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**KTruck** · May 5, 2004, 07:15 AM

NXT Longevity

Hi:

I actually liked the cleaners/mild abrasives it contains but was dissapointed in the longevity and looks I received compared to what I have been using in the past (Zaino).

I have never really found what I would call an accurate method to determine a waxes longevity.

What “yard stick” are you using for your comparison? Just curious about how you came to your conclusion about NXT.

Regards,

KTruck

**agentf1** · May 5, 2004, 08:29 AM

One of the ways I measure it is by the beading or ability to dry the car after a wash. With Zaino or freshly applied NXT when I blow dry it with my toro 220 mph leaf blower it comes almost perfectly dry with the exception of a few drops. After a few weeks with NXT it just sheets and the sheeting even seems real thick and is a pain in the butt to get dry, another is looks, it seems to be losing its good looks real quick and also feels very rough where a towel won't slide across the paint easily. I am also seeing things/dirt sticking to the surface more. I know it is not scientific but one of the reasons I keep my cars polished is so they wash up easily and look great all the time.

**Gadfly** · May 5, 2004, 10:09 AM

NXT Durability

My experience with NXT is just the opposite. I applied NXT to my wife's silver spruce Avalon about a month ago. Today, after 55K service at Toyota, the car was washed by the dealer. On the way home there were some very light showers (rain) and the car beaded quite nicely.

As soon as I finish this post, I'll S&W the car and apply another coat of NXT. I really like the looks of NXT on this car!

**2000** · May 5, 2004, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by agentf1
. I am also seeing things/dirt sticking to the surface more. I. [/B]

do you mean dust and air borne contaminates or stuff you drive though? I seem to get allot more dust with nxt, Next time I'm going to use #26 again and see if it's just my imaganition or if it really does get more dust.

After a few weeks with NXT it just sheets

I could be wrong but I thought nxt was suppose to sheet to help with waterspots. just something I thought I read so don't qoute me on that.

**agentf1** · May 5, 2004, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by 2000
do you mean dust and air borne contaminates or stuff you drive though? I seem to get allot more dust with nxt, Next time I'm going to use #26 again and see if it's just my imaganition or if it really does get more dust..

Air borne contaminates or stuff you drive though. My cars are black so they all attract dust especially this time of year with the pollen.

I could be wrong but I thought nxt was suppose to sheet to help with waterspots. just something I thought I read so don't qoute me on that.

It beads at first and after a few washings looks and feels as if it is totally gone. Makes it hard to dry.

**2000** · May 5, 2004, 01:57 PM

haven't any of the water problems but I wax my constantly so I wouldn't get a chance to notice that. as for the dust , do you think it's worst?

**Mike Phillips** · May 5, 2004, 09:56 PM

Hi Agentf1,

Yes I read your posts on CorvetteForum, and possibly elsewhere. I've been kind of busy the last few days so sorry for the late response.

A couple of notes,

To date, I have never experienced the results your seeing, in fact, just the opposite. So I don't know what to tell you about what you're seeing. Luckily for me, I usually have a lot of other people around to look at the results also, so I know it's not just my eyes.

As far as Zaino goes, I have had quite a few cars come across the Training Garage floor, and every time a Zaino finish comes in, it always leaves looking deeper, darker, glossier, more reflective and more clear, bar none.

If Zaino made paint look better than Tech Wax, I would be knocking on Sal's door, but it doesn't.

Zaino beads water really well, I'll give it that. Everyone attributes this beading ability to protection and durability. I don't think the protection can be proved, if it continues to bead water, one wash after another, then that would prove durability, (as in the ingredient that is causing high surface tension is not washing off), but durability and protection are two different things.

Because of this post, I will retest the Z2 and the Z5 for durability after a couple of washes. I tried this before using the Zaino car wash to wash Z2 with ZFX on a Acura Legend, and the beading ability dramatically fell off after just one wash. After seeing this, I figured either the Zaino car wash was a pretty strong cleaning wash, or the ingredient that causes high surface tension doesn’t bond to the surface very well.

