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SkeeterJD
Sep 2nd, 2005, 07:53 AM
I know I should just stick to listening to you guys on the forum, but my curiosity got the best of me. For my big project this weekend using my G-100 for the first time with the professional line (#83, #80, #7, #26) I went to an auto paint store this morning to pick up some #83. While I was there, the guy behind the counter told me that #83 is pretty aggressive even with an 8006 and the darker the paint, it will produce more swirls/holograms. I told him that I was using a DA, but he said that it would regardless. Owning a black corvette, I dont think I can get any darker paint! Mike and many others have told me otherwise that #83 was safe and from the forums I have read, nobody has ever mentioned the #83 producing swirls/holograms. Is this guy wrong? He said that if I wanted to get rid of swirls to use the #9 Swirl Remover 2.0.

From what I can tell, the #9 is even less aggressive than #80. I am sure there are a lot of people out there that will say, you wont ever know until you try it, and maybe thats what I need to do. But also, like many people on this forum they want the best for their car and obviously dont want to do anything that might harm/marr the finish. I know that Meguiar's always suggests using the least aggressive material first, and not showing you guys any pictures isnt helping my cause any.

Maybe what I am looking for is anyone who has used the #9 and for them to give me their thoughts on it. My plan is to take plenty of pictures this weekend, in hopes that it will all be a success, but in the event that it is not (pray to God or to maybe the glorious car Gods), I'd like to get some more help as usual.

Thanks for any input on this.

Scott

SkeeterJD
Sep 2nd, 2005, 08:06 AM
Sorry to double post, but I was also planning on taping a section down my rear quarter panel to compare and contrast. Is this bad for the paint? I wont be taping it to a hot car, but I didn't know if regular packing tape (not the clear stuff like scotch tape) would be okay or not. I really want to see the difference in direct sunlight. My car is washed and waxed in the garage and then reviewed outside.

Thanks again.

Mike Phillips
Sep 2nd, 2005, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by SkeeterJD
I know I should just stick to listening to you guys on the forum, but my curiosity got the best of me. For my big project this weekend using my G-100 for the first time with the professional line (#83, #80, #7, #26)

I went to an auto paint store this morning to pick up some #83. While I was there, the guy behind the counter told me that #83 is pretty aggressive even with an 8006 and the darker the paint, it will produce more swirls/holograms.

Thanks for any input on this.

Scott

Just to note, I've posted all over this forum that M83 is a fairly aggressive paint cleaner.

Technically, M83 when used with the rotary buffer is for removing swirls, not instilling them. For example, you would use M83/W-8000 or W-8006 after a heavy compounding with either a wool pad or a foam cutting pad to remove the swirls they leave behind.

Using good technique you can use the M83 with a rotary to bring the level of finish quality to about 90 to 95 percent out of 100 for a swirl free finish and then take it all the way using a dual action polisher.

When he said it will produce more swirls, I'm not sure if I understand the context of the application he's referring to?

Following the philosophy of,

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Used with a dual action polisher, here is a list of the least aggressive product to the most aggressive product in the professional line.

Least to most

#9 Swirl Remover 2.0
#82 Swirl Free Polish
#80 Speed Glaze
#83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish

Evaluate the condition of your car's finish and then choose your product. first do a Test Spot in a small are and see if your choice of product is getting the job done, if not substitute a more aggressive product.

If you have to get as aggressive as the M83, then after going over the entire car or panel, (whatever you're working on), remove all of the M83/paint residue and re-polish the entire area using the M80 Speed Glaze, or possibly one of the other cleaner/polishes, whichever is best restoring the finish to your liking.

ratcals
Sep 2nd, 2005, 09:23 AM
Scott

Being a black Corvette (2002) owner myself I'd be very interested in you results. Just out of curiosity what type of blemishes are you trying to resolve? Here are some preliminary results from some Meguiar's products I have used.

