardware store (Homedepot, lowes, osh) and car shop (autozone, oreilly, walmart) in my area to see if anyone carried Meguiar's 105 and 205 compound. Unfortunately, none of them do :-(
Online stores have them, but shipping adds another $10 to the price, making it too expensive. Amazon has some with free shipping, but they are the 32 oz bottles, which I don't need (I need 8 oz only since 105 is not something I will use too often).

I am looking for suggestions to replace 105 compound with another compound (Meguiars or other brand). Most stores here carry turtle wax and 3M stuff, very few carry Meguiars, and the ones that do carry just the low-aggresive stuff like ScratchX and Ultimate compound..

Any suggestions for other popular brands generally carried in local store for cutting compound?

greg0303
Feb 5th, 2012, 02:07 PM
I am looking for suggestions to replace 105 compound with another compound (Meguiars or other brand). Most stores here carry turtle wax and 3M stuff, very few carry Meguiars, and the ones that do carry just the low-aggresive stuff like ScratchX and Ultimate compound..
Any suggestions for other popular brands generally carried in local store for cutting compound?

Actually Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish would be your OTC replacements for M105/ M205 twins. Both Ultimate products are derived from their Mirror Glaze counterparts. Ultimate Compound is a true compound/ aggressive paint cleaner capable of serious defect removal. Ultimate Polish offers even more gloss than M205 with slightly less cut.

Michael Stoops
Feb 6th, 2012, 09:42 AM
So.. I hunted down EVERY hardware store (Homedepot, lowes, osh) and car shop (autozone, oreilly, walmart) in my area to see if anyone carried Meguiar's 105 and 205 compound. Unfortunately, none of them do :-(
Online stores have them, but shipping adds another $10 to the price, making it too expensive. Amazon has some with free shipping, but they are the 32 oz bottles, which I don't need (I need 8 oz only since 105 is not something I will use too often).

I am looking for suggestions to replace 105 compound with another compound (Meguiars or other brand). Most stores here carry turtle wax and 3M stuff, very few carry Meguiars, and the ones that do carry just the low-aggresive stuff like ScratchX and Ultimate compound..

Any suggestions for other popular brands generally carried in local store for cutting compound?


Actually Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish would be your OTC replacements for M105/ M205 twins. Both Ultimate products are derived from their Mirror Glaze counterparts. Ultimate Compound is a true compound/ aggressive paint cleaner capable of serious defect removal. Ultimate Polish offers even more gloss than M205 with slightly less cut.
Greg has this nailed. Don't underestimate Ultimate Compound - it is derived from M105 but is much more user friendly on a DA (longer buffing cycle, far less dust) and can do wonders on all sorts of paint systems with a wide variety of issues. Look through our pictures from Saturday Classes threads (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?36-Pictures-from-Saturday-Classes) for all the different types of paint we've worked on with it. UC is our go to product for these classes because it's so effective.

walletless
Feb 6th, 2012, 09:55 AM
Thanks Mike & Greg. I'll get the Ultimate Compound & Ultimate Polish then. They are readily available at Walmart & Target here!

greg0303
Feb 6th, 2012, 08:52 PM
I think you're going to like this aggressiveness chart (Ultimate Polish being the least aggressive, just slightly below M205):

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/828/SMATaggressivenessOrder.jpg

It was originally tested and posted by Mike Phillips.

walletless
Feb 9th, 2012, 10:10 PM
Thanks. I'll give UC a shot.

One other question: How soon can I touchup paint & clearcoat the scratches? I have not bought the DA polisher yet since I am waiting for a friend who will loan me one next month. But I don't feel comfortable leaving the scratches unprotected (and possibly causing rust later). Can I apply touchup paint & clear coat now, and then use DA with UC and UP about one month later? Or would that be a problem?

walletless
Mar 4th, 2012, 01:25 PM
Hello,

Sorry for bringing this back to life. I finally ordered by PC 7424XP, and will be receiving it next week. Please go to the OP and see the picture of what I am trying to fix, and critique my plan below.

My plan (not mentioning the obvious cleaning, degreasing steps)
{I'll try these steps on a test area first before going straight to the damaged area}
1) Use touch-up paint (universal black from AZ) - 2-3 THIN layers using a toothpick with 20 minutes drying time between each layer
2) Let the paint dry for 3-4 days, then wet-sand it with a 2000 or 3000 grit sand paper
3) Use PC 7424xp with a 5.5" cutting pad and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound until satisfactory
4) Use PC 7424xp with a 5.5" polishing pad and Meguiar's Ultimate Polish until satisfactory
5) After 90 days, apply wax

* If UC/UP does not work, I might step up to M105/M205..
* The car is generally clean, so I don't think claying will be necessary, but after washing, if I feel the need I might do that.


