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Top Gear
May 25th, 2015, 07:04 PM
It might seem obvious to some of you, but after hours of searching MOL and Google, it's not so obvious, and quite frustrating to find out for sure, definitively, really and truly, honest to goodness, and "we know because we make the stuff" factory info on which Meguiar's products from any line actually contain any amount of carnauba, or harder still, which are specifically intended to maintain/boost a carnauba-based wax finish. Some of them we all know, because at least it says so on the bottle, such as Gold Class Carnauba Wax or Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax. Others seem to fall into the "myths and confusion" category, such as Gold Class Quik Detailer, Ultimate Wash & Wax Anywhere, and others.

For example, some say D115 is the same or similar to UWWA and both contain carnauba, yet nothing "Ultimate" contains carnauba according to others. For another example, being a carnauba guy, I do NOT want to detail, quick wax, shampoo, or waterless/rinseless wash my hard-earned carnauba finish with any non-carnauba last touch products that are not intended for boosting carnauba-based finishes. There are so many variations of Ultimate this and pro-version of Ultimate that in the various lines, but there is no official info I can find on which products really do contain carnauba, and which are The Best Choices for maintaining a carnauba-based wax finish.

Please, no theory, should be, thinks, or guesses. Some lists I can find on MOL are from older threads, pre-dating or just not including newer products, while some info is on other sites and cannot be trusted (this goes for the aggressiveness of SMAT products as well, btw). So, I'm asking for The Last Word on carnauba finishing products for 2015 :)

Thanks in advance!

simiglen
May 25th, 2015, 07:18 PM
Below is the link for the meguiars msds which shows most of the ingredients. It is for Australia, but should be similar.

http://www.meguiars.com.au/msds/

Good luck

Top Gear
May 26th, 2015, 12:01 PM
Thanks, but did you read my OP? "Should be" isn't good enough ;) That list is lacking in many of the products discussed, anyway.

The Guz
May 26th, 2015, 01:29 PM
You know who should have that list for you. You might get a faster response.

Michael Stoops
Internet Technical Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.
(800) 854-8073 xt 3875
mstoops@meguiars.com

Top Gear
May 26th, 2015, 02:06 PM
Ha! ;) Thanks Michael. I know he will. I thought it could be posted here to help others.

Michael Stoops
May 26th, 2015, 02:45 PM
Waxes with carnauba:

Gold Class Carnauba Plus
Deep Crystal Carnauba
ColorX
M66 Quick Detailer
White Wax
Black Wax
Cleaner Wax
M26 High Tech Yellow Wax
M20 Polymer Sealant
D151 Paint Reconditioning Creme
D301 DA Finishing Wax
M305 Ultra Finishing Durable Glaze


Washes with carnauba:

Ultimate Wash & Wax
Ultimate Wash & Wax Anywhere
D115 Rinse Free Express Wash & Wax


Quick detail sprays with carnauba:

None


Quick waxes with carnauba:

Quik Wax
Gold Class Quik Wax
Ultimate Quik Wax
D156 Synthetic Express Spray Wax



Before we discuss this any further, let's look at the word that seems almost taboo for the carnauba lovers out there. Oh, and Top Gear, we are NOT singling you out here as there are countless car guys who swear by carnauba waxes and couldn't be persuaded to switch to a full synthetic for any reason. You, sir, are most definitely not alone!! That word? Polymer (gasp!!). OK, for something to be classified as a "polymer" it needs nothing more than to fit this rather broad definition: "a substance that has a molecular structure consisting chiefly or entirely of a large number of similar units bonded together, e.g., many synthetic organic materials used as plastics and resins." (thank you, Google) Yep, that's an enormous family of material. Styrofoam is composed of a polymer structure, and basically so is deoxyribonucleic acid (yes, DNA). And DNA is, of course, the stuff inside us that determines what each of us, individually, looks like (among other things). Nobody is going to confuse the properties of styrofoam with those of DNA and yet...... both are polymers.