Living in England we don't get much sun. However, yesteday when the sun was quite bright I noticed I had some swirls in my paint:


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/ratcals/DSCF0003.jpg


I used ScratchX and did three very vigorous application, immediately followed by two applications of Deep Crystal Polish and two applications of NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste. All done by hand and this was the end result:


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/ratcals/DSCF0001.jpg


I also applied the same treatment to a differnt portion of my hood to see if I could remove some scratches. The scratches didn't come out. However, it did make a drastic difference in the appearance of the paint. I thought my car was black. That was until I treated it with Meguiar's. Tell me what you think, the bottom portion of the picture was treated with all three products as described above:


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/ratcals/scratch1.jpg


And from a different angle:


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/ratcals/scratch2.jpg


However, despite these dramatic improvements there are still some scratches I cannot get rid of. And until today I couldn't get the lighting rid to photograph them. So here is one of them:


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/ratcals/scratch6.jpg


My next step is going to be the #80 and #83. I don't have these yet and won't be buying them for about a week or so because of availability/price here.

Let me know how you get along. Any other input/suggestions appreciated.

Mark

SkeeterJD
Sep 2nd, 2005, 09:25 AM
Yeah, sorry, I know its pretty aggressive, but I had never heard it instilling swirls. It'll take me some time, but I will start with the #9 or the least aggressive product I have and move up.

Does anyone know about the tape question? I though about using that painting masking tape that isn't very adhesive easy removal.

Thanks for the response Mike.

SkeeterJD
Sep 2nd, 2005, 09:38 AM
Ratcal, yes! That is a great result with the Scratch X. I know my paint needs some work. I just bought my C5 about a month ago and previous owner didn't baby it like a black car, especially a Corvette so I know that I have some work to do. After reading all the great reviews of the DA I bought one along with quite a few of the professional line Meguair's products.

Prior to getting the DA I used #7 and that gave me great results on the parts of my car that wasn't swirled, hence the DA and all the other products listed above (#83, #80, #2, and #7). I'm hoping that I can get most of the swirls scratches out with those products and the DA.

I have a scratch in almost same location as you and it took nearly 5-6 vigorous applications of Scratch X to get it to the point where most people wouldn't see it, but of course I still see it. I did the fingernail test and I could barely feel it, but man it was a bear!

My car is at the point where it looks great from about 20 feet away, but once I get up to it, I see a lot of imperfections. If I had the time, I'd like to hit the whole car with scratch X, but time is an issue as would be my arm!

I am going to spend the whole weekend trying to find the right combination to get the best results. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I'm dealing mostly with swirls and some light scratches.

RDVT4ME
Sep 2nd, 2005, 09:39 AM
I use blue painters tape when masking areas. It works well. I also use meguiars#39 heavy duty vinyl/rubber cleaner on rubber and plastic to remove any wax/polish that does get on them. It does an amazing job of removing wax/polish.

You should make sure that your polishing pads are clean. You should not be getting any swirls or scratches in your paint using a DA and #83. I usually follow #83 with #80. It really brings out a nice shine. I have tried #9, but it is pretty mild. I don't use #9 too much since #80 does such a great job.

I've done a number of black cars lately, that have been pretty scratched up. I used #83 with a polishing pad or cutting pad and my rotary. Then finished up with #80 using either the rotary or DA. I would not recommend using a rotary on a black car until you are pretty comfortable with using it.

SkeeterJD
Sep 2nd, 2005, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by RDVT4ME
I would not recommend using a rotary on a black car until you are pretty comfortable with using it.

Believe me, walking through dealerships I see the results when the dealer lets someone not experienced with a rotary work on a black car or any car for that matter. I am a long way from attempting to use a rotary, but I thought a DA was the next best step for me at this point.

Hopefully the #83 and #80 are going to give me the results I want.

I thought the #9 was pretty mild too for what I want to do, but it is in my arsenal and will be brought out first just to see what it can do.

All my pads are brand new and will only be used with one product i.e. one pad for the #83, one pad for #80 etc...

Thanks for the help.

ratcals
Sep 2nd, 2005, 09:57 AM
Scott

I just went back and re-read my post. I suppose I should have edited it for spelling and grammar first. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I only just got my vette about a month ago as well. In fact I just made my first payment yesterday. If I didn't know any better I'd swear from your description we have the same car. The previous owner of mine took it through a car wash. The car is covered in the type of scratches you see on the hood picture. I'm the only one who can see them, but I'm more critical than most people. The lighting and the angle have to be just right to see the scratches but I want to be completely rid of them.


