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DanielM
Jul 27th, 2016, 08:12 AM
Besides longevity is there really a difference between coatings and sealants?

From my readings, I see many statements lowering the hype about coating such as "Hardness can help aid in some levels of protection, but on the scale of 1-3 microns which is the average thickness of a coating, it doesn't directly do much. There is little to no evidence that coating hardness plays a role in scratch resistance. " https://itsbetterwaxed.com/blogs/detailing-tips/84593412-do-ceramic-coatings-prevent-swirls.


I know coatings help washed induced marring due to less surface tension but doesn't a sealant do the same?


So my question is, if I don't mind applying a sealant every 4 months, does a coating provide any other benefits?

The Guz
Jul 27th, 2016, 08:40 AM
Yes it does. Coatings also protect better against chemicals, bird droppings. A car stays cleaner longer in between washes. Not to mention that a vehicle that is coated is easier to wash.

If the sealant is working out for you and you enjoy polishing more frequently, then stick to that.

DanielM
Jul 27th, 2016, 09:03 AM
Yes it does. Coatings also protect better against chemicals, bird droppings. A car stays cleaner longer in between washes. Not to mention that a vehicle that is coated is easier to wash.

If the sealant is working out for you and you enjoy polishing more frequently, then stick to that.

Doesn't that fall into the if I don't mind doing it more frequently it is the same? Like my sealant is known hold up for 8 months. If I reapply every 4 months, would it not do everything above equally as well?

My main concern is my car is street parked. So I am worried about people rubbing up on the car, tree branches, flying debris from moving cars etc. Will a coating offer better protection for those scenarios?

The Guz
Jul 27th, 2016, 09:30 AM
Doesn't that fall into the if I don't mind doing it more frequently it is the same? Like my sealant is known hold up for 8 months. If I reapply every 4 months, would it not do everything above equally as well?

To quote Mike Phillips find what you like and use it often. Coatings are not for everyone. Coatings are semi permanent and offer a longevity of about 2-5 years. Professional coatings can last up to 7-10 years. Another added benefit to a coating, is that one does not have to wax or spray wax it. Some coating manufacturers include sealants that have the same chemical make up as their coating to maintain it. For example cquartz and reload. Coatings still require some maintenance.


My main concern is my car is street parked. So I am worried about people rubbing up on the car, tree branches, flying debris from moving cars etc. Will a coating offer better protection for those scenarios?

Coatings will not protect from tree branches or flying debris. If you want to protect against that then consider paint protection film like xpel. Coatings are not miracle products and are not the end all be all.

DanielM
Jul 27th, 2016, 09:56 AM
To quote Mike Phillips find what you like and use it often. Coatings are not for everyone. Coatings are semi permanent and offer a longevity of about 2-5 years. Professional coatings can last up to 7-10 years. Another added benefit to a coating, is that one does not have to wax or spray wax it. Some coating manufacturers include sealants that have the same chemical make up as their coating to maintain it. For example cquartz and reload. Coatings still require some maintenance.

Coatings will not protect from tree branches or flying debris. If you want to protect against that then consider paint protection film like xpel. Coatings are not miracle products and are not the end all be all.

Thank you for the prompt response. The problem with "find what you like and use it often", is I like the best =) but I don't like to unnecessarily waste product.



manufacturers include sealants that have the same chemical make up as their coating to maintain it.


So that kind of takes away from the ease of coating no? I see many debates on the need for layering.

Last two question if you would be so kind:

1. Does a coating like opti-gloss stand up to a light abrasive polish? It would be great if it captures minor swirls and can be buffed while leaving my clear untouched.

2.Do you find coating live up to the hype of a mirror finish? The problem with many coatings is the paint must be stripped of all oils. Sealants allow and also have glazes that can be sealed in. I would think that would give a better shine no?

