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tumbler
Nov 3rd, 2005, 05:01 PM
in my quest to move fully away from carrying around 2 machines, (rotary for compound work, porter cable for sealant application), i am trying to use my rotary solely.

how many of you apply pre sealants, and sealants with your rotary..?

i'm about to pick up the white, black and possibly the new red pad (all 7.5") from properautocare.

what's a good meg's pre-sealant to take advantage of the white pad ?

what's a good sealant to take advantage of the black pad ? (I was thinking #20 ?)

your thoughts ? your suggestions ?

thanks so much once again..

Mike Phillips
Nov 3rd, 2005, 05:16 PM
If your last step procedure is to apply a paint protectant using a rotary buffer, you results will sooner or later show up as swirls in the finish.

tumbler
Nov 3rd, 2005, 05:30 PM
wow.. very interesting to read .. thanks..

i guess that begs the question, why these folks sell these pads and tell a different story..

i guess 2 machines it is..

thanks Mike

but what i was intending was something like using the white pad with #3 machine glaze..

so not even that ?

Wally
Nov 3rd, 2005, 08:52 PM
I always do last steps, as many others I think, by hand...

Tim Lingor
Nov 4th, 2005, 04:11 AM
Hey,

While you can use a rotary for applying certain approved for rotary use LSP's (that was a mouthful!), Mike's comment is very valid. By the nature of the machine, the odds are that you will instill slight buffer marks while the DA will not. As such, I usually use the rotary for compounding and polishing, but use a DA for final finishing.

Using a DA for final product application and removal will provide a higher quality compared to applying it by hand. While hand application looks great, the DA takes it one step further. :)

Tim

SpoiledMan
Nov 4th, 2005, 04:17 AM
I beg to differ on this one. I have been using the 9006 pads on a rotary to do final polishing on my personal car in recent weeks. These pads have pretty much NO cut and therefore depend on the product to do the work. *In my experience* there is no change to the surface as long as proper technique is followed and the sealant is compatible with rotary application.

Next time I see you Mike, I'll show ya!;)

tumbler
Nov 4th, 2005, 04:33 AM
this is what i'm getting at ?

I have to see how at speed 1000rpm with a black or red pad will create swirls ?

SpoiledMan
Nov 4th, 2005, 04:55 AM
You got me on the pads you're talking about. What are they?

tumbler
Nov 4th, 2005, 04:59 AM
see here

<http://www.properautocare.com/ad712inhipa.html>

Accumulator
Nov 4th, 2005, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by tumbler
I have to see how at speed 1000rpm with a black or red pad will create swirls ?

I'd back the speed down even lower if I were gonna try this. The pad itself will still have some frictional/abrasive qualities at that speed. Not saying it won't/can't work (and certainly not challenging SpoiledMan), but I agree with Mike that some day you're gonna get some holograms/etc. and you'll end up having to repolish the vehicle (and time is money ;) ).

IIRC #3 was originally designed for rotary use, and I applied similar glazes to new cars with a rotary back in the day. Every now and then there was an "oops!", though I usually said a different word when it happened to me ;)

tumbler
Nov 4th, 2005, 06:18 AM
well there seems to be more CONS and than PROS ..

so i'm sticking with a two machine process

thanks again guys

Mike Phillips
Nov 4th, 2005, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by SpoiledMan
I beg to differ on this one. I have been using the 9006 pads on a rotary to do final polishing on my personal car in recent weeks. These pads have pretty much NO cut and therefore depend on the product to do the work. *In my experience* there is no change to the surface as long as proper technique is followed and the sealant is compatible with rotary application.

Next time I see you Mike, I'll show ya!;)


When you inspect for swirls after using the rotary buffer to apply a wax, you typically don't strip the wax off chemically because that would defeat the purpose of applying the wax.

What I'm alluding to is that if your last step procedure is to machine apply a product with a rotary buffer, the rotating action of the pad in contact with the finish has the potential to leave a swirls or holograms in the finish, but until some of the wax wears off you may not be able to see them.

So to insure that there are no swirls in the finish after time goes by and the wax wears off, the best chance at creating a swirl free finish is to make your last machine procedure be with a dual action polisher and not a rotary buffer.

I have a write-up coming along where each step of the way I chemically stripped the finish to show the results of the rotary buffer and in my opinion when the right products are used and the right technique, the results are impressive, but I still finished off the process using a dual action polisher after the rotary buffer to insure the customer would be happy the day they picked up the car and 2-3 months down the road.

I'll be in the office on Monday to conduct a special class for some visitors from Norway, if you can come by at lunch. If not, the following two weekends I'll be holding classes for the Prius clubs and a Corvette club, feel free to come by either of those...

Mike Phillips
Nov 4th, 2005, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by tumbler
well there seems to be more CONS and than PROS ..

so i'm sticking with a two machine process

thanks again guys

No problemo... :)

tumbler
Nov 4th, 2005, 06:44 AM
:( sniff, sniff.. too bad i'm too far away in toronto canada or i'd be there

Don
Nov 4th, 2005, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by tumbler
well there seems to be more CONS and than PROS ..

so i'm sticking with a two machine process

thanks again guys

As long as your technique with the rotary is good, you should only have to do one pass with a final light polish before waxing/sealing. There's not much difference between 4 steps with a rotary and 2 steps with a rotary followed by 2 with a PC (especially if the pads are interchangable), other than by using the PC for the final light polishing you'll get the best finish possible.

SpoiledMan
Nov 4th, 2005, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Mike Phillips
When you inspect for swirls after using the rotary buffer to apply a wax, you typically don't strip the wax off chemically because that would defeat the purpose of applying the wax.

What I'm alluding to is that if your last step procedure is to machine apply a product with a rotary buffer, the rotating action of the pad in contact with the finish has the potential to leave a swirls or holograms in the finish, but until some of the wax wears off you may not be able to see them.

Im looking at it from this standpoint. If I can perfect a surface with a W9006 and a light abrasive polish why wouldn't I be able to maintain that perfect surface when applying an LSP that has no abrasive qualities with a W9006?


I'll be in the office on Monday to conduct a special class for some visitors from Norway, if you can come by at lunch. If not, the following two weekends I'll be holding classes for the Prius clubs and a Corvette club, feel free to come by either of those...

I wish I could but between the winter protection and the kids, I don't have a free weekend until late December!

I will give it a go and see if I can capture something in pictures. I wont name any products but will keep it to the process. That sound cool?

Mike Phillips
Nov 4th, 2005, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by SpoiledMan
I'm looking at it from this standpoint. If I can perfect a surface with a W9006 and a light abrasive polish why wouldn't I be able to maintain that perfect surface when applying an LSP that has no abrasive qualities with a W9006?



Well on paper, or rather in pixels, ;) that sounds right and sounds doable, but in reality, I just haven't seen it, at least not over time.

But I'm open to seeing it... :)