I did use blue painter's tape and it left a noticable mark behind. It wasn't really residue, but from the right angle I could tell there had been something there. I thought painter's tape was designed to leave no evidence of being used behind?

Mike Phillips
Sep 2nd, 2005, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by SkeeterJD
Sorry to double post, but I was also planning on taping a section down my rear quarter panel to compare and contrast. Is this bad for the paint? I wont be taping it to a hot car, but I didn't know if regular packing tape (not the clear stuff like scotch tape) would be okay or not. I really want to see the difference in direct sunlight. My car is washed and waxed in the garage and then reviewed outside.

Thanks again.

Where you apply the tape, upon removing it you will be able to see where the tape was, it will leave a line and the paint will usually look blotchy or dull in that area. No big deal, examine the differences, take your pictures and then polish and wax that area to restore its gloss and shine.

I do this at all the Saturday detailing classes and often times if you look at the before and after photos I post to the write-ups you can see the line.

Only use painters tape to avoid difficulty and problems removing the tape.

Check this thread out...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7293

F-150
Sep 29th, 2005, 06:35 PM
I just got my G100 in the mail and in the process of learning how to use it correctly and I have the swirl remover and speed glaze..the car I was mainly getting the G100 for was my dad's black lexus and it has bad scratches/ swirlmarks and he's been getting weeky washes but hardly ever any waxing/claying or polishing.it's only 2 years old. I'll try to remember to post pictures soon. I didn't know speed glaze was that aggressive...I would've thought the swirl remover would've been more aggressice because the speed glaze came with the package I got from autodetailingsolutions.

Mike Phillips
Sep 29th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by F-150
I didn't know speed glaze was that aggressive...I would've thought the swirl remover would've been more aggressive because the speed glaze came with the package I got from AutoDetailingSolutions.

M80 Speed Glaze is not that aggressive and M09 is very, very gentle. In most cases, unless the paint is very soft of the swirls very shallow, #9 won't remove them unless applied using a rotary buffer.

M80 Speed Glaze is pretty much Bubba-Proof, while still aggressive enough to get the finish to an acceptable level for most people.

Xtreme99_s-Dime
Sep 30th, 2005, 04:09 AM
Yeah,

I've notice on my 1999 black chevy, that if I used #83, I still had a little bit of a micro-marring problem after using it. But I followed it up with a pass of #9, then NXTx2 and DC 3, and now the finish is absolutely perfect. I thought about using #7 after the #9 but thought that it would be overkill.

The nice thing is that after you remove ALL the swirls once, if you maintain the car well, it should only need a light polish like #9, DC 2, or even #7 to keep the swirls out.

Just my .02,

Have fun.

Stephen

Mike Phillips
Sep 30th, 2005, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by Xtreme99_s-Dime
The nice thing is that after you remove ALL the swirls once, if you maintain the car well, it should only need a light polish like #9, DC 2, or even #7 to keep the swirls out.

Just my .02,

Have fun.

Stephen

That's the key...

If the car is a daily driver it's inevitable that you're going to get more fine swirls and scratches, the trick is to have a reliable system down to quickly and easily remove them so you can then go to wax.

Snowman
Sep 30th, 2005, 04:20 AM
^^ Good information because I just realized last night that I have some #9 in my inventory!! But since I currently don't have a DA polisher I can only get the results from hand application. Looking into getting the polisher soon :xyxthumbs

Blr123
Oct 2nd, 2005, 09:16 AM
Hi All,

Are there any pictures showing swirls etc at various stages i.e. some that could be removed using #80 and then some that could not be removed with #80 but could be with #83.............just curious?

Thanks
Bryan

ratcals
Oct 6th, 2005, 11:06 PM
Okay, so I've got my PC DA and the products below to tackle the car wash induced scratches.


#9 Swirl Remover 2.0
#82 Swirl Free Polish
#80 Speed Glaze
#83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish


I figured I would start with the #82 because it's a 2002 Corvette and the paint is quite hard. Well the #82 isn't touching it so I move on to the #80. It helps but still quite a bit of scratches. I was extremely hesistant to use the #83 because I am by no means a professional detailer. But I've got some experience with a DA and haven't messed anything up yet. So I give it a try. I set the DA on '5' and use the 8006 pad. First application I applied very little pressure. After wiping it off I can see a difinite improvement but still some scratches. So I give it another application this time being a little more aggressive. This managed to get rid of about 95% of the scratches. My question is would it be safe to do another application being a little more aggressive or should I seek professional help in the form of a rotary?

