Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

[Jesstzn]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

a) no
b) yes

To each other? You aren't making any sense. I tell you what. Go put on a coat on M16 and then a coat of NXT. If there is a pile of NXT on the ground because it didn't bond to the M16 or vice versa, please take a picture. I would be very interested in seeing that. If it doesn't fall off onto the floor and you still don't believe they will bond, please explain how-so.

Excuse me .. I was responding to CWM3 .. and don't be condecending to me.


Are you a tech with Meguiars?

[roushstage2]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Excuse me .. I was responding to CWM3 .. and don't be condecending to me.


Are you a tech with Meguiars?

At least spell condescending right

None of us in this thread are a tech, so apparently no one will be able to satisfactorily answer your question.

[Jesstzn]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Thank you

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Time for me to step in...

Meguiar's Online Rules make it very clear that we do not allow the bashing of individuals. Simply put, it is alright to disagree but it must be done in a polite and respectful manner.

I strongly suggest that in order to avoid this escalating further, that you follow the phrase that we at MOL like to use in situations like this: "It is time to push away from the keyboard"

I have already sent an email to Meguiar's management for an official reply. Until that happens, I suggest a review of the Forum Rules which I have posted below.

Thanks,

Tim


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[Gemini13]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Excuse me .. I was responding to CWM3 .. and don't be condecending to me.


Are you a tech with Meguiars?

Wow.

[Jesstzn]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Time for me to step in...

Meguiar's Online Rules make it very clear that we do not allow the bashing of individuals. Simply put, it is alright to disagree but it must be done in a polite and respectful manner.

I strongly suggest that in order to avoid this escalating further, that you follow the phrase that we at MOL like to use in situations like this: "It is time to push away from the keyboard"

I have already sent an email to Meguiar's management for an official reply. Until that happens, I suggest a review of the Forum Rules which I have posted below.

Thanks,

Tim

Tim if you think I was being rude I appologize, as with many questions asked in forums uninformed people have a tendency to voice thier unsubstantiated "opinions" and thus add more cloudyness to what generated then question in the first place.

One says yes .. one says no ... some say try it ( don't know how that answeres the question ) and others totally run off topic.

I came to the Meguiars forum to see if I could get an answer from qualified Meguiars people.

The other uninformed opinions have already been posted 100's of times in other forums.

TY

BTW I bought my car in your home town ..

D..

[CWM3]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

I am not a Meguiars Tech although I have been to a few Meguiars Garages and two of their Saturday morning classes.

Does this make me a "professional"? No.

However, what it does mean is that I have spoken directly with, and have learned from, the Meguiars team of professionals. Mike Phillips did answer your question and linked additional information from Mike Pennington also answering your question.

I have asked the same question, as have many others, that you are asking now. Meguiars waxes are formulated to work with one another. So, if you apply #16 then apply NXT 2.0 you will have no problems because NXT 2.0 does not contain enough cleaners to remove the wax applied before it.

With regards to Carnubas bonding with Sealants; that has came up on the forum in the past as well. A poster stated that the two would not mix and Mike Phillips denounced it and asked that poster to provide proof that the two don't mix. No proof was furnished and I agree with Mike Phillips that the two can be applied together.

Thats the best answer that I can give and I would recommend that you PM either Mike to get a faster, more detailed answer. This post may have gotten lost in the shuffle and if Mike Phillips is made aware of your question he will either PM you back or re-visit this thread.

Hope that helps.

[CWM3]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Maybe some of these links will help too.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3117&highlight=bonding+waxes

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21618&highlight=bonding+waxes

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16864&highlight=bonding+waxes

There are also more links from Mike Phillips within each link. It takes awhile but the information is worth it.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Hi Jesstzn,

We were off yesterday, usually when we teach a Saturday class the weekend before, we're allowed a day off during the week, that's why we didn't reply further to this thread or any thread after the morning passed yesterday. (We built a fence all day... fun fun! )

We read your thread here,

Layering NXT or NXT 2.0


And we apologize you don't feel your question was answered? So let us try again...

Can either of these be effectively layered.

Yes, if by the word layer you mean an uniform layer in thickness and coverage.

If by the word layer you mean that you can continually increase the thickness of the layer with more and more applications of product, then "No" because the surface of your car's paint will only hold so much product before you reach the point of diminishing returns, which means you will have reached a plateau and when you reach this plateau basically all you're doing is applying product and wiping it off, not increasing the thickness of the layer.

I know you can keep applying but is there enough cleaners / abrasives in NXT to remove the layer of NXT below or a portion of it?

I'm not talking about the act of friction from application .. but the results of the chemicals/solvents/cleaners/ abrasives "IN" the product removing whats cured below.

