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Mike Phillips
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:02 AM
Why Meguiar's recommends polishing paint (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7058)

Resins
The primary ingredient used in automotive paints to actually coat over, protect, and beautify your vehicle is called resin. Resins are made from different types of oils. These oils vary depending on the paint type, but they are oils just the same. Early resins were made from raw materials such as the oils from Soya Beans, Flax Seeds, China Tung Nuts, Safflower seeds, Cottonseeds, and even Sardines! These surfaces required replenishing the oils over time, e.g. such as a wood finish needs oils to maintain its shine and beauty.

Modern resins are typically derived from polyurethane and/or acrylic polymers, which are tougher and more resistant to harsh environmental damage. Even though modern resins are more durable, they will breakdown over time through deterioration.

Deterioration is usually caused by the forces of oxidation, or reduction. Primarily deterioration comes from exposure to outdoor environments such as inclement weather, or warm temperatures and direct sunlight. Washing with high alkaline detergent soaps accelerate this deterioration by stripping any wax protection off the surface and by attacking and drying out the resins. Think about it this way, if you have a brand new car or a brand new paint job and you store the car in a garage, (or say a museum), the finish never deteriorates. That's because it is never exposed to forces that attack and deteriorate the resins.

When the resins breakdown and are removed from the surface, they leave behind pockets of air or pores into which water and other unwanted substances can penetrate into. When water, high alkaline detergent soaps, acid rain, alkaline rain, harsh solvents or other unwanted substances get into these pores they act to accelerate the deterioration process, (oxidation or reduction).

When you apply a Meguiar's polish, the trade secret oils found in all Meguiar's polishes, (and even Meguiar's compounds, cleaner/polishes and even some waxes), penetrate into the paint and replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down, leached out and/or deteriorated. These trade secret oils then act to fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets and surface imperfections thus preventing unwanted substances from entering into these areas.

For over 100 years, Meguiar's trade secret oils have been proven to beautify and maintain automotive paints.

Meguiar's Trade Secret Oils
The trade secret oils used in Meguiar's products for over 100 years benefit your paint in a number of different ways, here are two very important ones,

1) They add beauty, gloss and reflectivity
Meguiar?s trade secret oils add beauty by darkening medium to dark colors. Most people agree a deep, dark wet looking finish looks better than a dry, hazy, plasticy looking finish. They also increase gloss by filling in and smoothing out the surface creating a deep, wet-look shine that everyone admires.

2) They replace and replenish the oils/resins originally present in your car's paint
Meguiar's trade secret oils penetrate into and fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets, and surface imperfections created in your car's paint by the effects of either oxidation or reduction. This prevents detrimental substances from getting into these microscopic areas and accelerating the deterioration of your car's finish.

Unlike most wax companies in the car care industry, Meguiar's has over 100 years of experience working with the companies that make the paint that is applied at the OEM level, (car manufactures), right on the assembly line, and also in the refinishing industry, (your local body shops and custom paint shops).

Meguiar's unique background and close relationships with giants in both the automotive paint industry and new car manufactures, (for about as long as these two industries have been around), should give you the confidence you need to enable you to place your trust in Meguiar?', the surface care experts. 100 years of making just about every surface coating look it's best and last it's longest is probably the best proof you can ask for when deciding for yourself whether or not you want to polish your car's finish with a Meguiar's polish.

The proof is in the pudding
More Best of Class winners and Best of Show winners use Meguiar's products each year at the Pebble Beach Concours De Elegance, (the most prestigious car show in the world), than any other car care products since records have been kept.

Meguiar's knows paint
If you choose to wash your car with a strong alkaline detergent soap, expect the paint finish to deteriorate prematurely. Meguiar's always recommends that you use a premium car wash specifically formulated for automotive paints and all of the other specialty materials commonly used to make the multitude of other components found on your vehicle.


