Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

[Piku]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Did Mike answer your questions regarding the hard top coat on the VW's, and what the appropriate products may be for getting rid of swirl?

Well, Mike tried to find swirls on my car with the swirl finder light but could not see any. So the "experiment" could not be performed.
My car does have some light swirls here and there, but they can only be seen at certain angles and at certain lights. They are easier to see when the sun is setting and you look at the finish in the opposite direction of the sun.
Mike, I forgot to tell you that about one month ago, I used #7 and put two coats of NXT 2.0 on my car so that could have filled some of the swirls.
Anyway, sorry to disappoint those who were waiting for the results. Someone needs to take a swirled up MKV VW to Mike so he can test it.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

I was hot. Some of the cars, in the sun were as hot as 160 deg.

The car we worked on was around 90 deg.

It was a beautiful sunny day at Meguiar's Garage! Check out the temperature differences for the different colors of paint sitting in full sun, especially the difference between the temperature on a white car as compared to a black car.




White car - 110 degrees



Silver Metallic - 129 degrees



Green Metallic - 165 degrees




Silver Metallic - 154 degrees




Black - 168 degrees




Our demo car was parked inside Meguiar's Garage since early morning...




Even out of the sun on a warm day the surface temperature can still be warm.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Mike demonstrates how to use a Paint Thickness Gage and relates it to the sanding and buffing process.













Next up it's time to learn proper hand sanding techniques







Mike wraps some Nikken #2000 Finishing Paper around an E-7200 Backing Pad





Mike sprays a water/soap solution to the working face of the paper.



Then on to the area to be sanded...



Then demonstrates the correct way to move the paper over the surface.



As our member's focus on the sanding action taking place...





The milky whitish looking color is actually particles of clear paint sanded off the surface.



Then Mike wipes the excess water and paint residue off the surface.




Here's the best shot we captured showing the level of orange peel, you can see this by
looking at the florescent lights and the rippled looking texture which is what orange peel is on paint.



The after shots will show a more distinctive reflection of the overhead light.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

After hand-sanding, it's time to learn how to use the rotary buffer with a wool cutting pad and a cutting compound to remove the sanding marks and restore a smooth, glossy finish.


In our Advanced class we show how to use our new M105 Ultra Cut Compound with our W5000 Double Sided Wool Cutting pad. In order to use the W5000 Wool Cutting pads you need an adapter that attaches the pad to the buffer.

The adapter has much shorter threads so after the pad is screwed on there are no excess threads sticking out that could cause a potential problem if they came into contact with paint.

These adapters can be found at most PBE stores, our W5000 does not come with this adapter so you need to obtain one in order to use this pad.





Mike says while they look tasty, please don't eat the adapter.




It works easiest to attach the adapter to the pad and then attach the pad/adapter to the spindle of the rotary buffer.



Mike pulls some of the wool back so that everyone can see how the adapter is flush with the working side of the built-in backing plate.





More information on this adapter can be found here

W5000 Dual Sided Wool Pad with Adapter to attach to the Rotary Buffer




Now that the wool pad is properly attached to the rotary buffer it's time to clean the pad and then learn how to use it to remove sanding marks.




This is a brand new pad so it has some loose fibers that will come off easily when you break it in, to help remove some of these loose fibers and to soften the fibers Mike will clean the pad using the System 2000 Pad Cleaner which will clean the pad in in so doing dampen the fibers with a little moisture.

In this picture Mike shows off by cleaning the pad with his eyes closed, don't try this at home kids.




After cleaning the pad in the pad washer, Mike then shows how to use a tool called a Spur to clean the pad again. The pad doesn't really need to be cleaned as it has not been used yet but spurring the pad will lift and loosen up the fibers perfectly preparing it for use. We're also teaching our students the proper way to clean the pad and we strongly emphasize the importance of cleaning your pads often whether they're wool or foam.