No. When applying a second or third coat of either NXT or M21, the ingredients will not remove the previously applied layer from the surface in and of themselves but will in fact create a uniform layer or coating on the surface until the point of diminishing returns has been reached. Of course you touched on factors that are out of our control and that's application material and application process, for example you could remove paint using baby oil and a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer because while the baby oil is a pure lubricant and not abrasive in any way, the fibers of a wool cutting pad spinning on a rotary buffer under pressure are powerful enough in and of themselves to be abrasive.

NXT and M21 are not cleaner/waxes, a cleaner/wax is a wax formulated to remove a wide range of paint defects, swirls, scratches, oxidation, stains, etchings, etc. NXT and M21 are not formulated for or intended to be used this way. If your paint has defects that you want to remove you should use a product formulated to do this, for example a compound, paint cleaner, cleaner/polish or even a true cleaner/wax.

We know there are other company's that teach that you can do this with their products and for more information on this claim you should contact the manufacture of those products.

Meguiar's doesn't make a wax that will layer like the way layering is taught on other forums, that is by adding more and more wax you will get a thicker and thicker layer on the surface.

To date we've never seen anyone prove this is possible with any product in a way that can be,

1. Measured.
2. Repeated by the average person.
3. The collective or cumulative effect of more and more layers won't cloud or diminish the clarity of the paint itself.

So if there's a product that claims it can be layered you need to check with the manufacture with any questions you have on how to do this.

We hope we've answered your questions, (we think we have?), at the end of the day what's really important is that you're happy with the product you're using and the results it's giving you. If you're ever unhappy with a Meguiar's product we offer a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee, simply return the product and your receipt back to the place of purchase or call our Customer Care Center and they will help you. 1-800-347-5700

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

If I clean the paint with Klasse AIO or Color X, will NXT 2 remove any or all of the coating that KAIO or Color X leaves behind.

Don't know how you could accurately measure any of this 100% Don't know why so many people are so fixated on topics like this, on a personal note, what we find NXT works great when applied to finish that is clean and defect free to start with, like the results you see here,







M21 and NXT are not cleaner/waxes, they are intended to leave a protective coating behind of the surface. Anytime you start rubbing a liquid over a surface as you have suggested there can be a cleaning effect just from the act of the liquid being rubbed over the surface by whatever it is you're using to apply the product and the process in which you are rubbing the application material and the chemical over the surface.

Not sure it would ever be worth losing any sleep over?

KAIO and ColorX are both great cleaner/waxes, in my opinion ColorX does as good a job and even a better job and is easier to find and a much more cost effective option compared to the results you get out of both products.

Each person has to make their own decision which is a better value.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Right ... so you will put a sealant over a Carnauba? And it will bond?

Meguiar's doesn't recommend topping one type of wax over another type of wax as an official procedure, but we know a lot of people like to do this to try to maximize the results of their work, so even though we don't have an official recommendation for this, since we know people are going to do this we wrote a little article with some suggestions to help you from possibly wasting your time.


From the Hot Topics forum,

Topping NXT

There is always a lot of talk about topping NXT with other products, because this is a popular topic, I thought I would offer this simple suggestion.

If you think you would like to apply a topper over NXT, before you apply your choice of a topper over the entire finish, first do a side-by-side comparison and inspect your results carefully to insure that the test area does in fact look better than NXT by itself before applying your choice of topper to the entire finish. If you apply your choice of a topper to the entire car without comparing, you will never know if it improved or diminished the results created by the NXT alone.


Here's how to do a test spot,

First - Wait until you have two thin, uniform applications of NXT Tech Wax over the entire finish. Two thin applications always look better than one application.

Second - Find a nice flat panel like the hood or deck lid so that you can look down on the finish while standing over it. Apply your choice of a topper to a square section about one foot square being careful to do so in a way as to have a very distinct section with only the topper in this section. Allow the topper to dry according to the instruction and the remove with a microfiber polishing cloth or a clean, soft 100% cotton terry cloth towel. To be fair, you should apply a second coat in this same section to insure a uniform application. Again, apply and remove according to the product's directions.

After you applied and removed your choice of a topper carefully, inspect the two areas under different lighting conditions. Different lighting conditions will allow your eyes to see the different dimensions of your finish, such as richness, gloss, shine and clearness or clarity. View the two areas from different angles, from directly overhead, and with a light source centered in the area, like the sun. You may also want to have some friends compare the two areas also, a second set of fresh eyes may see something you miss, especially after you've been working on the finish and staring at the paint for hours.

If after doing this side-by-side comparison test in one small area, your eyes will tell you whether or not you want to continue with applying the topper to the entire finish.

Hope this helps...

[Jesstzn]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Question
I know you can keep applying but is there enough cleaners / abrasives in NXT to remove the layer of NXT below or a portion of it?