As far as appearance goes, here's an interesting observation one of our chemist made after we tested 7 popular waxes,

Products tested

* Zaino Z2 with ZFX
* Poorboy’s Carnauba EX
* BlackFire
* Pinnacle Souveran Paste
* Klasse SG
* NXT Tech Wax
* 4 Star UPP
* Control Square

On our black paint panel, (clear coat over black base), NXT won hands down over the competitors for turning producing the darkest and the clearest results. I stood on a ladder and took about a dozen photos looking down on the panel and it is so easy to tell which section was the darkest.

Then, after washing 2, 3, 4 times, the appearance of all the waxes fell off. Tech wax fell the furthest because it obtained the highest level of results.

The point is this, all appearance results fell off with repeated washings and no further applications of product. Because Tech Wax took the results to the highest level, it had the most distance on a beauty appearance scale to fall back down. But if you’re looking for the product that will take our finish to it’s maximum potential, and you’re willing to maintain it, then Tech Wax will do that. (By the way, you will have to maintain the results any company’s wax produces in order to maintain the level, or plateau it achieves).

For some products, if they don't dramatically darken the finish, then the results don't have much room to fall off. Does that make sense? (I'll see if I can post the pictures)

I guess it comes down to finding a product you like and using it often. If you like it, then apparently it looks good in your eyes. If you use it often, then your finish will always look great.

It's the using it often portion of the above that will sustain the appearance level of whatever your using at a maximum level.

Tech Wax does start out beading water fairly well, but it also sheets water, even right after application if you spray the water just right.

While I have never seen the milky looking results you describe on your black corvette, I trust that if you say it's happening, then it's happening. I have recently worked on a number of black cars, including Corvettes and to date, I have never experienced your results, so maybe it's an isolated problem?

I have a 1993 Corvette coming to our Corporate office this Monday that I am doing a before and after on for this year's Plastic Fantastic.

Right here and now, I will openly invite any members of Corvette Forum, Meguiar's Online, and Autopia, to come on down to Meguiar’s and watch, or even help me out to detail this car and then see if we see what agentf1 is seeing on his car. We can even play with the Zaino products if anyone wants to also.

I am leaving one half of the hood exactly as it is so everyone at the Plastic Fantastic can see the before and after, side by side results however.

So I'll post this on Corvette Forum, and to Autopia, and I would encourage anyone that is interested to stop on by and check it out.

Also, agentf1, I have a number of Corvette Clinics coming up in the future, if you'll pay for your own air fare, Meguiar's will pay for your hotel and food, so you can come on down and attend the event. I'll make sure we roll out the red carpet. Here's the one you should try to attend,

Members of CorvetteForum Detail Day at Meguiar’s

Other than that, from the feedback I see all over the Internet, the pictures I keep seeing posted, and the phone calls and e-mails that come into Meguiar's, I'll have to say that the results that people are getting with NXT Tech Wax are overwhelmingly positive and the results you're getting are the exception.

Mike

**2000** · May 6, 2004, 05:21 AM

After yesterdays post I went to the garage and Qd the hood, Took #82 buy hand to get some of the wax off. did half with nxt and half with #26. couldn't really see a difference in the garage and it was dark outside so inside lighting I would say they both have the same apperence. NXT has a better feel to it Imo. alittle slicker.
and as I was afraid to admitt, already this morning, both sides of the hood was full of dust. Its my garage and not the wax. I could see no difference in dust repellent from either one, but I can now say for sure that its an outside influence.

**agentf1** · May 6, 2004, 08:57 AM

First, I should probably apologize for coming over here on your/Meguiars forum and tooting the Zaino horn the way I did but the fact remains that Zaino is what I was using and is the leading synthetic polish right now that everybody is using as a baseline and comparing Tech wax too.