Questions:
1) Good plan? Any improvements suggested?
2) I have gone through several videos on how to use a DA Polisher. Most of these videos demonstrate very well how to do section passes, but the demonstration are on a flat surface like hood or door panel. For a bumper, are there any special instructions I should follow since there are so many curves on the surface?
3) I have already bought the 5.5" 3D Polishing (green) pad to use with UP.
For UC, what pad would you suggest - wool or foam cutting pad? Any particular brand you suggest? My walmart is one of the selected few that will be carrying Meguiars pro line stuff, and some pads as well (they dont have them on shelf yet) - to save shipping, would you suggest using a Megs pad for cutting?

walletless
Mar 5th, 2012, 07:27 PM
Did some more research, and posted similar question on another forum. Most people are talking me out of using a DA Polisher on a bumper since it is made of plastic, and are recommending solutions like Dr.Colorchip & Langka. I think I am convinced they are right and I should settle for something like that instead.

I looked at Langka, and it seems like a good solution, but very expensive. Basically, for $40, they provide you with 3 bottles of 2oz each of:
1) First bottle looks like a degreaser or wax remover
2) Second bottle is the "blob remover" - which looks like a diluted Lacquer thinner with some compound added to it
3) Third bottle is basically a paint sealant

$40 seems a lot for that! Bottle (1) and (3) equivalents are easily to obtain OTC.
The "magic" is in bottle (2). I was wondering if it is easy to manufacture something similar to a blob remover at home by diluting lacquer thinner in some way and adding some compound to it.. anyone has suggestions for that?

I did a search, and there are some threads on Autopia which allude to it as well.. Hope it is OK to paste links from other forums here:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/11360-what-they-dont-want-you-know-langka-%3D-lacquer-thinner.html
http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/11360-what-they-dont-want-you-know-langka-%3D-lacquer-thinner-2.html

Michael Stoops
Mar 6th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Looking at the original image with the scuffs and scrapes on the bumper, here's what we would do:

Wash and dry first, or at least thoroughly clean the area with a quick detail spray to remove any loose contaminants. Go over the are with Ultimate Compound on a W8207 polishing pad at speed 5 with moderate to heavy pressure. Yes, a DA buffer on the bumper. That process is about as common as sunshine in SoCal or trees in a rain forest. We can't for the life of us imagine why anyone would caution you against using a buffer on a bumper cover. Yes, it's true that we would stay away from a 4" cutting pad, a high speed and a lot of pressure with very little movement, but that should be a common sense thing anyway. Using a standard polishing pad with UC should remove a lot of, if not most of, the paint transfer here and greatly reduce the visibility of these defects. You will still be left with some of the deeper marks, especially what looks like a small chunk of missing paint on the right side of the upper most scuff. But that's what the touch up paint is for.

OK, once you've gotten rid of the transfer and lighter areas of the scuffing with the above noted process, it's time to get down and dirty with the touch up. Both Langka and Dr. Colorchip are good products, but the Langka seems to be better suited to small chips while Dr. Colorchip seems to work better across the board (both chips and small scratches) and doesn't require the leveling of a semi dried blob. It most likely will require far less sanding, if any. And the sanding is where things get fun on a curved surface like this. First off, never ever sand with the paper in your bare hand. You want a flexible backing pad to even out the pressure so that it's uniform across the face of the sanding media, and you want it flexible so that it wraps around the curve of the bumper and doesn't create a flat spot. Don't sand in a circular pattern - go in back and forth strokes with only light pressure. 2000 grit should be sufficient to level whatever light touch up you've done, and we'd still suggest following that with 3000 grit, at a different angle, to further refine the sanding marks before buffing. Either way, go lightly at first. It is much, much easier to go back and do a bit more sanding and buffing than it is to take the car to a body shop because you sanded through the clear. Take your time. Go Slow. We can't stress that enough unless you're an expert at this process.

At this point, UC on a W8207 pad with a DA may not be quite potent enough to remove your sanding marks. You may need to step up to M105 or even the DA Microfiber System. But if you finish with 3000 grit it shouldn't be all that tough to remove the marks. It is important to maximize technique here - keep the center line of the pad in contact with the curve of the bumper. The image below shows what NOT to do on a curved surface. While the surface pictured rolls from the top to the side rather than rolling from front to side, the contour is similar so the concept is identical.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1662/DA_intro_2469.JPG

What you want to do is keep that centerline of the pad in direct contact with the radius of the curve, as shown in the somewhat odd looking animated gif below. This will keep the pad rotating, even if you're applying a lot of pressure.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1662/rollwithit.gif

Paint touch up can be a real pain in the ....... well, it can be frustrating. But when you get it right it is also very rewarding. Just don't expect that your repairs will necessarily look like you took the panel to a body shop for a full respray. But you should be able to get this to where it disappears when viewed from 5 feet away and most people will never know it's there unless you point it out to them.

Take your time. Think about what's happening. Go light with everything at first - buffing, touch up fill, sanding, etc.

walletless
Mar 6th, 2012, 10:14 AM
Wow! Thanks Mike for a very extensive reply :-) You just about answered every question I had!

walletless
Mar 6th, 2012, 10:32 AM
One other question: For the large spots that I fill with Colorchip or Langka - should I use a sealant after it? If so, are there any OTC sealants (available at Autozone, Walmart, pep boys, etc) you recommend?