Top Gear
Jul 27th, 2016, 02:51 PM
IMO, so-called "sealants" (waxes by a synthetic name) and coatings are way over-hyped. 100% marketing claims can be powerful, but if a daily driver, your car will still get dirty, and you will still need to wash it and care for it. A coating does not magically keep it clean, and a sealant will not outlast any given wax when it comes to daily/weekly maintenance that must be done. Use a sealant happily if that's the "look" you want (bright gloss), but do not be fooled for a moment into thinking the paint has literally been "sealed". Any wax on the shelf will last just as long under the same conditions and with the right care. Coatings may "seal" the actual finish, sure, but that coating still gets filthy, looks dull, and needs to be cared for, just as much as the paint does. It's all pretty much hype, in my view. A great Meguiar's carnauba wax is all you need, and the finish will look so much better and natural (dark, wet gloss). The maintenance is still the same no matter what: Regular use of the duster, waterless wash, detailer, spray wax, and careful washing when you need it. I can and do go many months on end without having to break out the DA and re-wax, and in the meantime, the finish always has that Car Crazy Meguiar's carnauba look :)

The Guz
Jul 27th, 2016, 03:57 PM
Thank you for the prompt response. The problem with "find what you like and use it often", is I like the best =) but I don't like to unnecessarily waste product.


You may not like this answer but there is no best. If you are looking for a product that offers longer protection, more durability and better chemical resistance then go with a coating. If you like to polish often then a coating is a waste of time, product and money. This is where you stick with a carnauba or sealant.


So that kind of takes away from the ease of coating no? I see many debates on the need for layering.

I don't think so. A coating still needs to be washed. It's not a apply, set it and forget it type product. The idea behind is that surface contaminants are still going to get on the surface. Contaminants will hinder the sheeting and beading properties of the coating. A sealant made of the same chemical make up restores that beading and sheeting as people like to see that. Just because the beading and sheeting has been altered a bit, it does not mean it is not on the paint protecting it.

There are many folks who believe that a wax, sealant or spray wax applied to the top of a coating will protect the coating so it lasts even longer. That is an ongoing debate. But also note that a sealant or wax applied over the coating will alter the beading and sheeting to the properties of the topper.



1. Does a coating like opti-gloss stand up to a light abrasive polish? It would be great if it captures minor swirls and can be buffed while leaving my clear untouched.

The answer would be no. An abrasive polish will remove gloss coat. Defects (marring, swirls) will be in the coating. A polish will remove the coating.



Do you find coating live up to the hype of a mirror finish? The problem with many coatings is the paint must be stripped of all oils. Sealants allow and also have glazes that can be sealed in. I would think that would give a better shine no?


I am going to say yes. I have used gloss coat on 3 vehicles. It not only looks great. But with proper maintenance (washing) the vehicle will look great for a long time. There is a video on the rag company youtube channel which goes into detail on how to clay gloss coat without affecting it on the surface. I recommend you watch those videos.

You are correct. A coating needs to have the paint removed of all polishing oils from the surface for it to bond properly to the paint. If not, it will compromise the coating. Gloss comes from properly prepping the paint aka polishing. Glazes fill in minor imperfections but a glaze does not last long even if it is sealed by a sealant.

I have polished and coated all of these and they sure do look great. Their glossy appearance lasts much longer than a wax and sealant.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?64943-2015-Impala-LTZ-Paint-Correction-and-Coated-with-Optimum-Gloss-Coat#blC70IhsAvAuQaG3.97

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?64038-2010-Camaro#EIoiPHzEjq4I4I01.97

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?63932-2003-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-(Coated)#1AbY6saS3R6USfuZ.97

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?63210-2002-Camaro-Z28-Now-Coated#ofYtArOjdoCjxZ6L.97

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?63644-2002-Camaro-SS-Coated#VfeVXQe34JhpCdbi.97

I just completed a black 2002 Corvette that I coated with gloss coat. Write up coming soon but it looks amazing and has amazing gloss.

If you are looking for a coating to venture into, I would recommend gloss coat. It's is very easy to use and it is a great product. Check out episode 6 of the optimum synergy podcast.


IMO, so-called "sealants" (waxes by a synthetic name) and coatings are way over-hyped. 100% marketing claims can be powerful, but if a daily driver, your car will still get dirty, and you will still need to wash it and care for it. A coating does not magically keep it clean, and a sealant will not outlast any given wax when it comes to daily/weekly maintenance that must be done. Use a sealant happily if that's the "look" you want (bright gloss), but do not be fooled for a moment into thinking the paint has literally been "sealed". Any wax on the shelf will last just as long under the same conditions and with the right care. Coatings may "seal" the actual finish, sure, but that coating still gets filthy, looks dull, and needs to be cared for, just as much as the paint does. It's all pretty much hype, in my view. A great Meguiar's carnauba wax is all you need, and the finish will look so much better and natural (dark, wet gloss). The maintenance is still the same no matter what: Regular use of the duster, waterless wash, detailer, spray wax, and careful washing when you need it. I can and do go many months on end without having to break out the DA and re-wax, and in the meantime, the finish always has that Car Crazy Meguiar's carnauba look :)

They are not hype at all. Waxes, sealants and coatings all do what they are intended to do. Science has proved the longevity and durability of each product.

