1970 Ford Mustang Fastback Mach1

[DetailManiac]

Hi Guys,

I know there is a lot of good info about buffing a special car
like this, and i spend a lot of time reading all kinds of post and
topic's about it.

Also i know that it's almost impossible to give an answer on a
question like " how hard a finish could be " and that the advice
would be like " go out and work on the paint and find out your
self " and that's just what i did.

First a picture of the car:



Here i have some info about this car:

* 1970 Ford Mustang Fastback Mach1
* Single stage paint, repainted approx. 15 years ago
* Paint color is Grabber Green
* Looks pretty good, but has light swirls and tiny scratches

Here is a picture made from a little distance:



This one is made from a little closer by:



First i made a test spot by hand using:

* QD for quick cleaning a square foot of paint
* Quick detailing Clay System and QD
* Scratch X on a appl. pad with enough pressure ( 3 times 5 min.)
* DC Paint cleaner
* Wiped it all of with a clean MF

But this had no effect on the swirls and scratches, it felt clean and
smooth to the touch and a bit more shine but that's it.

Than i tried, on the same spot my machine it's a eccentric sander ( Bosch ) using this:

* Scratch X mixed with DC Paint cleaner 50/50 on a W8006 Polishing pad several times in total time 15 min.
* Wiped off with a clean MF

Again it had no effect whatsoever, my pad became a little Greenish but it did leave the swirls and scratches right in.

This one was made after i used the machine:



I expected that the paint could be hard but this hard
I guess i ran into the machine and products limitations and i
have to try to get my hands on some heavier stuff.

Now you know by now that we can't buy a PC or whatsoever
and i never used a real rotary before so i was thinking to purchase a Makita BO6040 so i have a orbital and a ( limited ) rotary buffer at the same time.

Now my questions are these:

* Would #83 and #80 be aggressive enough or will i have to
use #84 or even the #85 compound?
* Is it safe to use my W7006 ( if needed ) on the cars finish?

Further more i need some info about the black " sticker " on the
hood, it's not painted but it made from some sort of self adhesive
material and it has lots of cracks on it.

Like you can see on these pictures:









So has anyone experiences with this kind of severe cracks or does
anybody have any kind of suggestions about the best way to handle this
i know i can't remove the cracks out of there but maybe i can
make them look less noticeable
I guess the cracks come from the heat of the engine below
so a new one should turn out to be just the same in a short while
at least that's what i think.

I really could use some help on this, because it's the first time
for me to work on a very special car like this one.

Thx in advance

[Pete-FWA]

Looks like you have quite a nice project on your hands.

Wow, this is a tough case to learn on. Is anyone else around who might have done more of this kind of work? I surely wouldn't say to experiment for the first time with a rotary on such a vehicle. My advice, if you're going it alone, is to stay with a milder setup and just avoid damage. Use the Makita machine you talked about and use M80 with a W8000/W8006 pad. It may not get all the marks out, but you'll see an improvement and avoid the likely errors of using a rotary for the first time.

Without being able to use a true rotary, however, I'm not sure how much more aggressive you can get (both materials and product). M83 is about as far as most will go on a Porter Cable/dual action polisher. In fact, I've read that Meguiar's does not recommend anthing more aggressive with a dual action machine.

Unless you're using a true rotary, I'd stay away from the W7000 pad. Normally, this leaves marks in the finish that are very difficult to remove without a rotary.

[Pete-FWA]

On the stickers, there isn't much that can be done once they are cracked.

The cracks appear to be white...has someone applied polish or wax over them? Are the stickers brittle at all or are they solid and staying on the hood well?

In some cases, I've seen people use some kind of exterior dressing on the vinyl stickers, but this is a temporary repair.

Best of luck to you

[DetailManiac]

Thx. Pete-FWA,

I think i will try #83 / #80 with a W8006 polishing pad on the
makita on DA mode first and see what the results would be.
And only switch to rotary mode on the real tough spots.

I don't want to ruin the cars finish, as i don't have any rotary
experience at all.

At this point i don't know if the sticker is solid or if it's a 2 layer
made? i think that it's 2 layer cause the cracks are white and
not green under need and that the white stuff isn't wax residue.
I told the " customer " not expect to much with the sticker and
i can't make the cracks go away. Maybe i can try some GC
Trim detailer? or something, it won't hurt i think.

[the other pc]

What model Bosch did you try? Do you know its power specification? Its speed? How hard were you pressing down on it?

Any idea what kind of paint it is? Was the car in the US when it was painted or in The Netherlands?


PC

[DetailManiac]

Hi, and Thx for you reply, i will try to answer your questions
as good as i can:

Machine spec's:

* Model: Bosch PEX 125 AE ( old model )
* Power: 250 watts
* OPM: 0-11.000
* Ex-center: 2.5 mm.
* Weight: 1.65 kg.

I used moderated pressure on my passes.
What i know about the paint is that it's re-painted in the US
approx. 15 years ago.