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Hi Agentf1,

Yes I read your posts on CorvetteForum, and possibly elsewhere. I've been kind of busy the last few days so sorry for the late response.

No problem, I can relate.

A couple of notes,

To date, I have never experienced the results your seeing, in fact, just the opposite. So I don't know what to tell you about what you're seeing. Luckily for me, I usually have a lot of other people around to look at the results also, so I know it's not just my eyes.

As far as Zaino goes, I have had quite a few cars come across the Training Garage floor, and every time a Zaino finish comes in, it always leaves looking deeper, darker, glossier, more reflective and more clear, bar none.

I should probably give a little background here. I was Meguiars biggest fan for years (still am) and used #26 on all my cars with excellent results until I started hearing about Zaino. I eventually broke down and tried it and was literally shocked at how amazing the result were, I have never seen any product that was so much different in looks than anything else I have ever tried and I am super picky/anal about my cars finish. I know, I am tooting that horn again, sorry. My wife and neighbors were also just as amazed as me and even started using Zaino. I know looks are subjective but I have to say on black the difference was amazing.

If Zaino made paint look better than Tech Wax, I would be knocking on Sal's door, but it doesn't.

4057 Hwy 9 N #106 • Howell, NJ 07731 • info@zainobros.com
Customer Service / Phone Orders 888-999-9870 • Tech Support Only 732-833-8800

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Probably a poor attempt at humor.

Zaino beads water really well, I'll give it that. Everyone attributes this beading ability to protection and durability. I don't think the protection can be proved, if it continues to bead water, one wash after another, then that would prove durability, (as in the ingredient that is causing high surface tension is not washing off), but durability and protection are two different things.

If durability and protection are two different things, explain to me the difference between the two and when it stops beading how do I know that I am still being protected? To quote the NXT box, "Our new ESP (Engineered Synthetic Polymers) technology creates a
tougher, polymer bond to your paint so it can provide extreme
protection. And that also means extreme beading action. This is now the
long-lasting car wax we make." If beading does not mean anything, why does Meguiars emphasize it on the NXT box? To me, Meguiars equates water beading to protection!

Because of this post, I will retest the Z2 and the Z5 for durability after a couple of washes. I tried this before using the Zaino car wash to wash Z2 with ZFX on a Acura Legend, and the beading ability dramatically fell off after just one wash. After seeing this, I figured either the Zaino car wash was a pretty strong cleaning wash, or the ingredient that causes high surface tension doesn’t bond to the surface very well.

I find that Zaino continues to bead for months. My vehicles wash up easily and blow dry easily and look as good as the day they were Zaino'd wash after wash.

As far as appearance goes, here's an interesting observation one of our chemist made after we tested 7 popular waxes,

Products tested

* Zaino Z2 with ZFX
* Poorboy’s Carnauba EX
* BlackFire
* Pinnacle Souveran Paste
* Klasse SG
* NXT Tech Wax
* 4 Star UPP
* Control Square

On our black paint panel, (clear coat over black base), NXT won hands down over the competitors for turning producing the darkest and the clearest results. I stood on a ladder and took about a dozen photos looking down on the panel and it is so easy to tell which section was the darkest.

Then, after washing 2, 3, 4 times, the appearance of all the waxes fell off. Tech wax fell the furthest because it obtained the highest level of results.

The point is this, all appearance results fell off with repeated washings and no further applications of product. Because Tech Wax took the results to the highest level, it had the most distance on a beauty appearance scale to fall back down. But if you’re looking for the product that will take our finish to it’s maximum potential, and you’re willing to maintain it, then Tech Wax will do that. (By the way, you will have to maintain the results any company’s wax produces in order to maintain the level, or plateau it achieves).

For some products, if they don't dramatically darken the finish, then the results don't have much room to fall off. Does that make sense? (I'll see if I can post the pictures)

I guess it comes down to finding a product you like and using it often. If you like it, then apparently it looks good in your eyes. If you use it often, then your finish will always look great.