Now, for the hard core carnauba guy the big question is in what percentage is the carnauba mixed with other ingredients, including synthetic polymers that may or may not provide the majority of the desired characteristics of the product. For example, there are polymers of some sort in virtually all of our waxes, but as has been discussed in the past the word "polymer" is an incredibly broad, sweeping term. Sometimes the polymer(s) in a product are there for nothing more than ease of application or removal (sometimes simply in the form of a polysiloxanes of some sort - yes, silicone) and nothing more. Further, some silicones are fantastic gloss enhancers and others, not so much. Which ones are used is determined by the design intent of the product. For example, D155 Last Touch contains a pretty solid load of gloss enhancing silicones, which is why so many people love the gloss it provides. But it contains neither carnauba wax nor the hydrophobic polymers found in products like Ultimate Quik Detailer, Ultimate Quik Wax, NXT Tech Wax 2.0 or Ultimate Wax, among others.

Looking at the group of waxes that listed above that do contain carnauba, each also contains other ingredients (of course!) that make the carnauba usable in the first place (solvents - some of which could even be polymers in and of themselves [how's that for confusing the situation, huh???]); ingredients that make the product easier to use; products that help to enhance gloss. For example, we consider Gold Class Carnauba Plus to be a "polish/wax" since it also contains some polishing oils not terribly different from those found in M07 Show Car Glaze. It is possible that at least some of those oils could be in the form of a polymer. Deep Crystal Carnauba and M26 are what we call "pure waxes", meaning they contain no polish but also no cleaning ability.

In each of those waxes, however, the primary form of protection - and the primary visual appearance - is down to the carnauba content. Products like Ultimate Wash & Wax Anywhere or Ultimate Quik Wax get the majority of their protection from the polymers used. Any carnauba content in them is secondary, really. The extreme water beading they create is also down to the polymers in them, specifically those water fearing (hydrophobic) polymers added to their formulation that are missing from products like Gold Class, M26 and even M20.

So what is the hard core carnauba lover to do? Well, we made Gold Class Quik Detailer and Gold Class Quik Wax specifically to compliment Gold Class Carnauba Plus wax. Probably the most common descriptor given to carnauba waxes is the darkening of the paint (or deepening of the paint, wetness of the paint, depth - anything having to do with that deep appearance given to darker colors). So the polymers selected for use in GCQD are those that continue to enhance that look. The polymers used in GCQW, plus the actual carnauba in it, also are chosen for their ability to enhance that property. We've even prepared test panels using side by side by side sections of Quik Wax, Gold Class Quik Wax, and Ultimate Quik Wax. The GCQW section looked darker than the other two, but once you got them wet the UQW side shed water like a duck - noticeably better than the GCQW did. And that's really all down to the selected polymers in the two products.

There really is no "right" or "wrong" combination here. We all like what we like, and we fully understand anyone's desire to stay within a certain product mix or to strive for the maximum result of the look they individually desire. Heck, we not only understand it, we applaud it!!! Come on, that's practically the definition of "passion", right?

RPPM
May 26th, 2015, 03:06 PM
So Michael, ColorX and M66 do not contain carnauba correct?

Michael Stoops
May 26th, 2015, 03:29 PM
So Michael, ColorX and M66 do not contain carnauba correct?
Oh geez...... too often there are too many distractions in the office and I miss something!!! My bad; these do indeed contain at least some carnauba and I've updated my original list to reflect that. Thanks for keeping me honest (if a bit embarrassed!).

davey g-force
May 26th, 2015, 03:35 PM
Good info, thanks Mike (Stoops). :)

Top Gear
May 26th, 2015, 03:48 PM
Thanks, Michael! :bow

These many details are hard to assemble for those of us who don't know all the products inside and out, so thanks for your post. I'm definitely okay with polymers, so don't worry. I like that many of your products blend the "best of both worlds" approaches :)

I'm surprised to see Xpress Synthetic Spray Wax and UQW on the list - hence the myths and confusion aspect - as I've read otherwise about them. As you know, I've been in dealing with high-humidity and wild daily humidity swings in the South, and I've also changed to DAMF. The humidity swings cause streaking and wipe holograms, and the nightly condensation on the paint bonds contaminants. Also, I love the "blue" look of DAMF even more than I loved the "Gold Class" look. So, it looks like I could use D156 "Synthetic" Xpress Spray Wax as a D301-matching way to replace Gold Class Quick Wax, as both contain some carnauba, however, it is said to be the same as UQW, so perhaps I can beg your indulgence on that a bit longer. How alike or different are XSW, UQW, and GCQW, for example, in maintaining a carnauba-based finish? Of course, one is bulk, but aside from that I wonder if XSW is better for my DAMF finish than GCQW, or if there's really no difference, etc. Perhaps I've assumed too much difference between the lines and the need to "match" a look?

