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Solus
May 18th, 2005, 06:32 PM
Switching from 3M to Meguiar's - Rotary Buffer Questions? (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6224)


Hi there, well its me again guys, look i been using 3M products and they work good, i just use the Perfect-It II Rubbing compund and the swirl remover, but now i am interest on using Meguiar's and i found Fine Cut , Medium Cut and Heavy cut cleaners, wich i dont know why i think are similar as Dual action cleaner/polish, compund power cleaner, and diamond cut compund.

The questions is what is the difference between them, i mean i know fine is light compound and heavy is agresive as dual action is light compound and diamond is the agresive one, but why there are like 2 ligth compounds and 2 agresives, is that because of different paints? like the ones of th ebody shops that sometimes are harder cuz of too much harnes and cheap paint, and that the stock ones are soft? Or is just preference or what would be a difference?

Im sure a lot of you guys have used these products would you share with me some of your experience with them? plus comments.

Sometimes you have to work on the Sun because theres no shade, also many compounds dry too fast cuz of the hot surface and evaporate leaving all sticky the compound on the paint, i dont know if this happens with these compounds. Also do they hide swirl marks? like i like to wash the car with a sponge after compund and polish just with water to remove all the dust left by compunding and polishing, and then after that i glaze it and protect it with a pure wax or polymer.(depending on the color) I been detailing for 2 years started with a rotary buffer burning some paints :P but well i have worked on 2 detail shops and a mobile detail, and i got some experience from there, also by doing some side jobs. I dotn burn paint anymore :)

travisdecpn
May 18th, 2005, 08:57 PM
Welcome to MOL. check out this thread, http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5102&highlight=cleaners+and+compounds

Solus
May 18th, 2005, 09:31 PM
Thanks, and i have also other question, after i compound should i use swir remover #9, swirl free polish #82 or speed glaze #80?

And well by the number 9 and 82 i understand they remove the swirl marks left by compounding but by the speed glaze is it hides or is also a polish?, and also if its a polish(swirl remover) wich one is more agresive and wich one is less?

I got confuse by reading a lot and now im like in shock, sorry :(

Which one would you use?

travisdecpn
May 18th, 2005, 09:58 PM
#80 is your best bet. It is very easy to use and leaves a great finish ready for you LSP. #82 is also decent, but I like the ease and finish left by #80 a little more. #9 can be a bit trickey and tends to smear on occassion.

Solus
May 18th, 2005, 10:08 PM
Thanks again for your fast response Travis, but #80 is not gonna hide some of the imperfections left by compounding?, i mean all glazes i know they hide, they dont remove swirl, thats what i am afraid of, and while #82 seems to remove them.

Because youll see when i detail the car, after compound and polish i wash the car with a sponge and pure water, cleaning all the dust of the compound left, then i dry it and put a coat of wax or polymer.

And if the glaze is gonna hide the swirls, when i wash it, the glaze will come down and leave that mirror finish full of swirls again.

I know im crazy why should i wash teh car but, im used to. hehe i used to think the same at teh first time.

travisdecpn
May 18th, 2005, 10:37 PM
#80 is not a filler heavy product. It will remove any hazing after your compounding step. A simple way of checking your work to be sure that you are actually removing the defects would be to use a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol to remove any fillers or oil left behind.

Solus
May 18th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Oh ok then i know what buy now Thanks you very much and im gonna try out these products :)

Mike Phillips
May 19th, 2005, 08:42 AM
Switching from 3M to Meguiar's - Rotary Buffer Questions? (http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6224)



Originally posted by Solus
Hi there, well its me again guys, look i been using 3M products and they work good, i just use the Perfect-It II Rubbing compound and the swirl remover, but now i am interest on using Meguiar's and i found Fine Cut , Medium Cut and Heavy cut cleaners, which i don't know why i think are similar as Dual action cleaner/polish, compound power cleaner, and diamond cut compound.

Hi Solus,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online! :wavey


The questions is what is the difference between them, i mean i know fine is light compound and heavy is aggressive as dual action is light compound and diamond is the aggressive one, but why there are like 2 light compounds and 2 abrasives, is that because of different paints? like the ones of th body shops that sometimes are harder cuz of too much hardness and cheap paint, and that the stock ones are soft? Or is just preference or what would be a difference?