Note how Mike runs the pad cleaning spur from the center of the ad while placing some pressure on the handle with his foot while the back of the rotary buffer is resting on the floor.

[Justin Murphy]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

More!

[Jokeman]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Very cool! I need to fly across the country to attend one of these classes.

[yalerd]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Mike demonstrates how to use a Paint Thickness Gage and relates it to the sanding and buffing process.

I have a question regarding the paint thickness gauges, I know what they are for, I know what they read but I would like to know, in what range of the reading it is OK to do a job like wet sanding/car buff? I've been looking for information, searching in google and I can't find this

I remember a thread that Joe aka Superior Shine did "How much paint are you removing" and noticed that a paint correction process, using DA or Rotary, it very little paint you remove (depends on your aggressiveness) and the most removal of clear coat was when wet sanding

So in what reading range is it safe for you to buff or wet sand, do any type of job aggressive enough to remove clear coat.

[Mike Pennington]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

in what reading range is it safe for you to buff or wet sand, do any type of job aggressive enough to remove clear coat.

There is not really a range of what is safe and what is not safe. The bottom line is always use the least aggressive method possible to do the job

The gauges read the entire film build as you know. These gauges are best used to determine how much you are removing in a process. For example, take a reading before you begin, then take a reading during or after the repair and with simple subtraction, you know how much top coat you have removed.

Before - 6.5 mils
After - 6.2 mils
________________

Total removed .3 mils

This is important to know, because the more top coat you remove, the less protection you have on the overall coating.

All the car Mfg's we have worked with (many) don't recommend more than .5 mils removed on a factory finish. Beyond that, you don't leave much clear for UV protection. On a refinish job, there are questions to ask...How much clear was sprayed on etc...keep in mind, most body shops do not spray extra clear for sanding and buffing purposes....

Mike

[Justin Murphy]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

I recently saw a write up from a "high end" detailer and member here (TH0001) on "A"nother detailing forum. He discovered that the PC aka DA removed more clear than wet sanding or rotary.

Maybe he could chime in here.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Maybe he could chime in here.

Or start a dedicated thread so as to keep this one focused on the class, not whether or not a PC can remove more paint faster than an RB. (Though Todd did post his thread on this forum too?)

Thank you.

p.s.

More pictures to come... soon as we catch other duties up...

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Hey, it looks like another great class. You people live on the wrong coast to be teaching classes like that. lol.

[yalerd]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Thanks Mike for the clarification

[LacViet]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

I have learn lots of new thing in this class. Before attend this class, I were afraid of rotary machine. Thanks to both Mike(s) for showing proper technique of using rotary and wet sand, I'm now comfortable using it without any fear, and even if I make any mistake, I have enough knowledge to correct the issue or at least understand why and will not make the same mistake ever again. Thank you Meguiar's for provide us this type of class. Hope this program will continue in the future and more class for other members to learn.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

Time to turn everyone loose so they can try their hand at,

• Hand sanding
• Machine sanding
• Compounding using a rotary buffer
• Polishing using a rotary buffer

Some times it' helps to tape off things like windshield squirters so you don't harm the squirter or load up the water opening with compound by accident.




If you look to the right of the tape you cans see the straight-line scratches in the paint caused by the car wash used by the rental company to wash the cars.




3 members try hand sanding the front clip...



Feedback from an Instructor helps you to perfect your technique that day. Without the feedback you could possibly spend years using the wrong technique, that's the power of our hands-on classes.



Measuring thickness




Eric aka EKL does some hand sanding



Lac Viet does some hand sanding and keeps the surface flushed using a clean water source (Spray bottle of water with a little soap).






Ben aka Piku does some machine sanding using a DA Sander - This is where the idea for DA Polishing originally came from.



John's removing sanding marks using a wool pad, M105 and a rotary buffer




Stacy gets some feedback on how to improve her technique




And she's off and buffing!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

More pictures of our forum members testing out their newly acquired knowledge...