Again, thanks for your answer!

The Guz
May 26th, 2015, 04:05 PM
Great info Mr. Stoops.


Oh geez...... too often there are too many distractions in the office and I miss something!!! My bad; these do indeed contain at least some carnauba and I've updated my original list to reflect that. Thanks for keeping me honest (if a bit embarrassed!).

We are all human. Nothing to be embarrassed about. Was it Jason that distracted you?

Michael Stoops
May 27th, 2015, 08:33 AM
I'm surprised to see Xpress Synthetic Spray Wax and UQW on the list - hence the myths and confusion aspect - as I've read otherwise about them.
And this directly relates to the discussion about how much wax, which polymers, etc. Yes, there is carnauba in these, but there isn't much at all.


As you know, I've been in dealing with high-humidity and wild daily humidity swings in the South, and I've also changed to DAMF. The humidity swings cause streaking and wipe holograms, and the nightly condensation on the paint bonds contaminants. Also, I love the "blue" look of DAMF even more than I loved the "Gold Class" look. This may call for some experimentation on your part to see which wax performs better under these conditions, based on your application process, normal drying time, etc. You may find that NXT Tech Wax 2.0 (a synthetic) is easier to deal with in higher humidity, or you may find M26 (primarily carnauba) easier to work with. A lot will depend on how thick/thin you're applying, how bad the humidity is when you apply, how long you wait to wipe off, etc. Unfortunately we can't be as specific as to recommend X number of minutes dry time for X% relative humidity at X degrees F.


So, it looks like I could use D156 "Synthetic" Xpress Spray Wax as a D301-matching way to replace Gold Class Quick Wax, as both contain some carnauba, however, it is said to be the same as UQW, so perhaps I can beg your indulgence on that a bit longer. How alike or different are XSW, UQW, and GCQW, for example, in maintaining a carnauba-based finish? Of course, one is bulk, but aside from that I wonder if XSW is better for my DAMF finish than GCQW, or if there's really no difference, etc. Perhaps I've assumed too much difference between the lines and the need to "match" a look?

Again, thanks for your answer!Honestly, this is almost a splitting hairs scenario. XSW and UQW are virtually identical other than the aroma. As mentioned in my previous post, GCQW will actually darken dark colored paints more than the other two, but the other two will provide far greater hydrophobic properties. If you're chasing that "carnauba look", go with GCQW. If the car sits outside a lot and you want the hydrophobic effect, go with one of the other two. Something tells us that you're going for the carnauba look, so GCQW would be our recommendation. But as noted earlier, there is no right or wrong answer here. The products are all interchangeable as far as basic function goes (is it a quick detailer or a spray wax, etc) and the final visual appearance, subtle though it may be to some, is a purely personal choice.


Great info Mr. Stoops.

We are all human. Nothing to be embarrassed about. Was it Jason that distracted you?LOL!!! No, Jason is not to blame, at least not entirely!

Top Gear
May 27th, 2015, 09:30 AM
Honestly, this is almost a splitting hairs scenario. XSW and UQW are virtually identical other than the aroma. As mentioned in my previous post, GCQW will actually darken dark colored paints more than the other two, but the other two will provide far greater hydrophobic properties. If you're chasing that "carnauba look", go with GCQW. If the car sits outside a lot and you want the hydrophobic effect, go with one of the other two.
Thanks, that helps greatly. It's easy to overthink these things and get confused by all the options and advice. I think I'll stay with what I'm using, GCQD and GCQW, but when I get a chance, I'll be happy to try others. Mainly, it's awesome to know definitively and for sure how carnauba is used in the various products you've listed!


