'84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

[Michael Stoops]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

Frank, when I'm back in the office tomorrow I'll shoot an email to Ash Erickson - he's our resident gel coat/Marine Line guru and basically travels around the country teaching people how to clean, polish and restore gel coat finishes. Let's see what he has to say about this.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

On this side (Port/Stern) I used the 91 and my Makita @ 600 rpm. I used a substantial portion of the 32oz 91. To the left of the 91 in a circular pattern I put some Penetrol. It seems that the Penetrol enriches the gelcoat but I don't still don't get the high polish that I'd like.
Tomorrow I'll try the 91 over the Penetrol and see what that looks like.. Thankx all for listening, still open for suggestions..
Mike, I tried the Restorer a while back with unfavorable results.
This finish just may be "Toast"

Hey,

Do you have any Meguiar's #3, #7 or #45 by chance? If so, take some M07 etc and apply it to a 2'x2' area and leave it sit for about 5 minutes or so. Then come back and spray a little #34 or Quik Detailer on the residue and then remove.

Now take the rotary with a wool pad and #49 Oxidation remover. Run the rotary at ~ 1000-1400 RPM. Work that area thoroughly until the compound is a light residue and then remove. Follow again with M45 and a W-8006 Polishing Pad and top with Flagship Marine Wax.

Let me know if that does the trick. If so, you will need to duplicate thoses steps for the whole boat.

Tim

[70olds442]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

Thankx all for the posts... I'll be trying stuff and will get back here with the results.. Thankx again...

[Michael Stoops]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

OK, I just spoke to our resident gel coat expert and trainer, Ash Erickson, and his take is basically this:

Step down to our M67 One Step Compound and give it a few passes. That should be able to get you to the level you see on the left side of your image shown below (after 3 or 4 passes remember):


You can probably get to that appearance faster with the 3M products, but because of their composition the resulting appearance won't last long at all. In fact, a quick wipe down with something like Windex would take it back to almost your starting point! Fast results, short term duration. Probably not what you're after. M67 One Step Compound will ultimately get you there too, and the resulting finish will last longer. But Ash believes you won't get any further than what you see above simply by buffing/polishing.

Ash said that even a heavy application of a pure polish like M07 will just get sucked into the gel coat and not really accomplish a whole lot. His initial reaction upon seeing the photos - "yeah, that gel is about as bad as it gets". Bad as that sounds, he's seen the close up of the original color underneath that tape stripe and is confident that you can achieve that color again - but only by wetsanding to remove all the dead gel on top. Of course you'd need to go back over with the rotary, but he's seen it done time and time again. Frank, you made a comment...

The left section still doesn't have that "Polished" look, but it may be the best I can get out of this ole gelcoat

and Ash very much agrees with that statement, unless you wetsand.

Just a note about the M91 Power Cut Compound: even though it is our heaviest cut product for gel coat finishes, it doesn't play well with gel that is extremely dried out. Basically you're trying to work a very dry compound against a very dry surface and the combination just is not optimal. The comments Mike and Tim have been making regarding the use of pure polishes to nourish the finish and introduce some of those oils is valid, but this gel coat is just too far gone for even that to make a huge difference.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

Ash said that even a heavy application of a pure polish like M07 will just get sucked into the gel coat and not really accomplish a whole lot.

The idea was to apply the pure polish AFTER removing the heavy oxidation.

The idea or goal here is after compounding and removing the dead, oxidized gel-coat is to apply a pure polish and let it penetrate or as you wrote, get sucked into the gel-coat.


If the gel-coat is not so far gone that it cannot be saved then it is the application of the pure polish after cleaning that will restore the richness of color to the original pigments used in the gel-coat and that will help to stave off future oxidation by filling in any imperfections in the gel-coat, (polyester resin), so that water cannot get into these imperfections and cause oxidation. Then of course seal the surface with a quality coating of a wax or sealant as our pure polishes are water soluble.

You could use M45 to be technically correct, sometimes we understand that our customers might already have an automotive pure polish in their arsenal and it's perfectly okay to test one of these for the purpose of checking to see if it helps.