The Guz
Jul 27th, 2016, 07:46 PM
You may like this video as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdEPP-OnV9A

DanielM
Jul 27th, 2016, 08:58 PM
The answer would be no. An abrasive polish will remove gloss coat. Defects (marring, swirls) will be in the coating. A polish will remove the coating.

The Guz, I know I said one last question but this above quote intrigued me. So if I use a very light abrasive polish like swirlx, I could basically remove the swirled up coating and apply another coat without ever touching my clear?


I guess I thought it was hype when I see people who claim to paint correct 4x per year saying they will never need to correct again. Correct me if I am wrong but If you swirl clearcoat that bad, wouldn't you would swirl coating no?


Wow, those pictures look great. Are you able to use a DA buffer with coating or only hand application?

You are winning me over. Damn you!!! I just bought GG AIO sealant, so it would be useless since it has polish in it if I buy glosscoat.


I just wish it was cheaper like sealant because I am still new at this.

I really appreciate the replies to all my threads. I am new at this.

The Guz
Jul 27th, 2016, 11:13 PM
Gloss coat does cost more but in my opinion it's worth it considering it is now an up to 3 year coating. There are a few other coatings that are cost effective. Head over to autogeek and look at McKee's 37 paint coating or Duragloss. Both are easy to use. McKee's 37 is a forum favorite. I have also used Pinnacle Black Label paint coating which is very easy to use. There are quite a few.

I'm a pro gloss coat guy as it's so easy to use and it looks great with the proper prep. The fact that it is a flexible coating meaning it expands and contracts with the paint is another reason it won me over.

Most coatings are applied by hand. For example see this video on how easy it is to apply gloss coat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctFtza_jGxs

Pinnacle Black Label and McKee's 37 are sprayable coatings which are just as easily applied.

Say you need to touch up an area, you could simply polish that area and recoat it. For example if there was some sort of defect on a door, I would polish the entire door and recoat it. If you had a small polisher like the Rupes nano then I would just hit the small area that was touched up.

If you properly wash the car and maintain it properly you will not have to take a polisher to the paint. In theory the coating is the part that will get swirled.

You are correct any cleaner wax, compound or polish should not be used on a coating. Even clay could cause a problem as it is abrading the surface. This is different between all coatings.

I also like the optimum synergy with their products. Check out McKee's 37. It's quite affordable.

This video is for Pinnacle Black Label but the McKee's 37 uses the same application. Pinnacle Black Label is an up to 3 year coating and McKee's 37 is an up to 2 year coating. Both are similar in their chemical make up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flwBh6zz_5M

As much as I like sealants, I am pro coatings. I don't even use carnauba waxes anymore.

Top Gear
Jul 28th, 2016, 04:12 AM
...A coating still needs to be washed. It's not a apply, set it and forget it type product. The idea behind is that surface contaminants are still going to get on the surface. Contaminants will hinder the sheeting and beading properties of the coating.
That is an understatement. If you notice that in weatherless Los Angeles, imagine how pointless a coating is in the Southeast - not because it won't work as advertised, but because it must be cleaned just as vigilantly as a waxed paint, and that is its downfall. I think a coating would be great for a race car or show car that is not driven in the real world.


They are not hype at all. Waxes, sealants and coatings all do what they are intended to do. Science has proved the longevity and durability of each product.
Durability is not the important factor, though. If people use coatings in order to fool themselves into thinking they don't have to keep the car up, then yes, they will experience a long-lasting coat, but it will be dirty, grimy, dull-looking, etc. Since we're usually promoting constant maintenance, such as dusting, spray waxes, etc, and since that is required where there is lots of different weather, then the coating is just moving the problem of maintenance, not solving it. I'd also be seriously concerned about the breathability of the paint I'm trying to protect under that "seal" of a coating.