...Something tells us that you're going for the carnauba look...
Did that come through? ;) I may have mentioned it, lol.

Bandit Rich
May 31st, 2015, 06:58 AM
I too am going for that carnauba look. The first time I tried Gold Class I was blown away. I used to use NXT and thought it was awesome but once I saw what GC did to my car's single stage no clear coat paint THAT WAS IT. :drool1 My car is a garage queen that is only used for cruise nights and car shows and the rare occasional joyride - actually not true - I travel all over New England to events so I get plenty of joyrides out of it. :burnoff
I don't post much because I can't help but feel it comes off like I am bragging but if I can help out someone else who's trying to go for the ultimate carnauba look I will start typing. I too spend a lot of time on this forum perusing and also tend to overthink things but if what I do gets these kind of results on my car's paint it will definitely help anyone with a dark colored car. :secret1 Before I go any further I want to say I am just an average working joe and do all my own detailing. I bought this car right before the prices started going through the roof because of all the guys my age going through midlife crises. But it isn't a midlife crisis for me; the first car I bought when I got my license was one of these and this is the fifth one I've owned and my 2nd Bandit. I used to sell one and turn around and get another - all in really nice shape - without even thinking about it. Boy are those days gone forever! TAs needing full restoration are selling for more now than I bought this one for with the resto 99% done!:wow1
Gold Class Car Wash, Ultimate Polish, Gold Class Carnauba Plus. I only have to wash & wax once a year because my car only sees nice sunny weather and is maintained with GCQD & GCQW. UP gets rid of the occasional swirl and for scratches it's either ScratchX or UC. I have used M101 in the past when UC wasn't quite up to the task. All 3 of these do cause my paint to haze but UP gets rid of it and brings back the gloss.
I tried skipping the UP one time when I gave my car its annual bath because of the high polish load in GCCP to save myself some work but my car's paint lacked the depth I had become accustomed to.
I also tried using M26 after UP because it has been said a pure wax will give better results but once again IMO the depth just wasn't there.
After these 2 experiments I believe the combo of UP and GCCP is unbeatable and have absolutely no intentions of trying Black Wax - I read all the reviews and everyone who tried it said it had hardly any swirl - removal ability.
I believe my polish - overload strategy is the secret to the ultimate carnauba look.
I took my car to the 1st car show of the season; a huge All Pontiac show. There were a dozen other cars in the same class mine was in including one identical to mine - even the same year - with a much newer paint job ( mine was restored over FIFTEEN YEARS AGO! ).
I could tell by looking at my car's twin the owner used a synthetic wax on it.
When the awards were given out my car took second - to a literal trailer queen - it was brought to the show on a trailer, rolled onto the show field - and back on the trailer when it was over. :rolleyes: My car's twin didn't even place.
I have no desire to own a trailer queen - what fun is a car you don't drive? I'd rather drive my car AND win trophies! :burnoff:dp:
http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u635/BanditRich/panerabreadcruise_zps2f454c2e.jpg (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/BanditRich/media/panerabreadcruise_zps2f454c2e.jpg.html)
And I have discovered a way to save myself some work. I didn't think it was fair UQD has wax boosting ability and GCQD doesn't; especially since ULW lasts a heckuvalot longer than my wax of choice. My car doesn't see rain but it is sitting in the hot sun 6 - 7 hrs every time I go to a car show.
I took a generic 32 oz spray bottle & poured in 50/50 GCQD & GCQW. It works awesome and cuts my pre - show prep in half.
Every time I'm at a show or cruise people always comment about how amazing my car looks and they ask me how long ago it was repainted. They all think I'm lying when I tell them. :pc
So Mr. Stoops - any possibility of updating GCQD to include carnauba hint hint nudge nudge? And here's my greatest argument in support of this. :coolgleam
http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u635/BanditRich/Mass%20Firebirds%20Spring%20Kickoff%202015_zpsqshdyu9f.jpg (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/BanditRich/media/Mass%20Firebirds%20Spring%20Kickoff%202015_zpsqshdyu9f.jpg.html)

davey g-force
May 31st, 2015, 11:37 AM
^^ I liked reading your post. Thanks for sharing your story and experiences.


