Removing Swirls on Fresh Paint

[Drew2888]

On a cured clear coat, Meguiars products have always given me a flawless finsish; Swirl free, with deep reflections, and a durable protection. When it comes down to fresh paint, I have unfortunatley been unsuccessful. I was wondering if anyone knows the trick behind getting fresh paint to actually be swirl free, rather than hiding the swirls (keep in mind that I de-nib and buff the car using wet sand paper with the grit of 1200-2000 and 3000). Here's my system as of now:

-De-nib car with 1000(only if neccessary) and/or 1200
-Cross hatch with 2000
-Cross hatch with 3000

-Using a Dewault rotary buffer (1000-1200 rpms)- remove scratches with Meguairs Wool and #85, Diamond Cut
-Polish with Meguairs #83, Dual Action and W8000 Yellow Foam
-Polish with Meguairs #9, Swirl Remover and W9000 White Foam
-Orbital w/ Dewault dual action polisher speed 2 (W8006yellow and #83dualaction)
-Orbital w/ Dewault dual action polisher speed 1 (W9006white and #9swirlfree)
-Pull Vehicle in sun to be disappointed by swirls and holograms

*Note: I always buff at or around 1000 rpms (medium-no pressure), and hold the pad flat to the panels. I clean my wool pad frequently with a spur and my foam pads with a Meguairs brush.

HELP PLEASE!!!!

[roushstage2]

Re: Removing Swirls on Fresh Paint

I'm probably just missing something, but you said you remove the scratches (swirls too I imagine?) with M85, but then that they are only hidden later?

Anyways, your process seems way overcomplicated and in the wrong order with the wrong speeds and the wrong pads.

-Using a Dewault rotary buffer (1000-1200 rpms)- remove scratches with Meguairs Wool and #85, Diamond Cut This seems to be correct and after this is where I would guess the problem is. You go from M83 to M09 (the correct order), but then you go back to the aggressive M83 and then back to M09 again. Use either the rotary and go from M83 to M09, or use the polisher and go from M83 to M09. I can help you with the polisher as I use that all of the time, but I have never used a rotary so perhaps someone else can help with that.
-Polish with Meguairs #83, Dual Action and W8000 Yellow Foam
-Polish with Meguairs #9, Swirl Remover and W9000 White Foam
-Orbital w/ Dewault dual action polisher speed 2 (W8006yellow and #83dualaction)
-Orbital w/ Dewault dual action polisher speed 1 (W9006white and #9swirlfree)
-Pull Vehicle in sun to be disappointed by swirls and holograms

What is an "Orbital w/DeWalt Dual Action Polisher??? If it is something like the G100, you should be using both M83 and M09 on speed 5, not 2 or 1, and both on an 8006 pad (polishing pad). Wax should be applied with a speed of about 3-4 on a 9006 pad (finishing pad), so an aggressive cleaner definitely needs to be going faster or the diminishing abrasives will not break down correctly and leave your finish less than perfect. I suggest going the PC route because it sounds like you have used the rotary quite a bit on the paint? The PC won't wear the paint down as much as the rotary, and if you have been having at it with the rotary...

I say if you went something like this, I would say you would be getting the results you are looking for (or pretty dang close):
M85 on rotary with wool pad.
M83 on PC, speed 5 with an 8006 pad.
M09 on PC, speed 5 with an 8006 pad.

Also, before you do the entire car and then find out you did not achieve your desired results, may I suggest you do say a 2'x2' test spot on the hood? This way, you will be able to tell if your process worked before you spend a day doing the entire car.

[roushstage2]

Re: Removing Swirls on Fresh Paint

Also, check these out if you haven't seen them. They may help a lot in your situation. They are extremely useful and informative!


Working with the Dual Action Polisher/PC/G-100/DA
Using the G-100 to Remove Swirls with the Professional Line
PC + #83 not "Cutting" it! - The Limits of the Dual Action Polisher
Will I notice a difference if I use the G-100
Problems and Solutions when using the G100/PC Dual Action Polisher
Cleaning Your Pad on the Fly
Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer
How much paint are you removing.
Meguiar’s G-100, G-100A - Recommended Products, Pads and Speeds

Working with the Rotary Buffer/Rotary
Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer
Can a Rotary Buffer like a Makita or DeWalt be as Idiot-proof as a PC?
Avoiding Swirls & Holograms when using the Rotary Buffer
Buffer Swirls, Holograms and the Rotary Buffer

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Removing Swirls on Fresh Paint

-Using a DeWalt rotary buffer (1000-1200 rpms)- remove scratches with Meguiar's Wool and #85, Diamond Cut

-Polish with Meguiar's #83, Dual Action and W8000 Yellow Foam
-Polish with Meguiar's #9, Swirl Remover and W9000 White Foam

After the M83 step, the paint should be at about 90% perfection with only light swirls left from the rotating action of the rotary buffer. Following the M83 with #9 with a finishing foam pad should further reduce the amount and the depth of any swirls or holograms left in the finish.

So far so good, this is a combination we've used successfully for years.

-Orbital w/ DeWalt dual action polisher speed 2 (W8006 yellow and #83dual action)
-Orbital w/ DeWalt dual action polisher speed 1 (W9006 white and #9 swirl free)

-Pull Vehicle in sun to be disappointed by swirls and holograms

The buffer swirls or also called buffer trails or holograms should have been easily removed 100% by the first application of M83 on your DA Polisher, if they're not being removed then either this DeWalt dual action polisher isn't providing the power you need to remove small particles of paint or the majority of your swirls were never removed after the cutting step.

Besides using the right pads and the right products other factors that coming into play are technique

Buffing time or Buffing Cycle - how long you're buffing each product that contains a diminishing abrasive. If you don't buff a product that contains a diminishing abrasive long enough to break all the abrasives down completely you'll leave swirls in the paint. This means each fresh application of M85 and M83 needs to be buffed until the abrasives have been completely broken down before stopping and wiping off the residue.

Not sure if this is where the problem might be but it has been a problem in body shops in the past.

Also a clean work shop environment, there's no dirt or dust blowing into your work area and onto your panels when you're working is there?

Always work clean.

*Note: I always buff at or around 1000 rpms (medium-no pressure), and hold the pad flat to the panels.

For the cutting step you usually want to be around the 1500rpm range and you vary your pressure as you work the product, starting with medium pressure for the first 4-5 major passes and then lighten up.

Limit your work area to a section no larger than 2' by 2' even this is a pretty large section to accurately concentrate on to insure you're removing a uniform amount of material evenly so adjust to your comfort level and body size, you don't wont to over reach your ability to control the rotary buffer.

With the DA Polisher, often times Newbies will try to carve out to large a section to work at one time only to be disappointed that the swirls are still present, they don't understand the gentleness of the tool, (as compared to a rotary), nor the usual hardness of the paint.

I clean my wool pad frequently with a spur and my foam pads with a Meguiar's brush.

HELP PLEASE!!!!

Cleaning your pads often is vitally important, glad to read you're doing this.

After reading the above let us know if there's anything we've written that might give you something to look into as far as your process goes.

Then as our good friend Tyler wrote,

Also, before you do the entire car and then find out you did not achieve your desired results, may I suggest you do say a 2'x2' test spot on the hood?

This way, you will be able to tell if your process worked before you spend a day doing the entire car.

We call this doing a "Test Spot", that is to test the products, pads and process, (process is by hand or machine and type of machine), to a small section and insure you're getting the results you want in this test section before going over the entire car.