So, I think we're saying different things for different reasons. That a coating might last years on my car in pure theory is of no interest to me whatsoever, because I need the paint to breathe, and I need to keep the surface as clean as possible, which means that over time with regular maintenance, that expensive coating will be compromised, probably in months. If I lived where it's 70 degrees every day of the year and rarely rains, I might see this differently, but I don't. I have to deal with lots and lots of rain, pollen, dirt and grime, wild temp and humidity swings, and so on. This is why coatings are hype to me, which goes double for so-called sealants. I think if you spent a month or two trying to keep a car reasonably clean in the Southeast's weather, you'd see these products and strategies differently as well.

The Guz
Jul 28th, 2016, 09:38 AM
That is an understatement. If you notice that in weatherless Los Angeles, imagine how pointless a coating is in the Southeast - not because it won't work as advertised, but because it must be cleaned just as vigilantly as a waxed paint, and that is its downfall. I think a coating would be great for a race car or show car that is not driven in the real world.


Durability is not the important factor, though. If people use coatings in order to fool themselves into thinking they don't have to keep the car up, then yes, they will experience a long-lasting coat, but it will be dirty, grimy, dull-looking, etc. Since we're usually promoting constant maintenance, such as dusting, spray waxes, etc, and since that is required where there is lots of different weather, then the coating is just moving the problem of maintenance, not solving it. I'd also be seriously concerned about the breathability of the paint I'm trying to protect under that "seal" of a coating.

So, I think we're saying different things for different reasons. That a coating might last years on my car in pure theory is of no interest to me whatsoever, because I need the paint to breathe, and I need to keep the surface as clean as possible, which means that over time with regular maintenance, that expensive coating will be compromised, probably in months. If I lived where it's 70 degrees every day of the year and rarely rains, I might see this differently, but I don't. I have to deal with lots and lots of rain, pollen, dirt and grime, wild temp and humidity swings, and so on. This is why coatings are hype to me, which goes double for so-called sealants. I think if you spent a month or two trying to keep a car reasonably clean in the Southeast's weather, you'd see these products and strategies differently as well.

I don't have the patience to continue discussing your outlook on things. I will say this. If you enjoy using your carnauba wax then by all means continue using it. Michael Stoops has already made his comments clear to you a few times about sealants and waxes as well as some other forum members. I am not going there with you anymore.

To the op, coatings are great and have their place. Feel free to PM me with any other questions with regards to coatings.

Top Gear
Jul 28th, 2016, 01:06 PM
I don't have the patience to continue discussing your outlook on things.
Guz, please read what I actually wrote a bit more carefully. Just because something works for you in a relatively weatherless area, doesn't mean it works for everyone in the world. Are you trying to tell me that everywhere in the world has the same weather as SoCal? You'd be wrong. Are you trying to say weather doesn't matter regarding corrections, detailing and product selection? You'd be wrong again. As I've tried to explain to you many times, most of your advice is very SoCal, not universal or even helpful to those of us who do not live in year-round fair weather - that's a vast majority of Meguiar's customers, by the way. I'm not sure why you are so hostile to the facts of weather. I guarantee you it is not the position of Meguiar's to ignore weather factors, and Mr. Stoops has many times agreed that weather throws nearly every detailing theory out the window. Just because many SoCal methods and assumptions do not apply to Southeastern, Midwestern, Northern, Northwestern, Canadian, Latin American, European, Asian, South African weather, humidity, and heat and cold swings (in short, nearly all the inhabited world) is no reason to take it out on me over and over.

Nick Winn
Jul 28th, 2016, 02:05 PM
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DanielM
Jul 29th, 2016, 09:39 AM
That is an understatement. If you notice that in weatherless Los Angeles, imagine how pointless a coating is in the Southeast - not because it won't work as advertised, but because it must be cleaned just as vigilantly as a waxed paint, and that is its downfall. I think a coating would be great for a race car or show car that is not driven in the real world.


Durability is not the important factor, though. If people use coatings in order to fool themselves into thinking they don't have to keep the car up, then yes, they will experience a long-lasting coat, but it will be dirty, grimy, dull-looking, etc. Since we're usually promoting constant maintenance, such as dusting, spray waxes, etc, and since that is required where there is lots of different weather, then the coating is just moving the problem of maintenance, not solving it. I'd also be seriously concerned about the breathability of the paint I'm trying to protect under that "seal" of a coating.