I didn't think it was fair UQD has wax boosting ability and GCQD doesn't

I don't think this is correct. They both still boost your wax, it's just that UQD has the hydrophobic properties, whereas GCQD doesn't. :)

Bandit Rich
May 31st, 2015, 11:59 AM
According to Mike Stoops there is no carnauba in GCQD; here's him saying this - scroll down - http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?52290-Gold-Class-Premium-Quik-Detailer/page2
For my car, Gold Class is the best. :drool1
http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u635/BanditRich/2323232327Ffp53395nu3246563WSNRCG323834277nu0mrj_zps3a29c09d.jpg (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/BanditRich/media/2323232327Ffp53395nu3246563WSNRCG323834277nu0mrj_zps3a29c09d.jpg.html)

The Guz
May 31st, 2015, 01:21 PM
There is still gloss enhancers in the QD. If you want the carnuaba then just hit with the QW. As long as the paint is clean.

davey g-force
May 31st, 2015, 02:20 PM
Yeah, even though it doesn't contain carnauba, the GCQD will still boost wax protection. At least that's my understanding...

Top Gear
May 31st, 2015, 02:43 PM
Rich, your beautiful TA takes me back to my gradeschool/high school days :) I wanted that car badly back in the day, especially with Sally Field along, and her hair flying up around the t-tops. Good times.

Anyway, adding protection with polymers alone is not the same as re-waxing (ie. boosting) with a carnauba finishing product. This is the whole point of matching finishing products to the carnauba look. To me, GCQD is very useful as an APC on my carnauba-based finish, but it's just not a last touch product (in my humidity, anyway) because it streaks and clouds and has to be cleaned up itself. It will WW clean without ruining the carnauba look (real or imagined). I then can re-wax with a carnauba-based finishing product, GCQW, usually after a wash. At a show, I run the risk of streaks and clouds with either of these products, so I use them very sparingly in the field.

They are also great on trips, such as cleaning bug bodies off the front clip, and re-waxing, when I know it's not going to be 100% (without a wash).

Top Gear
Jun 2nd, 2015, 11:05 AM
^^ Okay, based on this and other discussions, I've finally gave up the ghost and tried Ultimate Wash & Wax Anywhere. All I can say is I was very skeptical, but I'm freakin' wowed and blown away! I just did not think it was possible to have such an easy, non-streaking, non-clouding, carnauba-enriched cleaning and re-waxing result in the humid Southern weather I deal with. This really does change everything for me, because where I always fell down was in daily cleaning, travel washing, and pre-show touch-ups, which resulted in streaks, wipe holograms, clouds, and ultimately, more swirls to correct. Now I can just leave GCQD for dressing, clay lube, etc, and GCQW for re-waxing after a full wash, and let UWWA (essentially D115 in a "sampler" bottle) do the daily regimen work for me. Just. Wow. :)

davey g-force
Jun 2nd, 2015, 11:14 AM
Good news! It really is a great product.

Sometimes it's worth trying new things. :)

Top Gear
Jun 2nd, 2015, 12:18 PM
Yep, very worth it. In a month's time, with DAMF and some new maintenance tricks, I've got a whole new bag :)

Eldorado2k
Jun 3rd, 2015, 07:42 PM
Glad to hear you like UWWA. It's a great maintenance product and sometimes just takes a few minutes as long as your car's not too dirty.. I like going outside just before sunrise and giving the car a quik spray & wipe down. Or after dinner as the sun sets. It's amazing how fast it can be done, and how great the car looks afterwards:)

davey g-force
Jun 3rd, 2015, 09:29 PM
I like going outside just before sunrise and giving the car a quik spray & wipe down. Or after dinner as the sun sets.

I like your dedication - I often do the same thing!

I usually have to sneak out though - so I don't get accused of spending too much time cleaning the car. :D

Horace01
Jun 4th, 2015, 03:13 AM
I love the look of GCCP too. Unfortunately we don't get GCQW or GCQD here in Australia so when the need arises I use UWWA and UQW.

