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Prophecy
May 2nd, 2004, 10:43 PM
I was reading an article on how some Products (maybe ArmorALL) or other interior cleaners may actually cause your dash board to crack.

The way it was explained was, if the cleaning agent has too much water or silicone it will absorb into material and can sweat. Causing the dash board material to expand and crack.

Anybody know more about this and how does Meguiars compare?

Maybe somebody from Meguiars can provide some numbers of the water % or silicone % of their products and maybe their competitors.

Thanks

Proph

Mike Phillips
May 3rd, 2004, 09:17 AM
I'll check into this, I know a lot of people have the same question.

Mike

2000
May 18th, 2004, 06:41 AM
wondering if anyone found a answer to those questions and also I would like to add a question.
when you apply protectant and than wipe down with a mf to cut the shine down, did you remove said protectant or does the dash absorb the product like leather does?

Aurora40
May 18th, 2004, 06:55 AM
Well, most auto manufacturers suggest using only water to clean the dash. It's hard to imagine water breaking down vinyl. But what do I know... :)

2000
May 18th, 2004, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by Aurora40
Well, most auto manufacturers suggest using only water to clean the dash. It's hard to imagine water breaking down vinyl. But what do I know... :)

I think, if your refer to the cracking, its the padding underneath the vinyl breaking down and causing the vinyl to fail, but thats just a quess.

Prophecy
May 18th, 2004, 07:17 AM
Does the Meguiars staff actually read these forums or do they have represenetives just check it out? No offense to anyone of course but Ive noticed that you really dont see much answers coming straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

Just wondering

Proph

TwoTooBlack
May 18th, 2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Prophecy
Does the Meguiars staff actually read these forums or do they have represenetives just check it out? No offense to anyone of course but Ive noticed that you really dont see much answers coming straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

Just wondering

Proph

Mike Phillips is Meguiars staff. If you look at the online members detail day postings, he's the guy with the black shirt and the PC making that red viper shine. Having met Mike, he is excellent at sharing his knowlege and knowing what he doesn't know, in which case he checks with the chemists or others who DO know.

So, yes, Meg's staff is VERY active in the forum.:bigups

Mike Phillips
May 18th, 2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Prophecy
Does the Mequiar's staff actually read these forums or do they have Representatives just check it out? No offense to anyone of course but Ive noticed that you really don't see much answers coming straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

Just wondering

Proph

Hi Proph,

Sorry for the absence lately, I was at three different events last week, all miles apart.

Friday - Lake Tahoe - Porsche Tech Session for the Boxter Club (Left house at 5:00am returned home at 1:30am)
Saturday - Irvine - Viper2 Detail Day at Mequiar's (Up at 4:30am returned home at 11:PM)
Sunday - San Diego Plastic Fantastic Corvette Show (up at 4:30 am, arrived home at 8:PM)
Monday - Catch up on e-mail (Lots of it too!)

So while not typical of a work week, this kind of schedule didn't allow for much time to post to the forum.

I have an e-mail sent out with some question on vinyl as I typed this response. When I receive some feedback, I'll post back to this thread.

Mike

Antonio Wright
Jun 9th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Hi Proph,

Sorry for the absence lately, I was at three different events last week, all miles apart.

Friday - Lake Tahoe - Porsche Tech Session for the Boxter Club (Left house at 5:00am returned home at 1:30am)
Saturday - Irvine - Viper2 Detail Day at Mequiar's (Up at 4:30am returned home at 11:PM)
Sunday - San Diego Plastic Fantastic Corvette Show (up at 4:30 am, arrived home at 8:PM)
Monday - Catch up on e-mail (Lots of it too!)

So while not typical of a work week, this kind of schedule didn't allow for much time to post to the forum.

I have an e-mail sent out with some question on vinyl as I typed this response. When I receive some feedback, I'll post back to this thread.

Mike

Any update on this?

Mike Phillips
Jun 9th, 2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Antonio Wright
Any update on this?

Yes.

Here's Prophecy's orginal questions/post...



Originally posted by Antonio Wright
Any update on this?

Yes.

Here's Prophecy's original questions/post...


Originally posted by Prophecy
I was reading an article on how some Products (maybe Armor ALL) or other interior cleaners may actually cause your dash board to crack.

The way it was explained was, if the cleaning agent has too much water or silicone it will absorb into material and can sweat. Causing the dash board material to expand and crack.

First of all, modern plastic dashes, (this includes vinyl, which is a type of plastic), are far more advanced in their chemistry than vinyl dashes 30, 20 and even 10 years ago. Just like most things, when new technology comes along to make a product better, most companies adopt it. I can’t say that I have seen too many dashes on modern cars crack.

The way older vinyl dashes were made, a Plasticizer was included in the vinyl to help make the plastic soft, elastic and flexible. Over time, and exposure to heat and direct sunlight, the plasticizers in the vinyl break down, deteriorate and the vinyl becomes hard and brittle and susceptible to cracking instead of flexing.

