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00GREENMACHINE
Sep 28th, 2005, 04:18 PM
I have been told that my VW clear coat is pretty hard. I have some minor scratches and moderate swirls I want to take out. I bought the lake city white,orange and black pads. I also have the 4" yellow and white spot pads for scratch removal. I have tried DACP with little to no results. I can get some scratches out with VM but thats really a polish with some cleaning abilities. I have tried Poorboys SSR2.5 with some results. I would be using the orange pad because the yellow is only 4". What can you suggest I try sample wise to get the job done. The color of the car is Black.

Also do I need to use 50/50 water and Distilled Vinegar to clean after doing the panel?

Mike Phillips
Sep 28th, 2005, 05:07 PM
If you're not seeing any results using M83 with a dual action polisher then either the pad you're using isn't right for the job, you're not using good technique, or the paint is hard enough that you'll need to go more aggressive.

Here's an example,

I tried a couple of test spots today on this 2002 Mercedes-Benz Kompressor, in order of testing,

M80/W-8006/G100/SS 5.0
M83/W-8006/G100/SS 5.0


After both of these test and pulling the car out into the sun to inspect, while both remove light swirls and the M83 did the best job of the, it didn't meet my expectations so I switched over to the rotary buffer and tried M84/W-7006 at around 1200 RPM and this combination is removing everything I'm comfortable with removing.

Sometimes you just have do a little testing to find a system that gives you the results you want and you also have to remember that the dual action polisher has its limits.

Swirls to be removed

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2KcarSwirlsinRoof1.jpg

Cropped out section from the above photo

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2KcarSwirlsinRoof1cp.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2KcarSwirlHood1.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2KcarSwirlDecklid1.jpg

00GREENMACHINE
Sep 29th, 2005, 02:29 AM
Mike any suggestions on technique? I am very impatient. Is M83 the same as DACP? WHat color pad did you use. What pad would you recommend from meguairs?

Mike Phillips
Sep 29th, 2005, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by 00GREENMACHINE
Mike any suggestions on technique? I am very impatient. Is M83 the same as DACP? What color pad did you use. What pad would you recommend from Meguiar's?

Well impatience and the art of polishing paint don't really go together very well. The full name of M83 is M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish, so some people refer to it as #83 and some people refer to it as DACP, either way works.

Meguiar's recommends our W-8006 polishing pad for use with the M83 and that's about as aggressive as we recommend you go when using a dual action polisher. If this comb is not removing the defects then it's time to learn to live with the defects, take your car to a pro that knows what they're doing, (hard to find), or learn how to use a rotary buffer.


From my experience teaching the detailing classes on Saturday's here at Meguiar's the biggest reasons most people don't see good results when trying to remove defects out of the paint using a dual action polisher are,


* They try to work to large of an area at one time 16" x 16" or spread out an average size microfiber polishing cloth and this is as large of an area you want to work at one time.
* They don't use enough downward pressure
* The move the polisher way to fast over the surface
* They don't buff long enough


Removing defects with a rotary buffer is fast because of the direct drive nature of the tool. Removing defects using a dual action polisher is slow because of the nature of the tool.

In the wrong hands the rotary buffer is dangerous. The dual action polisher is pretty much fool proof and bubba proof in that you can't hurt your paint because it's so gentle. Because it's so gentle it's not fast at removing defects.

Make sense?

Mike Phillips
Sep 29th, 2005, 04:10 AM
Read through this thread, it does a very good job of explaining what can and what cannot be done with a dual action polisher.

PC + #83 not "Cutting" it! - The Limits of the Dual Action Polisher (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3056)

Accumulator
Sep 29th, 2005, 08:48 AM
00GREENMACHINE- I might've posted this on the thread Mike linked to, if so "sorry for repeating myself".

If the 4" yellow pad/#83 won't cut it, you've hit the wall with regard to using the PC with Meguiar's products. That's assuming the 4" yellow is the LC brand cutting pad. Switching to a larger pad will only be less effective.

There are more aggressive products from other makers that are supposed to work with the PC, and I've used a few of them, but I'd rather see you use a rotary and mild products. Otherwise, I'd genuinely recommend that you just learn to live with the imperfections.

If the clear on your VW is the same as the clear on my Audis, you're gonna need a rotary to *really* correct it. Voice of experience (I've spent *days* trying different things by PC on this paint). Trying to do "rotary work with a PC" on hard paint is basically fruitless and trying to use more aggressive products than the PC can break down is asking for worse trouble than you have now.