The depth of colour really works for me.

Bandit Rich
Jun 4th, 2015, 10:51 AM
I thought UWWA had Ultimate Wax (synthetic) in it not carnauba? :scratchhead1 It says it has HYDROPHOBIC wax protection? If so, Top Gear you should go over your beautiful car with GCQW after you use it
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?52291-Ultimate-Wash-amp-Wax-Anywhere
http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u635/BanditRich/may16cruise20002_zps2358c449.jpg (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/BanditRich/media/may16cruise20002_zps2358c449.jpg.html)

Eldorado2k
Jun 4th, 2015, 11:52 AM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Lol.

Top Gear
Jun 4th, 2015, 06:20 PM
I thought UWWA had Ultimate Wax (synthetic) in it not carnauba? :scratchhead1 It says it has HYDROPHOBIC wax protection? If so, Top Gear you should go over your beautiful car with GCQW after you use it...
Rich, it was news to me, too, and I do use GCQW for re-waxing, GCQD for dressing/lube/prep.

Check the list above posted by Michael Stoops. UWWA (D115 is the bulk Detailer version) and UWW both contain carnauba (UWW even says so on the bottle), despite being branded as "Ultimate" products (which many of us seem to associate with "anti-carnauba"). IMHO, Meguiar's puts that "Ultimate" label on way too many products, like Ultimate Black, Ultimate Wax, UWW, UWWA, and others. Also, the term "hydrophobic" can be applied to a great many products and chemicals, and the term "wax" should be used only for carnauba. But, I digress.

Both UWW and UWWA contain some carnauba, which for us carnauba guys means boosting, and for the synthetic guys, just means deeper gloss. For example, Gold Class liquid/paste Wax is also a blend of carnauba and synthetic polymers. Trust me, I was skeptical about UWWA, but I've used GCQD & GCQW to waterless wash and touch up, etc. UWWA is far superior for a "quik wash & wax" product with no streaking or clouding. It's changed everything for me from day to day, and I just can't believe how well it finishes with such easy effort :coolgleam

Eldorado2k
Jun 4th, 2015, 07:12 PM
I like this new guy.^ lmao:)

Bandit Rich
Jun 5th, 2015, 02:04 PM
Now that's why I'm on this forum every day because I'm always looking for something to help my detailing exploits. I didn't know UWWA had carnauba in it because it has Ultimate in the name. Will it give my car the same dark dark " black hole " look that I get from my 50/50 mix of GCQD & GCQW?
I went to the first show of the season and there was a car identical to mine in the same class but I could tell the owner used a synthetic wax on it. My car won a trophy and that one didn't; and I think the carnauba definitely gave my car the winning edge.
http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u635/BanditRich/Mass%20Firebirds%20Spring%20Kickoff%202015_zpsqshdyu9f.jpg (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/BanditRich/media/Mass%20Firebirds%20Spring%20Kickoff%202015_zpsqshdyu9f.jpg.html)

Top Gear
Jun 5th, 2015, 07:03 PM
Well, you need to try it and see what you think. UWWA/D115 is a spray cleaner-wax, and definitely gives me the "black hole" look I get from GCQW, and it requires less wiping than GCQW. Believe me, I would not rave about it here if it was just so-so meh. UWWA/D115 possibly doesn't have as much carnauba as GCQW, because it's trying to do everything in one wipe, and GCQW is best for a dedicated re-waxing on an already clean surface. So, if your car isn't dirty, you probably won't notice much difference between them.

Of the carnauba-centric and GC-centric finish products I have, I now use them like this:


Dress, Clay, Prep: GC Quik Detailer (syn, no carnauba)
Daily Wash & Wax: Ultimate Wash & Wax Anywhere/D115 (carnauba/syn)
Sudsy Wash: GC Shampoo (no carnauba, no syn)
Sudsy Wash & Wax: Ultimate Wash & Wax (carnauba/syn)
Post-Suds Re-Wax: GC Quik Wax (carnauba/syn)


So, it depends on what you need for the current situation :)

Eldorado2k
Jun 5th, 2015, 08:47 PM
@Top Gear. I've never tried Ultimate Wash & Wax Car Wash. Let me know what you think of it once you get a around to trying it a couple of times.