Some vinyl protectants in the past used a plasticizer in their formula to soften the vinyl to make it flexible, and keep it flexible. Here was the problem with that, there’s an old saying, ”Like products dissolve like products”, this was the case with the plasticizer in some protectant products, it had a tendency to dissolve and leach out the vinyl’s original plasticizers prematurely thus accelerating the deterioration process. This could lead to cracking in vinyl dashes because the vinyl became more brittle and hard.

An analogy is your finger nails. When your fingernails are hard and brittle, they will crack. After exposing them to water for an extended period of time, shower, swimming, bath, hot tub, etc. your fingernails become soft and flexible, much less prone to cracking or breaking. Because of new technology used to make plastics, plasticizers in products are no longer an issue.

Meguiar’s vinyl products contain no plasticizers.

Meguiar’s vinyl products don’t use any ingredients that are harmful to vinyl, and in fact just the opposite. Some of Meguiar’s vinyl protectants contain safe and gentle chemical cleaners to help clean the vinyl so you don’t seal and trap dirt and dust into the surface. Meguiar’s M-40 Vinyl & Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?parentURL=index_pro.cfm&sku=M-40) is an example of a vinyl protectant that contains a safe chemical cleaner.

Other ingredients used in Meguiar’s vinyl products are in their to block out UV rays which fade the vinyl by breaking down the pigments used to give vinyl it’s color. Some ingredients add protection by leaving behind a coating that water proofs vinyl and prevents staining. Specialized ingredients penetrate into the vinyl and create beauty while helping to maintain flexibility. Other ingredients, such as silicones are added to create shine.

By the way, Meguiar’s uses no harmful silicones in any of the products. Silicones are inert, they have no negative effect to the surface or material they are applied to. In some formulas they ad shine, in some formulas the improve application and removal which is a benefit to the user.


Anybody know more about this and how does Meguiar’s compare?

Maybe somebody from Meguiar’s can provide some numbers of the water % or silicone % of their products and maybe their competitors.

Thanks

Proph

Under R&D, I am under strict restriction that will not let me share proprietary information. I am not allowed to discuss formula ingredients specifically, or formulas in general. Competitors watch Meguiar’s like hawks, always looking for ways to obtain information, or advantage. So while I’m interested in how things work, and I know all of you are interested in how things work, there is only so much information I can relate and after that, you simply must try for yourself, the product, or products in question and determine with your eyes whether or not you like the results.

In some cases, you must place your trust in a company and have faith that the ingredients in a product are the finest ingredients available, and included in a formula for a specific purpose. In the case of Meguiar’s products, the ingredients used in any particular formula are chosen because they are either beneficial to the surface, or beneficial to the procedure.

Example of beneficial to the surface: Meguiar’s trade secret conditioning oils are beneficial to the surface of paint by creating gloss, filling pores and other microscopic imperfections, as well as lubricating the surface during the application and removal process.

Example of beneficial to the procedure: Meguiar’s Nikken Finishing papers contain uniform particles of grit that leave behind a uniform sanding marks that buff out quickly, easily and evenly. So while sandpaper in one instance isn’t beneficial to the surface, it is beneficial to the procedure. Meguiar’s Nikken Finishing Papers result in a creating show car finishes while leaving behind the maximum amount of film build, not to mention reducing time, labor and expense in creating show car finishes for body shop technicians.

You must trust that if the ingredients were not beneficial to the surface, or to the procedure, then in Meguiar’s case, they would not have been included. The fact that they are present… means they are either beneficial to the surface, or to the procedure.

With that said, Meguiar’s offers the best money back guarantee in the business and backs it up! If your ever unhappy with any Meguiar’s product you can either return it to the store at which you purchased it, or call Meguiar’s Customer Care Hotline and our expert team of people will completely take care of you.


Hope this helps…

Mike

scrub
Jun 9th, 2004, 04:50 PM
Darn!! Nice reply Mike.

gb387
Jun 9th, 2004, 05:43 PM
nice write up, very interesitng!

2000
Jun 10th, 2004, 07:55 AM
thank you!:xyxthumbs

darkhorse
Jun 30th, 2004, 04:19 AM
Mike, YOU ROCK:xyxthumbs Just by taking the time out of your schedule to give us updates and encouragement places you and Meguiars ahead of the rest. Thanks!

Tim Lingor
Jun 30th, 2004, 05:34 AM
Hey Mike,

Great write-up!!! :xyxthumbs

I really appreciate how hard you work to make MOL such a great place to be!!! You da man!!!! :)


Tim

mopar
Jul 4th, 2004, 06:57 AM
good post.i only use megs vinyl products .Everything else just leaves a haze on the inside of my windsheild.

akimel
May 5th, 2009, 06:38 PM
I stumbled upon this thread by accident and thought that Mike's lengthy post deserved a ...

:bump1