The primary difference is they type of diminishing abrasive they use, at least that's the difference most people would notice when using them. All of these products, M01, M02, M04, M85, M84, M83, M82, M80, can be used on either clearcoated finishes, or non-clearcoated finishes. The 80's series are more modern technology based upon Meguiar's experience formulating products used at the OEM level. I would also like to add that the formula's for the Traditional Mirror Glaze Products, M02, M04, have also been updated when technology allows. I'm not sure about M01 Medium Cut Cleaner.

Either way, both groups of products work well when used according to directions on the label and which one works best for you will be based upon your personal preferences.


I'm sure a lot of you guys have used these products would you share with me some of your experience with them? plus comments.
I think Travis has contributed a lot to this thread already, thank you Travis!


Sometimes you have to work on the Sun because theres no shade, also many compounds dry too fast cuz of the hot surface and evaporate leaving all sticky the compound on the paint, i don't know if this happens with these compounds.

There are no compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes or pure polishes manufactured by Meguiar's specifically formulated for use in direct sunlight on automotive paints. The sun, or more specifically, the heat created by sunlight will increase surface temperature of the finish and make any product more difficult to work with and affect the performance of the product dramatically. Meguiar's always recommends working on a cool surface in the shade. We understand that when doing mobile detailing work, this isn't always possible, one solution is to do what Joe of Superior Shine Mobil Auto Detailing does and that is to use a portable canopy when working in direct sunlight.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PortableCanopy.jpg

You can check out Joe's most excellent before and after write-up on how he removed the swirls in the finish of the black BMW using Meguiar's compounds, polishes and waxes in the below thread. (If the below makeover doesn't knock your socks off, nothing will!)

BMW 745il Extreme Make-Over (http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=253)



Also do they hide swirl marks?

Meguiar's compounds, paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes all use Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive Technology. When used correctly, the diminishing abrasive technology Meguiar's has pioneered since 1901 and continues to improve today, will do two things,

1. Remove the below surface defects, swirls, sanding marks, etchings, oxidation, etc.
2. Remove their own marks as they reduce in size and polish out
like i like to wash the car with a sponge after compound and polish just with water to remove all the dust left by compounding and polishing, and then after that i glaze it and protect it with a pure wax or polymer.(depending on the color)

I been detailing for 2 years started with a rotary buffer burning some paints :P but well i have worked on 2 detail shops and a mobile detail, and i got some experience from there, also by doing some side jobs. I don't burn paint anymore :)


I would recommend reading the below two threads in the Hot Topics (http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=80) because they discuss in detail working what can and what cannot be done with a rotary buffer as far as creating a swirl free finish.

Need HELP! - How to avoid holograms? (http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4929)

How to avoid swirls and holograms? (http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4966)

In the end, in order to guarantee a completely swirl free finish on a dark colored paint in bright lights, you're going to need to re-polish each panel either by hand or with a dual action polisher to insure any remaining minor swirls induced by the direct drive circular contact between your pad of choice on a rotary buffer and the paint are completely removed. That, or use a coating or two of wax to insure any remaining holograms or swirls are eliminated.

Read the above two threads as there is a lot of good information in them that would not be efficient to try to re-post into this thread.

Here is one example of a selection of products you can start out with when switching over to Meguiar's from 3M. This is not you're only option, but I'm trying to keep it simple with only a few products for you to experiment with.

The M84 Compound Power Cleaner is an easy product to use with a lot of play time. It is formulated to be used with foam pads, not wool pads, so you can avoid using wool and thus avoid instilling wool fiber swirls.

The M80 Speed Glaze is a light cleaner/polish that will remove fine swirls with our W-8006 polishing pad. The key to making this product remove any leftover swirls from the M84 Compound Power Cleaner is to make sure you buff the M84 completely so that you have broken all of the diminishing abrasives down completely. This is the trick to not leaving behind any deeper swirls with Meguiar's compounds. (Don't buff to a dry buff however).

The M80 Speed Glaze is also easy to work with, offers a lot of play time, and easy to wipe off. You can then also use it with the dual action polisher to insure there are no remaining swirls. M80 Speed Glaze produces a very, very, clear and glossy finish, perfect for applying your LSP to.