Remember, paint is a delicate, thin coating, which is easily dulled and easily scratched. Once it has been dulled down, or inflicted with scratches, it takes the right products the right application process and the proper techniques to remove the defects and restore a clear, glossy defect-free finish. Choose carefully whose advise you listen to when it comes to taking care of your car's finish.

soonercivic
Jul 8th, 2005, 11:40 AM
Great info Mike! Ill print this and share it with some skeptical friends.:bow :bow :xyxthumbs

Mike Phillips
Jul 8th, 2005, 12:02 PM
Over on CorvetteForum.com, a gentleman who had himself banned here on Meguiar's Online for bashing forum members and bashing Meguiar's products and the company, has taken issue with the above article.

Before I go any further, I would just like to add that we don't ban anyone here on Meguiar's Online, you ban yourself by continually breaking forum rules. We also don't censor or delete posts or threads, as long as they comply with forum rules (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4136) and this is the standard by which most, if not all forums operate under.

Here's his thread,

Meguiars replaces oils in paint is BS info from paint manufacturers (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1132138&forum_id=10)

Here's his problem, he's trying to interpret the wrong meaning into the below statement by the twisting the way in which I used the word, replace.

This person is trying to make it look like what I wrote means that Meguiar's polishing oils are becoming a part of the paint. This is simply not true and this is not what I wrote.



When you apply a Meguiar's polish, the trade secret oils found in all Meguiar's polishes, (and even Meguiar's compounds, cleaner/polishes and even some waxes), penetrate into the paint and replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down, leached out and/or deteriorated. These trade secret oils then act to fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets and surface imperfections thus preventing unwanted substances from entering into these areas.


The thing about people like this person is they read so literally into a statement like this with the sole purpose of misconstruing it for their own nefarious reasons.

In fact,, to clarify and to insure someone like this person couldn't do what their attempting to do, I added yet another paragraph in the article to further explain in detail what the polishing oils in Meguiar's polishes do to the paint.

This person left this out of his post, again for his own nefarious reasons... but I'll add them below to prove his deceitful intent...

Note the dark blue paragraph in the below quote from the article,


Meguiar's Trade Secret Oils
The trade secret oils used in Meguiar's products for over 100 years benefit your paint in a number of different ways, here are two very important ones,

1) They add beauty, gloss and reflectivity
Meguiar?s trade secret oils add beauty by darkening medium to dark colors. Most people agree a deep, dark wet looking finish looks better than a dry, hazy, plasticy looking finish. They also increase gloss by filling in and smoothing out the surface creating a deep, wet-look shine that everyone admires.

2) They replace and replenish the oils/resins originally present in your car's paint
Meguiar's trade secret oils penetrate into and fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets, and surface imperfections created in your car's paint by the effects of either oxidation or reduction. This prevents detrimental substances from getting into these microscopic areas and accelerating the deterioration of your car's finish.

As much as this person would like to have everyone believe that Meguiar's polishing oils don't penetrate into the paint and make paint look more beautiful by adding richness, clarity, reflectivity and gloss, it's a proven fact that our polished do in fact do this and have been doing this for over 100 years.

It's also very easy to prove to yourself. Here's an easy test you can do to see and understand how our polishes penetrate into paint and add beauty...

Take a the hood or deck lid of a neglected, oxidized dark colored paint. After washing it to make sure the surface is clean, mark out a section about 8" square or so and place a tape line to one side of this section.. Apply a polish like #7 Show Car Glaze, work it into the paint and then wipe off the excess residue. Then, wipe the surface off again really well, make sure there is no polish left on the "surface".

Now remove the tape and compare the two sections. The side you have applied the polish to will be richer in color, more clear and more reflective than the side you have not applied the polish to. If you have wiped the #7 Show Car Glaze completely off the surface, (A microfiber is good for this), then how can the paint look better?

Answer: The polishing oils have penetrated into the microscopic pores, fissures, cracks and other imperfections in the paint, (as in below the surface level) and filled in these areas. The oils act to add beauty by revitalizing the dull paint.

You can perform the above on any neglected medium to dark colored paint that has been neglected and oxidized and you will prove to yourself the effects of applying a pure polish to paint.