So, I think we're saying different things for different reasons. That a coating might last years on my car in pure theory is of no interest to me whatsoever, because I need the paint to breathe, and I need to keep the surface as clean as possible, which means that over time with regular maintenance, that expensive coating will be compromised, probably in months. If I lived where it's 70 degrees every day of the year and rarely rains, I might see this differently, but I don't. I have to deal with lots and lots of rain, pollen, dirt and grime, wild temp and humidity swings, and so on. This is why coatings are hype to me, which goes double for so-called sealants. I think if you spent a month or two trying to keep a car reasonably clean in the Southeast's weather, you'd see these products and strategies differently as well.


This was one reason I was hesitant to buy coating over my sealant. I would just be moving the problem. Instead of maintaining my clear, I would be maintaining my Coat with the same vigilance.

Both of you make great points. Head spinning.

Top Gear
Jul 31st, 2016, 06:21 AM
I think it all depends on the owner, car, weather/region, and habits. If I lived in the Southwest, with no other changes, I'd have different habits, cleaning less, etc. However, I live where there is a LOT of wildly different weather, and that means very frequent cleanup, wiping with UWWA and/or GCQW and more frequent or potentially needed bucket washing. It also means more scratches and road rash because the roads are dirtier and wetter.

I've driven all over the Southwest, including LA and Vegas (where what seems like a majority of MOL posters live), and it's just different. In those areas, there is no weather to speak of (by comparison). It's very, very dry, and dust itself is very dry, easily blown off. I can imagine living there with a DD and going many weeks at a stretch using nothing but my California Duster. No wonder it's so easy for MOLers in the Southwest to stay swirl-free. However, Meguiar's, everywhere outside the Southwest deserts and SoCal Coast you'll find a very different daily driver reality. Dust itself can be sticky because it's not actually dry. We have deep humidity, and wild swings of temperature and moisture cycles. Anyone who flies from, say LA to Atlanta, will literally feel what I'm talking about. Your car will be covered in dew most mornings, frost in Winter, one process alone among many that strip away protection, and if the finish was already dirty, you now have a film or coating of dirt that doesn't just fly off with a duster. This is every day. Then there's heavy pounding rains, not once every 6 months, but several times a week in Summer, perhaps every day for a weeks long stretch. Even a medium rain here can compromise your so-called "sealant" in less than an hour, and in Spring, the Gulf rains can pound for days. Good luck with that Quik Detailer, as I found out early on. The density of trees means epic pollen, saps, and related dust and debris. Get closer to the beaches, and you can add salt wash to these processes. After a few days or a week with your "sealant", water may still bead on the surface, but that's just from the polish oils underneath, and a few rains later, those will be gone too. Your expensive coating will be scratched, cloudy, and compromised within weeks, and cleaning it up properly will slowly remove it, anyway. Add to this the winds, runoff and wind-blown contaminants from farming and irrigation, the hard water, and on and on...

Because of this obvious reality of weather conditions, because of my daily driving, the black paint, etc, it all requires very frequent cleaning (waterless or bucketed), and because claying or wiping will compromise coatings, a coating makes no sense at all and is a complete waste of money and time. Some of you think I'm exaggerating, or attacking you or your region, but I'm not. In the South, a freshly detailed car driven daily will need re-detailing within days, and then again within days, again within days, again and again. How would you handle that? This is why waxes-called-sealants also gain me absolutely nothing, and make me laugh every time they're pushed on this forum. If I rarely drove, if I had a white car, if I had a garage, and thus rarely needed to clean the car outright, then I might see it differently...but then, I wouldn't need the coating or so-called sealant in the first place, LOL. It's because of weather and cleaning that coatings and "sealants" are for me a solution in search of a problem, and do not begin to solve the detailing problem I actually do have.

