i am a little confused or they are

[Thejoyofdriving]

what is the deal with this?

How can I tell if the product I am using has polishing agents?
If the product label says that it leaves a powdery residue, you can be sure that it contains abrasives. Some of the conventional wax/polishes contain as much as 20% by weight polishing agents. Optimum Car Wax is the only product that is abrasive-free, is as durable as paste wax, and offers UV protection.

Why do most wax /polish products contain abrasives?
Conventional waxes and polishes were designed for older enamel finishes to remove oxidized pigments and colorants. Paint technology has come a long way in the past decade; however, the wax /polish manufacturers still offer the same old technologies.

What is the difference between liquid and paste wax /polish?
The only difference between liquid and paste waxes /polishes is thickening agents. Both conventional liquid and paste waxes/polishes contain abrasives which can harm the clear coat finish.

What about using wax /polish products that say clear coat safe?
These products generally contain finer polishing agents which cause finer scratches and swirl marks.

I assume meguiars waxes wouldn't fall in to the "conventional waxes" category.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

If you're going to post information from some other website, please cite where you obtained it.

As for those questions, we don't share proprietary information about our products but instead keep the focus on the performance of our products, that's what really matters in the end.





Overhaulin Challenger machine polished with M80 Speed Glaze and topped with NXT Tech Wax
(Won two first places prizes the next day)



The Panic Parrot machine polished with M80 Speed Glaze and topped with NXT Tech Wax





Lil Octane



Check out the results NXT Tech Wax created on this Ford Lightning Truck!


Click here to to add your comments!

NXT Tech Wax is Amazing!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

p.s.

Won't be able to monitor your thread the rest of the day as we're getting ready to conduct an all-day class for the National Corvette Restoreation Society.


Meguiar's Detailing Class for the NCRS in Las Vegas

[Michael Stoops]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

That copy reads like typical marketing hype. Yes, some waxes, like cleaner waxes, do contain varying amounts of cleaners. These cleaners, by nature, are most likely very fine abrasives - unless the product is using a chemical cleaner, as I understand Klasse AIO to be.

But these abrasives are not a bad thing. We hear talk all the time about diminishing abrasives in Meguiar's polishes. We also hear about the different level of cutting ability in different pads - the W7006 being more aggressive than the W9006 pad for example. That aggressiveness is basically the same thing as "abrasiveness" but it's perhaps a kinder word. Heck, a microfiber towel can be abrasive if you apply too much pressure when wiping product off. But it's not as abrasive/aggressive as terry cloth, which is still less abrasive/aggressive than, say, denim (even though denim is 100% cotton, you wouldn't wipe wax off your car with a pair of Levi's, would you?)

So, just as we have polishes with varying levels of abrasiveness/aggressiveness, we have towels, pads, and even waxes with various levels. But if the amount of this stuff in a cleaner wax is bad for your car, then I dare say you should never, never, EVER use a polish on your car to remove defects, swirls, etc. Why? Because THOSE products contain far more abrasive/aggressive ingredients than cleaner waxes do.

And I don't care if you're talking Meguiar's, Sonus, Optimum, Menzerna, etc. Each of these companies makes products that are strong enough to remove very bad marring - even wet sanding marks (talk about aggressive/abrasive!!!) as well as products that are incredibly gentle to paint. Heck, some so called cleaner waxes are so mild that they won't even fully remove a coat of fresh wax!!! And if wax will normally wear off, or wash off, a car in a matter of weeks, then you know it's softer than your clear coat by an enormous amount!!!

Having said all that........the relative hardness/softness of the paint you're working on can throw a wrench into the whole mix. I deal with this every day as one of my cars is almost impervious to swirls while the other gets swirls seemingly just from sitting in my garage.

You should always take someone's claim of "ours is the ONLY product on the market that does ____________" with a grain of salt.