I'm not talking about the act of friction from application .. but the results of the chemicals/solvents/cleaners/ abrasives "IN" the product removing whats cured below.
Answer
No. When applying a second or third coat of either NXT or M21, the ingredients will not remove the previously applied layer from the surface in and of themselves but will in fact create a uniform layer or coating on the surface until the point of diminishing returns has been reached.


Thank you Mike .. thats all I was looking for ... either it will or won't ... and as you have said above it won't.


As for the posting "Originally Posted by Jesstzn
Right ... so you will put a sealant over a Carnauba? And it will bond? "

This was not a question about topping NXT it was a sarcastic response to
this post You can apply wax and then apply NXT 2.0 without issue. ANY wax, including NXT, can be applied "below" NXT.

Implies you can put down a carnuba first and its going to have no effect on how NXT bonds to the paint surface or the life of the product.


And maybe you can correct me if I am wrong but sealants that don't have cleaning abilities really prefer a clean paint surface bond/crosslink to and a carnuba doesn't provide that.


Now that the correct answer has been provided maybe we should close this thread.

Again .. Mike I thank you

[CWM3]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

"Originally Posted by Jesstzn
Right ... so you will put a sealant over a Carnauba? And it will bond? "

This was not a question about topping NXT it was a sarcastic response to
this post You can apply wax and then apply NXT 2.0 without issue. ANY wax, including NXT, can be applied "below" NXT.

Implies you can put down a carnuba first and its going to have no effect on how NXT bonds to the paint surface or the life of the product.

I will stand by my original statement and say that you can still do this. Even though Meguiars does not recommend the application of waxes this way, it is still possible and will not effect the durability of a sealant (in this case NXT/NXT 2.0 ). I have done it in the past without any negative side effects.

It is all subjective as Mike has pointed out.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

And maybe you can correct me if I am wrong but sealants that don't have cleaning abilities really prefer a clean paint surface bond/crosslink to and a carnuba doesn't provide that.

Makes sense to me. I'm not a chemist and have never claimed to be. Have personally never tried to apply products like NXT or M21 over a product like M16 or M26 and don't think there would ever be a good reason to try this. M16 is a fairly old formula, (1951), and applying any kind of liquid wax product over a coating of this would probably tend to loosen and remove it or at least move the topical portion of it around, who knows?

We used to apply M16 over an application of M20 when doing a "Complete" for a customer, but since NXT has came out in 2004, all we use now is NXT and we always apply 2 thin coats back to back with about 30 minutes between coats. This is because most of our customer work in at the customer's location and there's not time to wait till the next day to apply the second coating and there's no profit to drive back and forth from the customer's location a second time.

As far as layering goes... wax or a paint sealant, (whichever term you like to use), is a sacrificial barrier coating, the idea is that as the car is exposed to wear and tear, the coating sacrifices itself, or in other words gives itself up so your car's paint doesn't have to [give itself up]. Because it wears off, we, that is you and I as the owners of our cars, replace it with subsequent applications.

The goal is to maintain a uniform layer of protection, not try to build up a really thick coating of protection, thus as time goes by it's best to re-apply a coating of wax to actively maintain the protection and appearance of your car's paint. So 1 coat of wax, 2 coats if you like to insure uniform coverage and uniform appearance, and if you're real car crazy and like applying wax then do a 3rd coating, but after that it's time to stand back and admire the results, not keep applying and applying wax. While this won't increase the layer of most/all waxes on the market, it will increase the layer of money in someone's bank account.

[orionredwing]

Re: Layering NXT or NXT 2.0

Thanks for the very informative posts Mike, and directly relevant to what I'm contemplating now. Your answers came at a great time

I finished machine polishing and glazed my fiancee's car last night. I applied one coat of NXT 2.0 and allowed it to cure for ~24 hrs.

Tonight, I will apply the 2nd thin coat of NXT 2.0.

Tomorrow morning (12 hrs later), I will try your recommendation and top half the hood with #26 to see if I can spot a difference.

Will chime in tomorrow to let you guys know =) (I topped before, but never paid attention. Tomorrow I will look hard)

-------

One question: I noticed that w/ only 2 coats of NXT 2.0 and no topper, the car seems to stay dust free much easier.

As soon as I top with #26, the car seems to attract dust much more easily!

From a technical perspective, I noticed that after topping with #26, I feel more static charge on the surface. There is no noticeable static buildup from NXT 2.0.

I know static charge buildup attracts dust, so am I imagining things, or is there some scientific truth?

I only noticed this twice, so feel free to say it's just my imagination. Also, static charge may have built up from other reasons, but it seems like I always 'notice' it after applying #26. Wanted to see if there was any hard info?