While I currently don't have any neglected cars sitting around, I do have a neglected Blazer Hardtop with oxidized black paint.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2BlazerHardTops-med.jpg

After washing the dirt and dust off the top I took a photo to show the dull, dry looking oxidized paint and also applied some painters tape to isolate the two sides for a good before and after shot.


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2Drypaint.jpg

Next I applied some #7 Show Car Glaze to one side and then vigorously wiped the surface off using Meguiar's Supreme Microfiber Shine. As most people know, microfiber polishing cloths are very effective and efficient at removing polishes and waxes off the surface of paint.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PolishingOils1.jpg

To make sure there is no confusion, this is the side I applied and removed the #7 polish onto.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PolishingOils3.jpg

This is the before side with no polish...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PolishingOils2.jpg

As you can see, the polishing oils have penetrated into the paint. In so doing, they have restored clarity, richness of color, gloss and beauty.

If someone wants to focus their energy on the meaning of the word replace, that's up to them, but the context of the article is that Meguiar's polishing oils provide a benefit to paint by adding beauty, gloss, clarity, reflectivity and richness of color, all things that we as enthusiasts enjoy and look for in our car's paint.

SchwarzenSchafe
Jul 8th, 2005, 12:57 PM
I think you're held to a very high standard Mike, one that you usually satisfy. However, in this case I think you used ambiguous wording in such a way that it got you into trouble. By saying that Meg's polish will replace clear coat resin I think the perception is that you're implying that it replaces it in function, whereas I think you mean that it simply physically replaces an area in space that was formerly occupied by the resin.

I do not believe that urethane clear coat will "absorb" polish, or that polish will "penetrate into" clear coat, but the issue here is semantics and requires an understanding of how paint films deteriorate. When the paint (or "resin" to be consistent with your article) is damaged through oxidation or chemical processes it will leave voids and and an uneven surfaces - if it deteriorated in a uniform manner then paint would continue to be glossy as it broke down because the surface would continue to be perfectly flat. The problem is that people are thinking of paint as a perfectly flat surface, and they think of a polish as lying on top of this surface. That's not entirely true. If you magnified a damaged finish you would see pits and cracks and all kinds of a defects just like you were looking at a mountain range. As paint breaks down it might form a "crevasse" in the mountain range (to continue the analogy). A polish will "penetrate into" this crevasse, "replacing" a space that was occupied by the clear coat resin before it was damaged. Will the polish soak into the sides of this "crevasse", actually PENETRATE INTO the clear coat itself? I don't believe that it will, and if that's what you're claiming then I think you're dead wrong.

"Penetrate into" and "replace" in the manner you used them were a poor choice of words in my opinion. Try to remember that when you make very strong ambiguous claims that can easily be taken the wrong way you undermine your credibility - whether or not you're technically correct has nothing to do with it, it's all about perception.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.

Mike Phillips
Jul 8th, 2005, 01:08 PM
Each of the below cars have been polished first with a Meguiar's polish and the waxed using NXT Tech Wax. It's a fact that Meguiar's polishes have been producing award winning finishes that are crystal clear, rich in color, vibrant, glossy, and wet-looking with a mile deep shine ever since we started making them...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/24OldMegsBottles.JPG

If you want your car's paint to look it's best, if you want to take your car's finish to it's maximum potential, then before you apply a wax of your choice... you want to polish it with a Meguiar's polish.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2LotusAfter2.jpg

Overhaulin Challenger machine polished with M80 Speed Glaze and topped with NXT Tech Wax
(Won two first places prizes the next day)

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2StephanieJamesDoubleWin.jpg

The Panic Parrot machine polished with M80 Speed Glaze and topped with NXT Tech Wax

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PanicFinished1.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2CoolPanicParrotShot.jpg

Lil Octane

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2NXToverZaino-med.jpg

Check out the results NXT Tech Wax created on this Ford Lightning Truck!
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/1596LiquidRedPaintbroughtToYoubyNXT.jpg

Click here to to add your comments! (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3252)