Top Gear
Jun 6th, 2015, 07:02 AM
I will. Despite all the rain early this week, I've had such success with UWWA I haven't needed to wash ;)

For years I used RainX and ArmourAll carnauba washes, so I know this one will be awesome. Unfortunately, using GC Shampoo seems to remove some layers of wax/polish - or at least, using the soaked wash mitt does - so between that and the cats-n-dogs rain it's essential to leave some protection behind with everything I do. Yet, I really like GC Shampoo, particularly that "Johnson's Baby Shampoo" scent that takes me back to the 70s, so I may keep using it as a first pass wash with UWW as a second - usually when I do wash, it really needs it. I did this a couple of weeks ago with GC followed by ArmourAll Wash & Wax. We'll see...

Eldorado2k
Jun 6th, 2015, 10:00 AM
Wash once.. Then wash once more?? And you wonder why you're removing wax?? Lol;p

I go across the paint with 1 side of the mitt using just the weight of the mitt, then turn it around and go over again using a bit more pressure to clean. And I sometimes think that's overdoing it. Lol.

The Guz
Jun 6th, 2015, 10:05 PM
One wash is all you need. Any wash is going to remove wax as the wax will start to break down from the elements. Especially from rain which really pounds on wax. D301 is not meant to be a durable wax. So what you are seeing with it is expected. I've read people seeing 1-2 months out of it. And they are not in Southern California.

Wash once and follow up with your QW. Boom you're done. Keep it simple. The more you touch the paint the more swirls you are going to install onto the paint.

Top Gear
Jun 7th, 2015, 08:44 AM
^^ Bingo. See, we can agree on something, Mike ;) I also agree with Eldo.

First of all, I just got a new wash mitt which is like twice as thick (demoting the other to wheels or pre-washing bugs off). So, I'm just talking about passing the mitt over using the weight of the water it holds, not much more pressure than that. Yet, on the nose of the car, if I've driven at speed at night, again, this is the South, so I can often have lots and lots of bug splats, and bonded bug bits will remain stuck on after the kind of super-light wash Eldo is talking about. There are other parts of the car that get dirtier, of course, and waving a mitt around just won't cut it. Hence 2, even 3 wash passes for some parts.

I'm sorry all this interferes with the ideal theory of lightest touch washing, but if you want the car clean where I live, you have to put some effort into it. Also, as I've said many times, one thunderstorm alone where I live will wash off a great amount of wax and polishing oils. In my DAMF thread, for example, I described how the next day after doing some correction, the rain washed off much of that protection. Can't blame that on a wash mitt or technique.

Now, I've noticed two key things during the months I've tried GC Shampoo by itself. First, it obviously contains no real protection, carnauba or otherwise, and that is noticeable in the resulting surface, but second, it's simply great for cleaning, often in one pass. The other carnauba washes I've used (remember, still haven't actually tried UWW) were not as good at actually cleaning as GC, but they left that faint carnauba protection behind. Also, not being born yesterday, I've known for a long time that wax gets washed/rained off very easily, no matter what wax or sealant someone is bragging about (or selling). So, putting all that together, I've found that a second lighter pass with the suds of a carnauba wash does the trick, while GC has already done the cleaning. I still have to test UWW to see how it compares when used by itself. If need be, I'm totally fine with doing two passes of one or both washes. Either way, I'll still re-wax with GCQW.

Also, UWWA now helps tremendously with this overall effort. Since I will be using UWWA many times over before needing a full wash, there will be some degree of carnauba boost as well as some degree of synthetic protection of the D301 finish which the wash mitt won't really affect as it would an otherwise untouched D301 surface. I say this because the other day we got a torrential thunderstorm after I'd applied UWWA and it was much more durable than I'd expected.

Eldorado2k
Jun 7th, 2015, 09:41 PM
Yup I agree. The protection left behind by UWWA is surprisingly effective.