I noticed that the power may not be sufficient enough when
increased the pressure and the opm's dropped pretty fast.

The power on the makita is much better it runs at 750 watts.

More spec's:

* OPM at DA mode: 3200 - 11.600
* RPM at forced rotation mode: 180 - 670
* Ex-center ( DA mode ): 5.5 mm.
* Weight: 2.7 kg.

I have a good feeling about this machine, which i could use maybe
at 95% DA mode and 5% rotary mode ( the paint has almost no
serious defects or severe scratches ).

Hope you make something out of this, and give me more good
advice on this major job ( at least to me it is )

Thx in advance

[the other pc]

If the Bosch goes up to 11,000 opm I would guess that running it at half on the dial is about the same speed as the G-100 (only a guess though). 250W isn't as underpowered as some machines but the Makita should be significantly more effective. (If I were in Europe I'd probably get a Festool RO 150. I really like Festool products.)

Mike recommends using between 15 and 20 pounds of force (approx. 70 -90 N, 7-9 kilogram-force) to remove defects with the G-100.

I would definitely recommend getting some #80 and #83 (or maybe the new formula #2) if you can find them. Even if they aren't up to this job they're worth keeping on hand for others. If you're not in a big hurry you can order from a US supplier. (I have to say the ScratchX/DC1 combo is very resourceful but I can't begin to guess how it would compare.)

Most of the discussions of single stage paints around here are about OEM and "typical" re-spray paints that are usually softer than most clearcoats. About the time that car was painted it was all the rage for car-guys to shoot their rides with DuPont Imron (or the PPG equivalent). These are very tough catalyzed single stage paints. If this car has a finish like that you have a lot of work ahead (may need a rotary).


PC.

[Dragpakmach]

Looking at the pics,i would replace the stripes.I would try #83 with a yellow pad 8006.Then I would step up to #84 with a yellow pad on a rotary on speed 3 or 1500 rpm.This is just rough idea without seeing the total condition and what the owner is looking for out of the car.

[DetailManiac]

I just did some reading about the Festool RO 150 E-plus and
the spec's are even better as the spec's of the Makita.

I think it also can be used as a rotary and a DA machine.

* Opm's on DA mode: 240 - 560 p/min.
* Rpm's on rotary mode: 2000 - 5600 p/min.
* Weight: 2.3 kg.

It's not cheap tough but it's a high quality machine and i think
i will go on this one.

I think that the paint would be the catalyzed type, cause it's
for sure not soft.
Getting my hands on the new #2 would not be any problem
and i can order it from ADS just like that.

Replace the sticker won't be an option, the cracks will return
very soon, due the heat of the engine ( IMHO )

[the other pc]

If the last painter used NOS Ford stickers they could have been 20 years old and about to fall apart back then!

Decal technology has come a long way, even in the last fifteen years. I'm sure today's reproduction stickers are made from much more durable materials and should last for years.

If it were my car I'd probably have the graphics painted. I know any concours judges or Mustang purists would slam me for it since the originals were stickers but it would sure shine up whole a lot nicer and won't crack, peel, get wax in the edges or fade quickly.


PC.

[DetailManiac]

I think you made a strong point there, and i will discus this with
the owner of the car, and try to find out what his thoughts are
about stepping off the original " thing "

[Dragpakmach]

I highly doubt the cracks are engine heat.Thats probably a 351 cleveland under the hood.Guys are replacing stripe decals on Machs from Mustangsunlimited.com.Just look under the 65-73 section.Hope this helps.

[DetailManiac]

Ok thx, I will take a look at their site.

[DetailManiac]

Update:

I just thought it's time for a update about this project:

I took the advice to purchase the Festool RO 150 E ( plus )
I have some pictures right here:









I hope that I made the right choice ( remember, i've no experience
with a rotary at this point ) and that it can get the job done

I also ordered at ADS the following product:

* M8332
* M8232
* M8032
* M2164
* Last Touch Spray Detailer

It will be deliverd this week, so i can't wait for the package to arrive and that i can start to work on the car a.s.p.

Maybe I try the #82 with a W8006 first to check out what it
will do on the paint and if it's still not " cutting " enough I always
can go for the #83 also on a W8006 and maybe that's just what
the paint needs to get that flawless finish ( at the end )

I hope i don't have to reach for my W7006 with the #82 / #83
and with the machine in the rotex mode ( eeeks )
That would be as far I can go with this machine and with my
new products, so i just go out and try it all out, that's the only
way to find out i guess.

If anyone still have any kind of suggestions, please will free to
make them and help me on this job.

Thx in advance,

Detailmaniac.

[Murr1525]

Well, one suggestion:

#82 is mildest
#80 is in the middle.
#83 is stongest.

So you would want to go from 82 to 80 to 83, in order to see what the mildest product needed will be. Or just start with 80, then 83.

However, if you use 83, you may find you need to folow up with 80 or 82 to really get the best finish.


At least that Festool looks cool... hopefully it works just as good.