NXT Tech Wax is Amazing! (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=973171)

http://home.comcast.net/~jchrisf/nxt.jpg


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2F150Finished11-med.jpg


http://www.autopia.org/gallery/data/500/2704sniperwithnxt.jpg


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2AlexsCorvetteFinished1.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2600_AlexFongsResults2.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2treereflection1.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2reflectionshotonnewMBpaint3-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2Viper6-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2013NCCCTechWaxResults-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2700_DavesViperLooksWetC1-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/247PlymouthColorXNXTBeautyShotC3-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/247PlymouthAfterColorXS5-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2TechWaxonFerrari1-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2CarlsViperFinished2-med.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2800_sideshot2-med.jpg

http://www.autopia.org/gallery/data/500/2704liquidredpaint1.jpg

http://www.autopia.org/gallery/data/500/270485_vette_005.jpg

SchwarzenSchafe
Jul 8th, 2005, 01:41 PM
Yes Mike, amazing work. I like the tree reflection in the mercedes, like a mirror.

You have a tendency to sound a bit like an infomercial at times though. That will work fine if you want to be a salesman to Joe Public that doesn't know polish from bird droppings, but the professionals and serious enthusiasts like to be clear about whether clear coat wicks up polish like some kind of magic sponge or whether polish only fills voids in the structure of the paint film if those voids exist in the first place.

Mike Phillips
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by SchwarzenSchafe
I think you're held to a very high standard Mike, one that you usually satisfy. However, in this case I think you used ambiguous wording in such a way that it got you into trouble.

I think that's what I tried to explain in my second post above. That is, my choice of words probably wasn't the best choice, this wasn't intentional, just happenstance. This was then exploited by the person on CorvetteForum for their won nefarious reasons.

I used the replace, when a better word would have perhaps been revitalize.

Regardless, the person who started the thread on CorvetteForum appears to have an agenda; even a casual purusal of his posts (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/search.php?searchid=380409&use_arch=&use_current=1&forum_id=) on CorvetteForum or any forum he posts to clearly demonstrates a history of bashing myself, NXT Tech Wax and Meguiar's in general.

After reading his posts for years now, I personally have come to appreciate people on forums that contribute in a positive manner, that is instead of bashing others they tend to help other by answering their questions and helping people to get the best results from their time, money and efforts.

Mike Phillips
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by SchwarzenSchafe
That will work fine if you want to be a salesman to Joe Public that doesn't know polish from bird droppings, but the professionals and serious enthusiasts like to be clear about whether clear coat wicks up polish like some kind of magic sponge or whether polish only fills voids in the structure of the paint film if those voids exist in the first place.

I try my hardest to help a wide spectrum of people from all walks of life and backgrounds and in so doing try to write in a way that will help everyone to understand sometimes simple ideas sometimes complex ideas. I do make mistakes however and when I do, I own up to them.

Ranger72
Jul 8th, 2005, 02:53 PM
Mike, great write up. No matter how you say something, there will always be someone who takes your words differently than you had intended them. You clarified yourself in your next post, and kept your cool. I commend you for that.
-Mike

Mosca
Jul 8th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Although I do believe that it is very worthwhile to understand why things work, you can't escape that at the end of the day only one thing is true:

Either the car shines, or the car doesn't shine. Everything else is posturing.

What I mean when I say that is the end result stands for itself and needs no explanation nor any apology.

I get OUTSTANDING results from LOTS of different products, but I get my BEST results from MEGUIAR'S products. Other people might get the best results from other products, but they can't deny MY results. My cars shine.

When people start picking on other peoples' choice of products in the face of obviously outstanding results, then they have an axe to grind that has nothing to do with polishing cars.


Tom

SchwarzenSchafe
Jul 8th, 2005, 03:29 PM
I'm being too hard on you I'm sure, but my "nefarious purpose" was only to try to show you that the marketing spin that creeps into a lot of your text damages your credibility with knowledgable consumers, as it definately did in this case.


Originally posted by Mike Phillips if you want to take your car's finish to it's maximum potential... you want to polish it with a Meguiar's polish.

THe insinuation being that non-Meg's polishes won't take your car's finish to it's maximum potential. That's not "good advice from a professional detailer", that's "more marketing from Meguiars". I know you're a professional detailer that gives good advice, so my intent was to ask you to act like it, in my rude, elusive, and roundabout way.