[Thejoyofdriving]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

I figured that they were talking about old waxes when they say conventional. I got the info from optimumcarcare.com I just wanted to know if meguiars non cleaner waxes like nxt have any diminishing abrasives. And mike, when you say polishes, you are not talking about pure polishes like DC2 and #7 are you? I remember asking meguiars costumer service if their pure polishes like DC@ and #7 have any diminishing abrasives, any i think they said "no they dont have any, but some of their non pure polishes have diminidshing abrasives"

[Michael Stoops]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

I figured that they were talking about old waxes when they say conventional. I got the info from optimumcarcare.com I just wanted to know if meguiars non cleaner waxes like nxt have any diminishing abrasives. And mike, when you say polishes, you are not talking about pure polishes like DC2 and #7 are you? I remember asking meguiars costumer service if their pure polishes like DC@ and #7 have any diminishing abrasives, any i think they said "no they dont have any, but some of their non pure polishes have diminidshing abrasives"

There are old cleaner waxes and modern waxes. There are old and modern waxes with little to no cleaners. As for Meguiar's non cleaner waxes having any diminishing abrasives in them, just thinking logically about how diminishing abrasives behave, and what it takes to break them down, I'm pretty confident in saying that they do NOT contain any. The pure polishes, like #7, don't have any diminishing abrasives either, nor any other cleaning abilities. It is purely a beauty treatment for the paint, not a corrective treatment. The way in which you apply #7, or a wax for that matter, is an indicator of what is or isn't in it. Diminishing abrasives need some fairly serious work behind them to break them down (think ScratchX applied by hand) yet you don't handle #7 or any wax in that manner. Well, maybe #66 but that's a pretty unique product, and it readily admits to having very good cleaning abilities.

[the other pc]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

All those seeds of fear they're planting about the horrors of abrasives in waxes and polishes are pretty funny when you read their other product descriptions and find that Optimum's polish and their all-in-one both contain abrasives.

Welcome to the wonderful world of advertising hype.


PC.

[Thejoyofdriving]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

I really reeks havoc on people like me trying to learn more.

[Thejoyofdriving]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

I called meguiars costumer care just to make sure(not that i didn't believe you mike in orange, just checking) And they were happy to tell me every thing i wanted to know and that #7 and NXT both do not contain any diminishing abrasives. Its nice to know more about the stuff i am putting on my baby(car), and i am very nit pick about the stuff i put on my baby, it is nice to know that there is a knowledgeable staff at meguiars costumer service that know what is in there products. i have called other people before wanting to know if NXT and #7 have diminishing abrasives and they were not able to help me, they told me they didnt know and no one will tell me.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

I really reeks havoc on people like me trying to learn more.

At least you're asking questions though, not just going "ooooh, these guys say their product will solve global warming and make me irresistible to supermodels!!!"

[Thejoyofdriving]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

ya its said to say that some people dont care what is in the bottle, they only care about performance, in my opinion those people are............well i cant say it on this forum. It is just like those people that "know a lot" or are "smart" beacuse they memorize stuff, you know who im talikg about, the guy in science class that knows the exact date that xrays were first used to detect broken bones, but they cant tell you what xrays are, and then you have the real intelligent "smart" people who have a deep understanding of things.

[ccr]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

At least you're asking questions though, not just going "ooooh, these guys say their product will solve global warming and make me irresistible to supermodels!!!"

JAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA, FUNNIEST COMMENT EVER

[Anthony Orosco]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

what is the deal with this?

How can I tell if the product I am using has polishing agents?
If the product label says that it leaves a powdery residue, you can be sure that it contains abrasives. Some of the conventional wax/polishes contain as much as 20% by weight polishing agents. Optimum Car Wax is the only product that is abrasive-free, is as durable as paste wax, and offers UV protection.

Why do most wax /polish products contain abrasives?
Conventional waxes and polishes were designed for older enamel finishes to remove oxidized pigments and colorants. Paint technology has come a long way in the past decade; however, the wax /polish manufacturers still offer the same old technologies.

What is the difference between liquid and paste wax /polish?
The only difference between liquid and paste waxes /polishes is thickening agents. Both conventional liquid and paste waxes/polishes contain abrasives which can harm the clear coat finish.

What about using wax /polish products that say clear coat safe?
These products generally contain finer polishing agents which cause finer scratches and swirl marks.

I assume meguiars waxes wouldn't fall in to the "conventional waxes" category.