Again, the below recommendations are not the only products or method of tackling every car, but it is a system that will work on most cars that you will come across and 99.9% of the time, it will produce professional results you can be proud of and your customers will love you for and recommend you to their friends.

It's also the system I used to remove the swirls on this clearcoated Corvette and restore a swirl-free, crystal clear finish.

1999 Corvette - Remove Swirls and Scratches (http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218)


~~~~~~~~~


First Step Products and Process
Rotary Buffer for removing serious below surface defects,

Compound Power Cleaner (http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-paint-cleaners-compounds/Compound-Power-Cleaner)

Solus
May 19th, 2005, 09:42 AM
Mike thank you very much for all the information, i'm really impressed on how you took the time to explain me everything, and how infromative was all that, i saw the vette and also the BMW they look terrific, hehe but as always i got one more question, what is meant by product #66? i think superior shine used with a PC after DACP with red pad on the BMW.

Again Thanks, and i got the NXT paste Wax i really loved on my old black GTi :).

Now im gonna buy#80, #84, #85 and #83 to use them with the foam pads, i just have yellow orange white and black pads, maybe i'll be able to buy the red one from Meguiar's :P.

Mike Phillips
May 19th, 2005, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Solus
Mike thank you very much for all the information, I'm really impressed on how you took the time to explain me everything, and how informative was all that, i saw the vette and also the BMW they look terrific, hehe but as always i got one more question, what is meant by product #66? i think superior shine used with a PC after DACP with red pad on the BMW.

M66 is a powerful one-step cleaner/wax that can be applied by hand, dual action polisher, orbital buffer or rotary buffer.

Quick Detailer (http://meguiars.com/estore/product_detailpage.cfm?product=Quick-Detailer&sku=M-66)

http://meguiars.com/estore/images/product_m66.gif


Again Thanks, and i got the NXT paste Wax i really loved on my old black GTi :) .

Now I'm gonna buy#80, #84, #85 and #83 to use them with the foam pads, i just have yellow orange white and black pads, maybe I'll be able to buy the red one from Meguiar's :P.

Just to note, the M85 is formulated for use with a wool pad.

M84 use with foam
M85 use with wool

Mike

Solus
May 19th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Is #66 the same or almost the same as #80? Or what is the difference between them?, on the sticker it says the same grade of agresiveness

travisdecpn
May 19th, 2005, 05:35 PM
#66 is a simple one-step polish/wax. #80 is a polish that adds very minimal protection. The physical characteristics of the products are also very different. #80 is somewhat thicker, sometimes #66 can be very thin or watery. If you are doing a wash and wax #66 would be a good choice to provide a decent amount of protection. With #80 you will need to follow with an LSP.

Solus
May 19th, 2005, 05:43 PM
Oh thank you Travis right at the time i was gonna buy it :P

Solus
May 19th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Who has a coupon code that wanna share with me? im buying too much stuff lol this is addictive

JeffM
May 19th, 2005, 06:23 PM
FWIW, PI2 RC is said to have cancerous ingredients, and it dusts like crazy, toss it.

Solus
May 19th, 2005, 07:13 PM
How would you describe to some one that doesnt know anything about poilsh wax not even paint jobs on a profesional way

1st To impress him and let him know what is it
2nd To dont let him with any question
3rd To let you look profesional and that you got some wisdom on the subject.

I tried to explain to my friend that got his jetta painted what was orange peel, but he didnt get it at all, the painter left orange peel on his car and he didnt buff it so now he want to charge him 500 bucks to sand it and buff it.

So i told him that i will do it for less money and i was trying to explain him why after a paint job theres orange peel, but i think i didnt even have a certain answer, so there i am trying to tell him what was it, but he didnt get it and i didnt know how to explain it and i dont want that ever happen again.

I mean he is my friend everything is okey but what about if a customer asks me, what i would tell him?

So who has a pro definition for that?

travisdecpn
May 19th, 2005, 07:28 PM
Removing orange peel can be a very intense and difficult job. Sanding with 3000 or 4000 grit paper is necessary to level the paint. Leveling the surface is what you are trying to do, orange peel is the contrast between high/low areas on the surface. After you have wetsanded, you will need a rotary buffer with #84 Compound power cleaner and a wool pad to remove the uniform scatches you have instilled during sanding. This levels the sanding marks creating optical clarity. The final step is to remove any hazing left by #84 with #83 via polishing pad on a rotary. Finally you can apply #80 and your LSP to protect the finish.