Learning the spray wax and waterless wash methods from Meguiar's has been a life-saver. Before that, I was caught in a downward spiral of having to bucket-wash every few days, re-wax at least every month. These new methods are why I can wax with a carnauba wax happily and go months without doing it again, only when the swirls build up or enough scratches need to be corrected, and so on. Tomorrow it's August, and I last re-waxed with the DA in April, I think, before it got crazy hot-n-humid. This is not because my wax is "lasting" all that time, but because no protection will last all that time, so it doesn't matter how long it lasts in LA or Las Vegas. Every couple of days, I'm literally re-waxing with GCQW, and just as often, cleaning with UWWA (which has some carnauba). When I do a bucket wash, I use UWW (which has some carnauba) and GC Shampoo mixed. This is sometimes a lot of work, sure, but it's a LOT easier than traditional washing and waxing. The point here is that it doesn't matter whether I use a carnauba wax, a "sealant" wax, or a coating, because none of them will last under this frequent regimen and weather cycle. This being true, I choose Meguiar's carnauba waxes every time, especially Detailer D301, because they look amazing at every stage during this process.

Hope that helps :)

drumdan
Jul 31st, 2016, 06:43 PM
I think it all depends on the owner, car, weather/region, and habits. If I lived in the Southwest, with no other changes, I'd have different habits, cleaning less, etc. However, I live where there is a LOT of wildly different weather, and that means very frequent cleanup, wiping with UWWA and/or GCQW and more frequent or potentially needed bucket washing. It also means more scratches and road rash because the roads are dirtier and wetter.

I've driven all over the Southwest, including LA and Vegas (where what seems like a majority of MOL posters live), and it's just different. In those areas, there is no weather to speak of (by comparison). It's very, very dry, and dust itself is very dry, easily blown off. I can imagine living there with a DD and going many weeks at a stretch using nothing but my California Duster. No wonder it's so easy for MOLers in the Southwest to stay swirl-free. However, Meguiar's, everywhere outside the Southwest deserts and SoCal Coast you'll find a very different daily driver reality. Dust itself can be sticky because it's not actually dry. We have deep humidity, and wild swings of temperature and moisture cycles. Anyone who flies from, say LA to Atlanta, will literally feel what I'm talking about. Your car will be covered in dew most mornings, frost in Winter, one process alone among many that strip away protection, and if the finish was already dirty, you now have a film or coating of dirt that doesn't just fly off with a duster. This is every day. Then there's heavy pounding rains, not once every 6 months, but several times a week in Summer, perhaps every day for a weeks long stretch. Even a medium rain here can compromise your so-called "sealant" in less than an hour, and in Spring, the Gulf rains can pound for days. Good luck with that Quik Detailer, as I found out early on. The density of trees means epic pollen, saps, and related dust and debris. Get closer to the beaches, and you can add salt wash to these processes. After a few days or a week with your "sealant", water may still bead on the surface, but that's just from the polish oils underneath, and a few rains later, those will be gone too. Your expensive coating will be scratched, cloudy, and compromised within weeks, and cleaning it up properly will slowly remove it, anyway. Add to this the winds, runoff and wind-blown contaminants from farming and irrigation, the hard water, and on and on...

Because of this obvious reality of weather conditions, because of my daily driving, the black paint, etc, it all requires very frequent cleaning (waterless or bucketed), and because claying or wiping will compromise coatings, a coating makes no sense at all and is a complete waste of money and time. Some of you think I'm exaggerating, or attacking you or your region, but I'm not. In the South, a freshly detailed car driven daily will need re-detailing within days, and then again within days, again within days, again and again. How would you handle that? This is why waxes-called-sealants also gain me absolutely nothing, and make me laugh every time they're pushed on this forum. If I rarely drove, if I had a white car, if I had a garage, and thus rarely needed to clean the car outright, then I might see it differently...but then, I wouldn't need the coating or so-called sealant in the first place, LOL. It's because of weather and cleaning that coatings and "sealants" are for me a solution in search of a problem, and do not begin to solve the detailing problem I actually do have.

Learning the spray wax and waterless wash methods from Meguiar's has been a life-saver. Before that, I was caught in a downward spiral of having to bucket-wash every few days, re-wax at least every month. These new methods are why I can wax with a carnauba wax happily and go months without doing it again, only when the swirls build up or enough scratches need to be corrected, and so on. Tomorrow it's August, and I last re-waxed with the DA in April, I think, before it got crazy hot-n-humid. This is not because my wax is "lasting" all that time, but because no protection will last all that time, so it doesn't matter how long it lasts in LA or Las Vegas. Every couple of days, I'm literally re-waxing with GCQW, and just as often, cleaning with UWWA (which has some carnauba). When I do a bucket wash, I use UWW (which has some carnauba) and GC Shampoo mixed. This is sometimes a lot of work, sure, but it's a LOT easier than traditional washing and waxing. The point here is that it doesn't matter whether I use a carnauba wax, a "sealant" wax, or a coating, because none of them will last under this frequent regimen and weather cycle. This being true, I choose Meguiar's carnauba waxes every time, especially Detailer D301, because they look amazing at every stage during this process.