It's the using it often portion of the above that will sustain the appearance level of whatever your using at a maximum level.
Tech Wax does start out beading water fairly well, but it also sheets water, even right after application if you spray the water just right.

Every product I have used does this. That is how I dry my cars after washing, I take the nozzle off the hose a let the water flow over the surface so it sheets and there are less drops on the surface. I can almost get the car perfectly dry doing this before I even touch it with a towel or leaf blower.

While I have never seen the milky looking results you describe on your black corvette, I trust that if you say it's happening, then it's happening. I have recently worked on a number of black cars, including Corvettes and to date, I have never experienced your results, so maybe it's an isolated problem?

I have a 1993 Corvette coming to our Corporate office this Monday that I am doing a before and after on for this year's Plastic Fantastic.

Right here and now, I will openly invite any members of Corvette Forum, Meguiar's Online, and Autopia, to come on down to Meguiar’s and watch, or even help me out to detail this car and then see if we see what agentf1 is seeing on his car. We can even play with the Zaino products if anyone wants to also.

I am leaving one half of the hood exactly as it is so everyone at the Plastic Fantastic can see the before and after, side by side results however.

So I'll post this on Corvette Forum, and to Autopia, and I would encourage anyone that is interested to stop on by and check it out.

Also, agentf1, I have a number of Corvette Clinics coming up in the future, if you'll pay for your own air fare, Meguiar's will pay for your hotel and food, so you can come on down and attend the event. I'll make sure we roll out the red carpet. Here's the one you should try to attend,

Members of CorvetteForum Detail Day at Meguiar’s

Other than that, from the feedback I see all over the Internet, the pictures I keep seeing posted, and the phone calls and e-mails that come into Meguiar's, I'll have to say that the results that people are getting with NXT Tech Wax are overwhelmingly positive and the results you're getting are the exception.

Mike [/B]

As for your offer to come to California for a Detail Day, that is incredibly generous, I am a big enough fanatic that I would take you up on your offer if it wasn't for my company looking into outsourcing and me being unsure how long I will actually have a job.

In conclusion, if my car does not seem to wash up easily and dirt seems to be starting to stick on the surface and the looks are degrading I feel the product is not doing its job.

**agentf1** · May 10, 2004, 06:48 AM

ttt

**Mike Phillips** · May 10, 2004, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by agentf1
ttt

You'll have to help me out with this one?

ttt

I have know idea what that means...

As far as the rest of your other message goes,

If Zaino works for you on your cars, then that's the best product for you. Like I have been saying for at least 15 years now,

"Find something you like and use it often"

If you like it, then the results your product of choice is creating must look good. If you use it often, then your car's finish should always look great!

The best wax/polish debate is always going to come down to personal preference by each individual user. The best thing anyone can do if they're unsure, is to purchase the product and test it for themselves.

The hardest test to pass is black paint in full sun. To this date, I have not found a product that will create the results that Tech Wax will create with two thin coats, after the proper prep work has been performed in a wide range of appearance results categories. This includes, darkness, gloss, shine, depth, reflectivity, and swirl elimination. I would take Tech Wax up against any other product on the market, and in fact have done just that.

How long will a product last, and how well will a product protect? There are too many variables to make a definitive guarantee and any wax company that does make a definitive guarantee is usually playing off gullible consumers. When it comes to the enthusiasts side of the car hobby, i.e. serious enthusiasts who like to do everything within their limits, to take their car’s finish to its maximum potential, here’s what I have noticed over the years,

No one ever goes up to someone at a car show, and after looking over their car, says to the owner,

"That sure is some mighty fine looking protection you have on your car!"

I just don't ever see that happening. What I do see happening is this,

"Wow! Your paint looks great, like it's wet!, what kind of wax do you use?"