Sometimes if the orange peel isn't too bad, you may just want to live with it, many new vehicles have it from the factory anyways and there is always the potential of removing too much surface material and buring through the clearcoat. If you haven't wetsanded before, I would allocate a panel or hood to use for practice before you take it to someone's new finish.

Solus
May 19th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Oh thank you travis but i think i didnt mean good my question, i have sanded, i just dont know why there orange peel how i can explain it profesionaly to a customer letting him now that i know how to level the surface sanding and buffing it out.

what and why is orange peel after painting or i dont know how to make the question... Oh well thanks very much on telling me how to remove them with Meguiras products, i was thinking on use #85 to cut it fast, i was gonna sand with 2000 grit and after #85 it was gonna be followed with #84 red pad and then #80 and wax.

Tim Lingor
May 19th, 2005, 08:18 PM
Hey Solus,

Just to chime in....

Meguiar's #85 Diamond Cut is designed to be used with a wool pad. Meg's #84 is designed to be used with a foam pad, usually the W-7000 Cutting Pad. Either of the above products are to be used with the rotary buffer only as Mike pointed out in his detailed post.

As for wet sanding, it is not as easy as it sounds. It is very easy to sand right through the finish (clear coat) and into the base coat. There are many many techniques that must be learnt before attempting. Further, leveling orange peel depends on the amount of clear on the surface (# of coats), the severity of the orange peel, when it was painted, etc... You must use the proper sanding block in order to prevent your fingers from leaving grooves in the paint. Special sanding papers (like Meg's Unigrit) must be used to avoid "tracers". Finally, it is difficult to blend areas with more or less orange peel. You need to work the entire car to the same level. Otherwise, "waves" on the paint will start to be visible.

Just some thoughts.... :)

Tim

travisdecpn
May 19th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Sorry about that misinformation, I thought that #84 could be used with a wool pad as well.

Tim Lingor
May 19th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by travisdecpn
Sorry about that misinformation, I thought that #84 could be used with a wool pad as well.

Hey Travis,

No worries! :) That is why boards like this exist, to help one another!! :xyxthumbs

Tim

Solus
May 20th, 2005, 09:53 PM
Hi guys i got another question, i dont know i think by reading more and more on the forum hehe i get sometimes confuse, about the microscopic diminishing abrasive particles that are found on the #80 products and the clasic line, so lets say i cant use #4 to remove defects on a clearcoated paint with the effectiveness as it would perform #84? because of the microscopic diminishing particles?

What are the uses of #4 for you Mike and the uses for #84?

Im a bit confused.
:P This questions were developed by reading a thread about removing junk form windows with #4, that it was better using #4 than #84, so i was like would that happen to the single stage paints and the clearcoted ones? i dont know really what is the diff. sorry :(

Mike Phillips
May 21st, 2005, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by Solus
What are the uses of #4 for you Mike and the uses for #84?

I'm a bit confused.

:P This questions were developed by reading a thread about removing junk form windows with #4, that it was better using #4 than #84, so i was like would that happen to the single stage paints and the clearcoated ones? i dont know really what is the diff. sorry :(

If possible, you should try to attend one of our detailing classes here in Irvine on Saturday. Today's would have been a good one.

One of the differences between M04 and M84 is the type of diminishing abrasive they use. If you read this thread,

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4930

It discusses why M04 works better to remove the gunk off glass whereas M84 does not. It has to do with the size of the diminishing abrasive in the M04 enabling it to cut into and remove the gunk that build up on glass over time where as the microscopic diminishing abrasives that you cannot easily feel in the M84 doesn't offer this ability. This applies to glass. On paint, it's an entirely different ball game and generally speaking M84 is more aggressive and more effective at removing defects with a rotary buffer on both clearcoats and non-clearcoats. The best way to learn and understand this would be to purchase one of each and try them out, or attend one of our Saturday detailing classes and I'll show you first hand.

Solus
May 21st, 2005, 11:51 AM
How close is Irvin from San Francisco?

Mike Phillips
Sep 25th, 2006, 08:58 AM
***Bump***