Superior Shine
Jul 8th, 2005, 04:32 PM
THe insinuation being that non-Meg's polishes won't take your car's finish to it's maximum potential. That's not "good advice from a professional detailer", that's "more marketing from Meguiars". I know you're a professional detailer that gives good advice, so my intent was to ask you to act like it, in my rude, elusive, and roundabout way.

Your visiting a Meguiars forum on a Meguiars web site and a Meguiar employee tells you that their products are best, -------------- yea thats odd:rofl:

BY the way , every post by Mr. Phillips ends with ---
"Find something you like and use it often"

Great write up Mike.

SchwarzenSchafe
Jul 8th, 2005, 04:38 PM
Sorry I misunderstood where the "nefarious" was directed and realize now it wasn't at me. My bad!

I'm sorry to bust your {*} [edited for inappropriate language: 2hotford] like this... hopefully it's understood that I'm only doing it to try to steer you in the "right" direction, that is, the direction most benificial to ME - giving advanced advice to professionals and serious enthusiasts without any marketing jive.

The truth is that you're extremely knowledgable and I've learned a lot of information about Meguiar's and paint care in general from your posts. Even though there's a bit of sales fluff now and then (It's like you work for Meguiars or something...?!) I've never seen you give anything but excellent advice on a huge range of detailing topics.

Mike Phillips
Jul 8th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by SchwarzenSchafe
Sorry I misunderstood where the "nefarious" was directed and realize now it wasn't at me. My bad!

I'm sorry to bust your balls like this... hopefully it's understood that I'm only doing it to try to steer you in the "right" direction, that is, the direction most beneficial to ME - giving advanced advice to professionals and serious enthusiasts without any marketing jive. The truth is that you're extremely knowledgeable and I've learned a lot of information about Meguiar's and paint care in general from your posts. Even though there's a bit of sales fluff now and then (It's like you work for Meguiar's or something...?!) I've never seen you give anything but excellent advice on a huge range of detailing topics.

A long time ago, in a far away galaxy...

Hmmm.... wait.... that's a movie I watched :D

Let me start over...

A long time ago, when I first started working for Meguiar's as an Outside Sales Rep, I found that calling on self-taught detailers was one of my least favorite things to do because often times they we're proud. Nothing wrong with being proud of doing professional work, but one of the side-effects of being self-taught was that some of these folks would tend to wall themselves off to new information, this was because they thought they knew everything. (That's one of the side-effects of being self-taught).

What this taught me was to never be like them and to always be open to new ideas, new products and new processes.


SchwarzenSchafe has been honest and open with his thoughts and feedback on my writing style and I both welcome his insight and embrace it. I never want to become like the people I called on that walled themselves off to new information. In this thread the new information was not a product or a process, but an idea to stay true to my roots and that's to always remember to solve peoples problems, if you can solve peoples problems, they will sell themselves on your products or service.

My primary job on this forum is to help people get the best results possible from their time, money and efforts. Sometimes it can be easy to get caught up in the excitement of detailing cars that marketing copy, (sales fluff), can creep into my posts and to tell the truth, like SchwarzenSchafe has pointed out, it's not necessary. Simply sharing the performance of our products is really all that's necessary.

I recently obtained a new computer monitor; when I removed the old one I failed to remove a note taped to the front of the old monitor and place it on the new monitor. The not was a reminder to keep my writing focused on my philosophy towards my work... here's what the note says word for word.


"A professional salesperson solves their customers problem, if you can solve your customer's problem, they'll sell themselves on our product or service"

The point being is a professional sales person never sells anything.

I'm not technically a salesperson, but the effect of my work here on this forum and on other forums is targeted at solving problems and the net effect is people purchase products based upon the words I choose and use in my posts.


So thank you SchwarzenSchafe, for helping me to re-discover my core beliefs.

Now let's get this thread back on topic which is why Meguiar's recommends polishing paint.

Mike Phillips
Jul 8th, 2005, 06:32 PM
Hey Joe,

Recently I had the pleasure of watching you restore the finish on this neglected and oxidized finish on this 1957 Chevrolet Pick Up Truck.