The context here is on the "powdery residue". Many waxes contain a talc powder which can be abrasive but as noted a plush microfiber can also be abrasive so even though talc powder is very fine it, along with corn starch, can be seen as abrasive. What causes many waxes to turn trim white? Could it be the same ingredient in a polish that also turns trim white?

So again the context of the statement in question is advertising the benefits of having a totally non-abrasive wax. It gives you the look of a paste wax, the durability of a polymer with super easy application plus it's the only wax with UV absorbers. It though is an advertisement meant to sell a product so of course it claims to be the best product for the job just as Meguiars, Mothers, Zaino and a host of others also claim.

"Hype" though would be incorrect for that would imply false information is being put forth. The article or ad does not say "ALL polishes/waxes contain abrasives" but rather asking "Why do *MOST* wax/polish products contain abrasives?"

The main idea here is that Optimum spray wax does not contain any abrasives of any sort. It does not say that abrasives are harmful when used correctly or that Optimum Polish or Poli-Seal do not contain abrasives but this one specific product does not contain abrasives, it has no paint cleaning properties.

Hope that helps,
Anthony

[Michael Stoops]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

See my comments in bold inside the quote:

"Hype" though would be incorrect for that would imply false information is being put forth. The article or ad does not say "ALL polishes/waxes contain abrasives" but rather asking "Why do *MOST* wax/polish products contain abrasives?" The claim specifically states "Optimum Car Wax is the only product that is abrasive-free, is as durable as paste wax, and offers UV protection." If it is true that theirs is the "only one" without, then it must also be true that all others have it. I don't believe that for a second

The main idea here is that Optimum spray wax does not contain any abrasives of any sort. It does not say that abrasives are harmful when used correctly or that Optimum Polish or Poli-Seal do not contain abrasives but this one specific product does not contain abrasives, it has no paint cleaning properties.But they intentionally mislead you into thinking that "conventional waxes", as they put it, are not good for clear coat finishes and that "Conventional waxes and polishes were designed for older enamel finishes to remove oxidized pigments and colorants. Paint technology has come a long way in the past decade; however, the wax /polish manufacturers still offer the same old technologies." Meguiar's M16 is an old school hard carnauba wax. Meguiar's is not the only company to make such a product, yet it does not contain heavy cleaners and abrasives. Sure, it was developed some 50 years ago, long before anybody was using clear coat, and this ad copy would lead one to believe that such a product is not good for clear coated finishes. It also suggests, due to its very broad and sweeping generalization, that ALL conventional waxes contain cleaners strong enough to remove oxidation. These are gross generalizations, lumping together all waxes and polishes more than a decade old. It's just flat out misleading.

Hope that helps,
Anthony

What I find so frustrating about the whole thing is that Optimum makes really good stuff, and plenty of people swear by the results they get with it. Optimum doesn't need to make such crazy, almost desperate claims. To me there is no better claim that a manufacturer can make than to give solid, consistent, repeatable results from an easy to use product. Meguiar's does all of that very well, but they do NOT have a corner on that market - there are plenty of other excellent products available. But we all choose what we want - whether car care products, tires, engine oil, the car itself - largely based on personal preferences.

[Anthony Orosco]

Re: i am a little confused or they are

Mike,

Would I then be in error to state that Meguiars does the same, and for a longer period of time?

You stated,

It's just flat out misleading.

Do you really believe you can replenish the paint surface with feeder oils?

So we can go back and forth on this all day I'm sure. The original poster had a question and I sought to reply. All manufacturers speak in glowing terms of their products. Optimum claims their spray wax will last 5 months yet this doesn't mean every user will obtain those results.

Meguiars claims that its polishes replace, replenish oils into the paint yet from the paint chemists and product manufacturers I have spoken with that is nonsense and is "misleading". It would be better stated that the oils lay on top and fill in imperfections. That though doesn't market well to the potential customer.

Having not tested all waxes for abrasives I cannot state for sure that Optimum spray wax is the "only" wax free of abrasives. I know David, the creator of Optimum, has tested a lot of waxes and perhaps all of them has abrasives. I'll be sure to inquire with him about that subject and the meaning of the statements found in the product description.

Thanks,
Anthony