Hope that helps :)

What sealants and coatings have you tried?

If so, do you have a thread documenting each product, it's prep, application process, maintenance procedure, and conclusion of approximate longevity.

Again, if so, have you done a side by side test between your product of choice, and the sealant/coating being tested?

Anecdotal claims don't benefit anyone, especially considering the above claims are the exact opposite experiences of both professionals and enthusiasts alike, in many different climates, including the south.

Top Gear
Aug 1st, 2016, 03:45 AM
Well, you're using anecdotal claims to say mine are anecdotal. You're also greatly exaggerating when you imply there is any consensus on any of these products, because there is none. So, your "challenge" is easily ignored.

What I'm actually saying is not very different from other comments you'll find in this forum and others from regulars and pros over the years. I clearly made the point that I'm not disagreeing with some of the others in theory, that a pure synwax could possibly last a few days longer than a carnauba-blended synwax (say UW vs GC), or that a non-Meguiar's coating could outlast both, as long as you don't touch it (see Guz's own comments). Both factors depend on little to no maintenance or weather to generate maintenance needs, such as you'd find in the Southwest. That's the extent of what might be repeatable within all the wild claims I've read from those who push so-called "sealants" and coatings. That point is moot, though, and I've very clearly explained why.

The proof is in how "new" the paint looks after a few years and how it looks regularly in between major corrections. I've tried enough combos to know what works for me, and I've done threads where people like you try to tell me that up is down and left is right, because what I found challenges forum dogma. If you believe you can use a coating with very little maintenance in regularly rough weather and magically have an awesome finish and a coating finish with less work and better protection over a period of years, then perhaps that belief is all you really need to be convinced. I've seen no reason at all to be so easily fooled by marketing claims, even Meguiar's own marketing claims.

Perhaps I should ask you, how much and how different weather do you have to deal with and in what region of the world on a non-garaged DD, and what have you learned that works in order to have a freshly detailed finish every day over a period of years??

drumdan
Aug 1st, 2016, 05:02 AM
Well, you're using anecdotal claims to say mine are anecdotal. You're also greatly exaggerating when you imply there is any consensus on any of these products, because there is none. So, your "challenge" is easily ignored.

What I'm actually saying is not very different from other comments you'll find in this forum and others from regulars and pros over the years. I clearly made the point that I'm not disagreeing with some of the others in theory, that a pure synwax could possibly last a few days longer than a carnauba-blended synwax (say UW vs GC), or that a non-Meguiar's coating could outlast both, as long as you don't touch it (see Guz's own comments). Both factors depend on little to no maintenance or weather to generate maintenance needs, such as you'd find in the Southwest. That's the extent of what might be repeatable within all the wild claims I've read from those who push so-called "sealants" and coatings. That point is moot, though, and I've very clearly explained why.

The proof is in how "new" the paint looks after a few years and how it looks regularly in between major corrections. I've tried enough combos to know what works for me, and I've done threads where people like you try to tell me that up is down and left is right, because what I found challenges forum dogma. If you believe you can use a coating with very little maintenance in regularly rough weather and magically have an awesome finish and a coating finish with less work and better protection over a period of years, then perhaps that belief is all you really need to be convinced. I've seen no reason at all to be so easily fooled by marketing claims, even Meguiar's own marketing claims.

Perhaps I should ask you, how much and how different weather do you have to deal with and in what region of the world on a non-garaged DD, and what have you learned that works in order to have a freshly detailed finish every day over a period of years??

So that would be a no.

Thanks for clarifying.

Top Gear
Aug 1st, 2016, 12:03 PM
Your question has no answer, friend. You want to believe what you want to believe. It's not my problem to "prove" to you what should be patently obvious to anyone who keeps a DD detailed. Use what you like and move on.

The Guz
Aug 2nd, 2016, 05:56 PM
Op see this well written article

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/103632-how-wash-coated-car-gentle-approach-washing-car-mike-phillips.html