Sorry but I didn't take any pictures. It was a horrible overcast day and the lighting was bad.

Thanks, any input/insight appreciated.

Mark

Mike Phillips
Oct 7th, 2005, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by Blr123
Hi All,

Are there any pictures showing swirls etc at various stages i.e. some that could be removed using #80 and then some that could not be removed with #80 but could be with #83.............just curious?

Thanks
Bryan


Actually, many of the before and after pictures of the cars we demonstrate show what your asking. That is we do a side by hand with scratchX and a side with M80 and then pull the car out into the sun to show the results, Always, both side are dramatically improved with the M80 Speed Glaze side looking the best.

There are sometimes swirls left over on both sides and these are the deeper swirls that didn't come out but probably could with either more applications of the same product, or by substituting a more aggresssive product.

Here's an example in the Detail Days at Meguiar's forum... check out page three of this thread...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8443

Mike Phillips
Oct 7th, 2005, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by ratcals
My question is would it be safe to do another application being a little more aggressive or should I seek professional help in the form of a rotary?

Try another application, don't get more aggressive in your pressure, just do like you did before. For you last passes reduce your pressure and do some final/finesse polishing.

Remove any left over residue and then apply the M80 speed Glaze and work the area with it. Again, for your final passes reduce your pressure and make some final/finesse passes.

Stop, inspect go to wax.

Blr123
Oct 7th, 2005, 06:45 AM
Hi all,

Thanks Mike...............that's exactly the information I was after................perfect :xyxthumbs

Now I just have to remember where it is eh :rolleyes:

Thanks
Bryan

ratcals
Oct 7th, 2005, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Mike Phillips

There are sometimes swirls left over on both sides and these are the deeper swirls that didn't come out but probably could with either more applications of the same product, or by substituting a more aggresssive product.


Thanks for the advice. I've reapplied the #83, #80 and did see an improvement but there are still a couple of troublesome scratches. How many times can I apply #83 before I have to worry about depleting the clear coat finish or is this even an issue? I assume it is because to remove a scratch you gotta remove some paint (clear coat) right?


One last thing, why in the world did you guys make #83 smell so good? I LOVE the smell of it, I'm only about two applications away from tasting it. Is anybody else groovin' on the smell? I'll bet it spreads quite nicely on toast- brilliant.

Jeff Smith
Oct 7th, 2005, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by ratcals
Thanks for the advice. I've reapplied the #83, #80 and did see an improvement but there are still a couple of troublesome scratches. How many times can I apply #83 before I have to worry about depleting the clear coat finish or is this even an issue? I assume it is because to remove a scratch you gotta remove some paint (clear coat) right?


One last thing, why in the world did you guys make #83 smell so good? I LOVE the smell of it, I'm only about two applications away from tasting it. Is anybody else groovin' on the smell? I'll bet it spreads quite nicely on toast- brilliant.

Hehe, I am that way about #7. Not because of the smell but because of what it does and it's ease of use.

OK Mike, FOOD for thought here. Call Product Development fast. We need edible products. That's it, call it Lunch & Wax. Dang, I am a genious. I am retiring and going into the business.

Mike Phillips
Oct 7th, 2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by ratcals
Thanks for the advice. I've reapplied the #83, #80 and did see an improvement but there are still a couple of troublesome scratches. How many times can I apply #83 before I have to worry about depleting the clear coat finish or is this even an issue? I assume it is because to remove a scratch you gotta remove some paint (clear coat) right?



Here's the deal, you need to decide your level of expectation, balanced against reality.

It's okay to want a perfect finish. If this is a daily driver, reality is it will probably get more scratches in the future. So as you have figured out, you can't keep on removing scratches forever.

You can balance this desire and expectations for a flawless finish with the fact that you're probably the type of person that will be very cognizant of your car and take very good care of it after polishing it to perfection.

Anyway, if the above describes you, the continue trying to remove all the scratches that remain as long as they are not noticeably too deep and then go on to the polishing and waxing steps.

There are times when you will need to learn to live with some scratches if for no other reason because their location makes it difficult to remove them completely.