Before

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/257Before001.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/257Before002.jpg

Paint Cleaning

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/257RotaryClean002.jpg

Paint Polishing

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/257PCSpeedGlaze6.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/257PCSpeedGlaze7.jpg

Sealing the paint with M21

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/257PCM21SynSealant1.jpg

Finished

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/257Finished018.jpg


This paint restoration came out perfect in every sense of the word, one of the products you used was the M80 Speed Glaze a cleaner/polish rich in Meguiar's polishing oils, from what I witnessed, after first cleaning the paint with a dedicated paint cleaner, the polishing step with Speed Glaze really increased the richness of color in the paint. The M21 added the finishing touch adding gloss and shine as well as sealing the finish.

The point being is that this paint was old, dirty, dried out and oxidized. It had lost its clarity, gloss and most important for a paint like this, its richness of color. The products used to restore this finish contained Meguiar's polishing oils; the paint cleaner used them to lubricate the surface to prevent scouring while also revitalizing the appearance of the paint; the cleaner/polish, M80 Speed Glaze, (rich in Meguiar's polishing oils), build on the results of the paint cleaner by smoothing out the paint even more and gorging the paint with the polishing oils found in Meguiar's polishes. The results were the full richness of color and gloss were completely restored in part because Meguiar's polishing oils penetrated into the paint.

In this thread (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1132138&forum_id=10), agentf1 asserts that my article on why Meguiar's recommends polishing paint means Meguiar's polishing oils become part of the paint because I chose to use the word replace instead of the word replenish or revitalize. He has an agenda to bash myself, Meguiar's and NXT which luckily anyone who reads any of his posts on any forum he posts to, (and has not had himself banned from), can easily see.

The replenishing and revitalizing results show by the simple hand application to the paint on my Blazer roof, or the complete machine cleaning and polishing of the above Aqua colored 1957 Chevrolet truck demonstrate that Meguiar's polishes do in fact penetrate into automotive paint, (at some level), and add beauty, clarity, richness of color and gloss. These are the characteristics that most people want in their car's finish. So while agentf1 tries to focus everyone's attention on a word and thus tries to change the meaning of an article, the big picture is that we as car enthusiasts love our cars and do the things we can to make them look their best. It's a time-proven fact (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2609) that Meguiar's polishes make automotive paints look beautiful and one person with an ugly agenda cannot change this no matter how much he rants and raves on forum he has not been banned from. Again, just look at his posts (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/search.php?searchid=380409&use_arch=&use_current=1&forum_id=) on other forums and a clear pattern quickly emerges demonstrating his bias towards one product and his focused goal of always bashing myself or Meguiar's.

SchwarzenSchafe
Jul 8th, 2005, 08:31 PM
Nice job on the truck. There shouldn't BE salesmen, just people like you that know the products and solve problems, it's a good philosophy.

Here's an on-topic question... How does the presence of wax affect the performance and longevity of a polish applied over top?

Mike Phillips
Jul 9th, 2005, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by SchwarzenSchafe
Nice job on the truck. There shouldn't BE salesmen, just people like you that know the products and solve problems, it's a good philosophy.

* Either Mary Kay Ash, Founder, Mary Kay Cosmetics, or Arthur "Red" Motley, former Editor of Parade Magazine said,

"Nothing ever happens until somebody sells something".

I tend to agree with her, people tend to deride salespeople, but when I see a person driving down the road with a trailer full of Jet Ski's, or dirt bikes, or a pleasure boat, etc. I think to myself,

They couldn't take those toys out and have fun all weekend until somebody sold them the toys in the first place.

You can use any analogy you like but the idea is a professional salesperson helps us to buy what we want or need.


Here's an on-topic question... How does the presence of wax affect the performance and longevity of a polish applied over top?

That's a question that comes up all the time and the thread for that can be found in the Information Station forum under Hot Topics

Lot's of great information in these forums...

