M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

[Markus Kleis]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

I ended up at Meguiar's, I didn't start here. I started with an open mind and tried out oodles of other products, including "the expensive German stuff" and at the end of the day I found the best products for me were 9 out of 10 times by Meguiar's.

I also got consumed by the burning desire to find the "magical wax" that will make every car look amazing and last forever. After wasting hundreds of dollars on waxes that in the end all looked the same, I realized that my money and effort was better spent on the polishing steps and not on exotic waxes.

Heck, I probably have $300-400 worth of waxes on my shelf that haven't moved once since I started using M21 2.0.

I suggest that you start with some samples, an open mind, and a willingness to learn and see for yourself if the expensive waxes are really worth it to YOU. Maybe they are...maybe they aren't, but you will never know by just asking others.

[akimel]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

I'm also looking at other products besides Meguairs (shock), including Wolfgang, Dodo Juice and Swissvax. The only thing is here of course I'm going to get the Meguiars bias. Agh, why are there so many choices.

(The following comments are based on no experience whatsoever, except the good fortune of being fathered by a businessman who knew business and who knew how to sell merchandise to the affluent and wealthy.)

From what I have read, all of the above are excellent choices. I can especially see the attraction of Dodo's Supernatural and SwissVax's Smaragd, IF one has, or is at least hoping to draw, the affluent customers who are able and willing to pay more for the application of a boutique wax. The simple fact is, a person who owns a Mercedes, Cadillac, or Jaguar usually wants the very best for his car and is willing to pay for the very best, even if the aesthetic improvement is in fact marginal. If one wants to detail expensive cars, then one needs to cater to the needs, desires, and dreams of their owners. Isn't this why Paul Dalton has been so successful in England? I honestly do not know if his Crystal Rock wax really confers a look and protection that is a hundred times more superior to that of NXT; but does it really matter? All that matters is marketing and selling the product. When a person buys Zymol or Swissvax, he is not just buying a superior wax; he is buying prestige and a life-style. Call it snob-appeal, if you like, but this is one of the perks of being wealthy; and if one wants to do business with the wealthy, one needs to understand this dynamic.

But once one moves out of the exclusive (and expensive) boutique waxes, then it's just a matter of finding good products at reasonable prices. I seriously doubt that the ordinary customer cares whether his detailer is using Wolfgang sealant or M21. All that matters to him is that his car looks good when he gets it back. But the shrewd merchant knows that the pennies he saves buying the least expensive of two comparable products may well mean the difference between financial success and failure. It's not easy making a living in the business world, and it's getting tougher by the minute.

But as I said, I am not a businessman and do not know what I am talking about.

[Erik Mejia]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

(The following comments are based on no experience whatsoever, except the good fortune of being fathered by a businessman who knew business and who knew how to sell merchandise to the affluent and wealthy.)

From what I have read, all of the above are excellent choices. I can especially see the attraction of Dodo's Supernatural and SwissVax's Smaragd, IF one has, or is at least hoping to draw, the affluent customers who are able and willing to pay more for the application of a boutique wax. The simple fact is, a person who owns a Mercedes, Cadillac, or Jaguar usually wants the very best for his car and is willing to pay for the very best, even if the aesthetic improvement is in fact marginal. If one wants to detail expensive cars, then one needs to cater to the needs, desires, and dreams of their owners. Isn't this why Paul Dalton has been so successful in England? I honestly do not know if his Crystal Rock wax really confers a look and protection that is a hundred times more superior to that of NXT; but does it really matter? All that matters is marketing and selling the product. When a person buys Zymol or Swissvax, he is not just buying a superior wax; he is buying prestige and a life-style. Call it snob-appeal, if you like, but this is one of the perks of being wealthy; and if one wants to do business with the wealthy, one needs to understand this dynamic.

But once one moves out of the exclusive (and expensive) boutique waxes, then it's just a matter of finding good products at reasonable prices. I seriously doubt that the ordinary customer cares whether his detailer is using Wolfgang sealant or M21. All that matters to him is that his car looks good when he gets it back. But the shrewd merchant knows that the pennies he saves buying the least expensive of two comparable products may well mean the difference between financial success and failure. It's not easy making a living in the business world, and it's getting tougher by the minute.

But as I said, I am not a businessman and do not know what I am talking about.

Great points here. Maybe Barry should market a "Barry Meguiars Boutique Signature Wax." I know I would buy it for my collection, and it could cater to those who want to pay more.

[Justin Murphy]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

Yeah 10000.00 waxes are nice and you think PROFIT. Think of this for a second.......
How many does he sell a month?
I talked to a friend of mine that works in the automotive department at Wal Mart and he says that they sell about 10 bottles of NXT 2.0 a week. Times that by how many Wal Marts there are, internet stores, other chain stores...etc. etc. I bet they sell a few more bottles of NXT vs. any high-end wax out there and make the profit with volume.

Now that's marketing!
An awesome product backed by great service at a value with ease of purchase.
Marketing 101 to me!

[46&2_X]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

But as I said, I am not a businessman and do not know what I am talking about.

LOL! Spoken like a true Businessman lol.

Yeah 10000.00 waxes are nice and you think PROFIT. Think of this for a second.......
How many does he sell a month?
I talked to a friend of mine that works in the automotive department at Wal Mart and he says that they sell about 10 bottles of NXT 2.0 a week. Times that by how many Wal Marts there are, internet stores, other chain stores...etc. etc. I bet they sell a few more bottles of NXT vs. any high-end wax out there and make the profit with volume.

Now that's marketing!
An awesome product backed by great service at a value with ease of purchase.
Marketing 101 to me!

I agree.

Meg's has an awesome marketing team. They are out there at doing the work to prove their products work. They are at car shows helping people make their cars look their best.