Point being, if the wax or polish, you're using is giving you the above kind of results, then by all means use it. For most serious enthusiasts, when it comes to choosing their car care products, it comes down to the final appearance results, in other words, how well does the product perform? People that are crazy about cars, usually take better care of them than the average person and this means they wash, clean, polish, protect and maintain their car’s finish often. When this is the case, then protection isn’t an issue because they are maintaining their car’s finish often, and usually parking under cover so that the finish is not continually exposed to environmental attack.

~agentf1~ – I do appreciate your passion, and your enthusiasm in your search for the perfect shine, I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts, results, and opinions on Meguiar’s forum, as well as other forums. Everyone is different, and because our paint types, as well as the condition of our car’s paint are also different, not to mention each individual’s skill level and passion for the craft, I don’t think one company’s products are ever going to win over 100% of all the people. It just isn’t going to happen. It’s a nice idea, and worthwhile goal, but realistically, there is always room for another point of view.

So… the best we can do as individuals is to find something that each of us likes, and use it often, or once in a while, whatever works best for you.

Mike

**agentf1** · May 10, 2004, 09:00 AM

ttt means "to the top". I was hoping to get an answer to my question. Protection is an issue for me since some of my cars sit outside.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zaino beads water really well, I'll give it that. Everyone attributes this beading ability to protection and durability. I don't think the protection can be proved, if it continues to bead water, one wash after another, then that would prove durability, (as in the ingredient that is causing high surface tension is not washing off), but durability and protection are two different things.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If durability and protection are two different things, explain to me the difference between the two and when it stops beading how do I know that I am still being protected? To quote the NXT box, "Our new ESP (Engineered Synthetic Polymers) technology creates a
tougher, polymer bond to your paint so it can provide extreme
protection. And that also means extreme beading action. This is now the
long-lasting car wax we make." If beading does not mean anything, why does Meguiars emphasize it on the NXT box? To me, Meguiars equates water beading to protection!

**majik1** · May 10, 2004, 09:01 AM

nice postings mike.....
it means To The Top...
poster wants to keep the thread active without adding content....
ive got some things id like to run by the forum on NXT that relates to Audio !! but ill save that for another thread...
after seeing the NXT on all the different paint jobs at detail day tho...im impressed
i do get the point tho, after studying many things, mostly on the internet, that a product like Zaino, while providing low surface tension, doesnt necessarily mean its protecting, or can fill in swirls or make a paint appear darker and deeper...ill give it reflective tho...

**Aurora40** · May 10, 2004, 09:20 AM

Just my two cents here... I understand what you mean about beading and about crud sticking to the car. I look at crud on the car as a big indicator as to whether I will continue to use a product. I think a product can still be present and have crud stick to it. I found Zaino to be pretty crud-prone when I used it, which is one reason I went back to Blackfire. Blackfire always washed clean the easiest, plus it beads and the beads fly off much better than Zaino.

Beading shows durability in the context of a product that always beads. Some products like Klasse, MPPP, and others bead pretty poorly, so a drop-off in beading doesn't mean much (the paint will still feel slick and smooth). Every product is different, and it can be a challenge to tell if they are still present or still protecting (how could you ever possibly tell if a product is still providing UV protection or other things?)

Anyway, my ultimate point was just to suggest something. I found NXT to peform for about 6 weeks on my wife's car when I first used it. I also had prepped the paint recently prior to use. However, when I applied a second coat to the car, it was going strong beading-wise at 2 months when I decided to apply a different product to play with.

Several people apply NXT two coats at a time, and have good durability results. I had good results after the second application. Maybe you would want to give this a try as well? You already have the product, and it sounds like you like the appearance, so if this is what it takes to get what you want from it, it isn't really a difficult thing.

P.S. I might suggest you get some #16 to use as it also beads like crazy, the water moves off the paint, and it resists crud stickage very well. I've found it to bead on for 3 months easy...

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