Meguiar's How-To Articles (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=33)
Hot Topics (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=80)
Meguiar's Automotive FAQ (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=64)


Here are two threads that discuss the answer to this question

Do Glazes/Fillers affect the bonding of NXT? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4831)

A question on wax bonding and the potential for interference by a quick detailer? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5067)


* I've found a website for May Kay Ash that claims this is her quote and yet another website that claims this is Red Motely's quote. Either way, it's a great quote.

Mosca
Jul 9th, 2005, 04:50 AM
Y'know, I was going to log in and post something there; but then I remembered, there's no way to look good when you argue with people over the internet. I couldn't imagine writing ANYTHING that would eventually elicit the response, "You know Tom, I thought about what you wrote, and you're right."

I think I'll go for a drive a little later, then maybe cook up some steaks for the family on the grill, have some corn, some zucchini. I mean, it's a beautiful day, why ruin it because someone else is cranky?


Tom

MandarinaRacing
Jul 9th, 2005, 08:39 AM
Now let's get this thread back on topic which is why Meguiar's recommends polishing paint.

YES!!!!! I want to read more about POLISH! and paint and sealers....come on guys!

Alex

Ranger72
Jul 13th, 2005, 12:38 PM
Not to steal the thread, but how come Joe (the gentelman detailing the '57 chevy pickup) Cut it with a woolpad and what looks to be '84 (cant tell) and polished with the G100 and #80. Is this because it is a single stage paint? I have not detailed many single stage paints and would like to hear some info... *cough mike phillips *cough* lol

Bama
Jul 13th, 2005, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Mosca
Y'know, I was going to log in and post something there; but then I remembered, there's no way to look good when you argue with people over the internet. I couldn't imagine writing ANYTHING that would eventually elicit the response, "You know Tom, I thought about what you wrote, and you're right."

I think I'll go for a drive a little later, then maybe cook up some steaks for the family on the grill, have some corn, some zucchini. I mean, it's a beautiful day, why ruin it because someone else is cranky?


Tom

:iagree:

Mosca
Jul 13th, 2005, 05:10 PM
If you go through the whole forum all you see is that agentf1 guy answering every thread that mentions Meguiar's with a recommendation to try Zaino. It's obvious that he has an agenda that is not shining cars. I would trust it to be obvious to anyone else also.

A guy wants to use the Z product, great; if he uses it right, his car will look really fantastic.

But my car will look really fantastic, too, and I can get my products at Pep's or WalMart, I spent less money, and I get this great forum with almost instantaneous support if I need help.

I have something that works for me. I have a couple cars that look like they've been kept in a wrapper. I've taught countless people how to bring their cars to the same standard. You don't need Zaino to do that. You need knowledge and skill. And of the many places that you can use to find that knowledge and skill, this is one of the best, by far. Sure it promotes Meguiar's products. I mean, it's Meguiar's forum! but it also provides consistent, accurate information and advice both for general questions ("What's the difference between waxes and sealants?") and specific questions ("HELP PLZ MIKE! I have swirl marks everywhere!") with pictures and tutorials.

So, when I say that I have something that works for me, Meguiar'sonline.com is part of that. I can't separate the product from the support, personally. If I'm having a problem, I know that I can post it here. If I found something worthwhile, I know I can share it here.

FOR ME, that's part of the product, y'know?


Tom

meximum
Jul 13th, 2005, 06:35 PM
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

It's the support that reflects the product.

I've got it all here.:xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs

travisdecpn
Jul 13th, 2005, 07:33 PM
Some people are just out to raise heck, looking for a way to bash a company/representative. I have appreciated everything you have provided this community with and your extensive knowledge of paint care and Meguiar's products in general. It's the kind of people that make posts with the sole intention to bash someone that make forums hard to follow sometimes.

Bama
Jul 14th, 2005, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by Mosca
I have something that works for me. I have a couple cars that look like they've been kept in a wrapper. I've taught countless people how to bring their cars to the same standard. You don't need Zaino to do that. You need knowledge and skill. And of the many places that you can use to find that knowledge and skill, this is one of the best, by far. Sure it promotes Meguiar's products. I mean, it's Meguiar's forum! but it also provides consistent, accurate information and advice both for general questions.