Take this website! It's chock full of useful information, even if you don't use their products the information can still apply to what you are doing. I don't see Zymol offering a forum like this. I'm sure it's not cheap to run it either!

I find that Meg's doesn't have the "rep" that the other companies have, because they don't charge an arm and a leg. "Snob Appeal" pretty much nails it.

I can't wait till I can get the junk out of my garage to put my DA to the test and show everyone what an incredible job you can do just with Meg's products!

Back on topic .

How long will the Sealant last compared to the NXT Liquid Wax?

[GenTarkin]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

Hey there,

I'm wondering if M21 whether v1 or v2 absolutely NEEDS to be applied with a buffer?? I have some M21v1 and I don't have a buffer, that's why I'm asking. Also I'm trying to decide between M21v2 vs. NXT 2.0 wax.... but if one HAS to be applied with a buffer, that pretty much takes care of the question. So the question is, does either HAVE to be??

Thanks!

[Markus Kleis]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

Hey there,

I'm wondering if M21 whether v1 or v2 absolutely NEEDS to be applied with a buffer?? I have some M21v1 and I don't have a buffer, that's why I'm asking. Also I'm trying to decide between M21v2 vs. NXT 2.0 wax.... but if one HAS to be applied with a buffer, that pretty much takes care of the question. So the question is, does either HAVE to be??

Thanks!

It can be applied by hand just fine- just do your best to do thin, even coats

[Mike Phillips]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

How long will the Sealant last compared to the NXT Liquid Wax?

Should be about the same, see this thread,

Difference between NXT 2.0 vs M21

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

I got an error on both of the links in the previous post? (new browser: Opera)

Anyway, I used M21 for the first time recently on black paint and had trouble removing it. Hand application, waited 20-40min before buffing off by hand and it smeared in some places. Kept trying to buff with clean MF towels, but still wanted to leave smears that were visible in sunlight. Ended up waxing areas with Gold paste wax to fix.

I have two more black vehicles coming in soon and would rather not wax after M21.

What could I have done wrong? I'm thinking maybe too thick? I used enough to make sure I had even coverage. When I tried to spread it thinner it seemed like it wasn't covering evenly.

Anyone have photos or video of M21 being applied and what it looks like when a panel is covered with appropriate amount?

Thanks!

[Alfisti]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

Me tooooooo!!!!!! I use Opera as well. (Great browser!) It says "illegal url".

Mike, can you type the url please?

[Alfisti]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

Anyway, I used M21 for the first time recently on black paint and had trouble removing it. Hand application, waited 20-40min before buffing off by hand and it smeared in some places. Kept trying to buff with clean MF towels, but still wanted to leave smears that were visible in sunlight. Ended up waxing areas with Gold paste wax to fix.

A few people have had streaking issues with #21. Not sure what the cause is. Sometimes humidity may effect it.

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

A few people have had streaking issues with #21. Not sure what the cause is. Sometimes humidity may effect it.

I thought about that. It wasn't really humid here that day, but it was a little warmer than it had been and a front moved in the next day and rained the next.

I used M21 again today on a dark red car I'm building and applied it and removed it with my DA. I wet sanded half a door and buffed and polished for a test area. I can't move it out in the sun as the motor is not installed yet, but it looks good under Halogen, Zenon, flash and ambient lighting. Today is cool and dry, so it may have been humidity or doing it by hand that caused streaking. Have to see on the next warm day and the next black car. M21 really shines though!

Before wet sanding on left. After with M21 on right. Both areas had previously been polished with rotary, but did not remove holograms with DA until today. (right side only)




Reflection shot - orange peel begins near left side of photo and a little remaind down near the body line where I taped, but this test was a success. This car was painted when I bought it and whoever did a **** job with careless prep work, but it should look awesome after I finish paint correction!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

I got an error on both of the links in the previous post? (new browser: Opera)

Me tooooooo!!!!!! I use Opera as well. (Great browser!) It says "illegal url".

Mike, can you type the url please?

Weird?

Not sure what I did wrong but I fixed the link so it work now...

Anyone have photos or video of M21 being applied and what it looks like when a panel is covered with appropriate amount?

Thanks!

It's hard to capture a thin coating of wax when it's really a thin coating. If you can, try applying with a DA Polisher using a finishing pad and see if that works better for you, machines are great for laying down a thin coating...

Streaks are usually an indicator of residue not removed and applying too much and not letting it fully dry is a common cause.

Check out these two threads,

Final Wiping Techniques

The Swipe Test

M21 really shines though!

Great pictures and information but maybe start a dedicated thread for this kind of post as it will get more attention than tagging on to the 4th and 5th pages of this thread...

Just a suggestion...

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

Great pictures and information but maybe start a dedicated thread for this kind of post as it will get more attention than tagging on to the 4th and 5th pages of this thread...

Just a suggestion...

Thanks Mike. I plan to post the photos I took today during the wet sanding / polishing / sealant processes and the steps / pads / product I used. I got carried away posting here.

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - Formula Update

Weird?

It's hard to capture a thin coating of wax when it's really a thin coating. If you can, try applying with a DA Polisher using a finishing pad and see if that works better for you, machines are great for laying down a thin coating...

Streaks are usually an indicator of residue not removed and applying too much and not letting it fully dry is a common cause.

I guess what I was asking was how much sealant is applied to a certain size area? For instance, I hold the applicator/pad over the container top and turn it on its side for an instat to get some on the applicator. Usually not the full circle shape of the bottle, maybe half a circle probably a little bigger than a quarter dab and spread that on 2 square foot area.

I re-read the post about wiping slowly instead of in a fast buffing motion and admit I tend to forget that bit of good advice.