Tom

Agree with you Tom. I agree with Mike's signature... "Find something you like and use it often." Skill is more important in my mind than what brand of products you use. Meguiar's, Mother's, Zaino, etc. all make good products and with the proper technique anyone can use these products and get an outstanding result. Who am I to tell anyone that they are wrong for using a product that works well for them. I don't believe in bashing people, companies, or products to get your point across. One reason Meguiar's has so many products is because people have different needs and different opinions on how they want their vehicles to look. I have used Meguiar's products for years, and one thing that I can say is that Meguiar's is a class operation. It has great customer support, and I trust their products. This forum is a great place to get informed and share experiences. It may be blasphemy, but I'll admit it. I also use a lot of Mother's products, which I like and work for me in certain situations, but I am certainly not going tell someone that they shouldn't use NXT because I think FX is better. It's just my opinion. Information is the key. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Also, I just wanted to add that I think Mike and the rest of the mods on this forum do us a great service and an excellent job. I look forward to Mike's informative posts and insights. Guys, keep up the good work. :xyxthumbs

RDVT4ME
Jul 14th, 2005, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by Bama

Also, I just wanted to add that I think Mike and the rest of the mods on this forum do us a great service and an excellent job. I look forward to Mike's informative posts and insights. Guys, keep up the good work. :xyxthumbs



:iagree:

Mike Phillips
Jul 14th, 2005, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Bama
Also, I just wanted to add that I think the mods on this forum do us a great service and an excellent job.

Just to note...

We only have one Moderator, 2hotford and yes... he does an excellent job of Moderating as well as helping people to get the best results from their time, money and efforts.

Plus he's a genuinely nice guy. :bigups :bigups :bigups

Ranger72
Jul 14th, 2005, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Ranger72
Not to steal the thread, but how come Joe (the gentelman detailing the '57 chevy pickup) Cut it with a woolpad and what looks to be '84 (cant tell) and polished with the G100 and #80. Is this because it is a single stage paint? I have not detailed many single stage paints and would like to hear some info... *cough mike phillips *cough* lol
Any thought on this guys? thanks

Bama
Jul 14th, 2005, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Just to note...

We only have one Moderator, 2hotford and yes... he does an excellent job of Moderating as well as helping people to get the best results from their time, money and efforts.

Plus he's a genuinely nice guy. :bigups :bigups :bigups

Mike, understand. Just trying to give you, 2hotford, and all Meguiar's employees who post here some love and to say thanks. We appreciate the insight and advice.

RDVT4ME
Jul 14th, 2005, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Ranger72
Any thought on this guys? thanks

Joe (Superior Shine) did start another thread to answer that specific question I believe.

This should help
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7155

Ranger72
Jul 14th, 2005, 11:09 AM
Thank your very much!

JeffM
Jul 14th, 2005, 02:54 PM
Same thing goes on with the Pentium and the AMD people. Its a by product of the internet.

Too bad quality people get targeted by people with issues.

TOGWT
Jul 14th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Quote: Too bad quality people get targeted by people with issues.

A hard fact to accept when your sole intention is to provde factual information to help others . .
JonM

Lt1Corvette
Jul 14th, 2005, 03:45 PM
Great thread Mike. I always find this kind of information interesting. Don't hear much about single stage paint now a days since most everything is clearcoated. I always love how even neglected single stage paint can clean up to like new condition.

Tom Weed
Jul 14th, 2005, 04:41 PM
I would just like to use this opportunity to say thanks to Mike, 2hotford and everyone else here who contributes. I've learned so much by coming here and reading all the posts. My questions have always been answered and on occasion I've even added my 2 cents. I really enjoy reading posts here and consider this forum a valuable resource.

Thanks again,
Tom

F-150
Jul 9th, 2006, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Tom Weed
I would just like to use this opportunity to say thanks to Mike, 2hotford and everyone else here who contributes. I've learned so much by coming here and reading all the posts. My questions have always been answered and on occasion I've even added my 2 cents. I really enjoy reading posts here and consider this forum a valuable resource.
I second that