Applying a pure polish after first cleaning the surface is the most you can do to try to revive a neglected gel-coat. Some people want to try anything they can to restore and preserve a neglected finish because sometimes there are no other options, or at least viable option. Just to point out, I've worked on a lot of gel-coats in my life as well as single stage paints and one thing I've learned is...

"You don't know what you can do until you try"


Just to note...
Applying a pure polish after first cleaning the surface is what Meguiar's has been teaching when it comes to gel-coat finishes and single stage paints for as long as we've been making pure polishes. We always state that applying a pure polish is an "Optional Step", you don't have to do it. Our demographic customer base trends towards the type of people that want the best results from their time, money and efforts and are willing to do an optional step like applying a pure polish to gain even better results.

Hope that helps explain it a little deeper.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

The idea was to apply the pure polish AFTER removing the heavy oxidation.

The idea or goal here is after compounding and removing the dead, oxidized gel-coat is to apply a pure polish and let it penetrate or as you wrote, get sucked into the gel-coat.


If the gel-coat is not so far gone that it cannot be saved then it is the application of the pure polish after cleaning that will restore the richness of color to the original pigments used in the gel-coat and that will help to stave off future oxidation by filling in any imperfections in the gel-coat, (polyester resin), so that water cannot get into these imperfections and cause oxidation. Then of course seal the surface with a quality coating of a wax or sealant as our pure polishes are water soluble.

You could use M45 to be technically correct, sometimes we understand that our customers might already have an automotive pure polish in their arsenal and it's perfectly okay to test one of these for the purpose of checking to see if it helps.

Applying a pure polish after first cleaning the surface is the most you can do to try to revive a neglected gel-coat. Some people want to try anything they can to restore and preserve a neglected finish because sometimes there are no other options, or at least viable option. Just to point out, I've worked on a lot of gel-coats in my life and one thing I've learned is...

"You don't know what you can do until you try"


Just to note...
Using a pure polish after first cleaning the surface is what Meguiar's has been teaching when it comes to gel-coat finishes and single stage paints for as long as we've been making pure polishes. We always state that applying a pure polish is an "Optional Step", you don't have to do it. Our demographic customer base trends towards the type of people that want the best results from their time, money and efforts and are willing to do an optional step like applying a pure polish to gain even better results.

Hope that helps explain it a little deeper.

Exactly! That is why I said, use M07 or M45, remove, then compound and then M45 or M07 again, then wax.

Using the M45 or M07 as the first step is only to provide additional oils to the finish in order in making the compounding step much easier. Taking a compound directly to that oxidation will cause the pad to gum up instantly and the polish to flash almost as fast and thereby using a great deal of product. It will work from my experience, but it will be difficult at first until the first heavy level of oxidation is removed.

Applying the M45, will allow you to buff the area for a longer amount of time. I have found that M49 will provide a decent amount of work time versus the amount of cut. M67 is also an excellent choice and something I use of a lot of, though finding it in stores may be more difficult than M49.

After the initial wipe off of M45, start the compounding which now should be much easier. Then coat again with M45 for the exact reason Mike Phillips stated above. This will help to restore the nutrients in the gel coat. Finally, apply your wax.

There are many ways to restore gel coats, and this is the one I mainly use.

Tim

[70olds442]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

Hey guys.. Thankx - Really!!!! I didn't get to work on it today and I will this weekend..
I feel overtechnicateed... Just kiddin.... Hey, I just made up a word...
I understand the thoughts of all of the above and will use them this weekend.. although... I may re-read them a couple more times....
Addendum... Tim I gotcha.. Rejuice the color then, start workin on the shine..

[Mike Phillips]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

Exactly! That is why I said, use M07 or M45, remove, then compound and then M45 or M07 again, then wax.

While using a pure polish or even a cleaner/polish before compounding is not a Meguiar's recommend procedure, it is a step that can be used to restore antique paint on classic cars. Gel-coat finishes react a lot like single stage paints as they tend to be more porous than clear coats and thus will react very well to the application of a pure polish.

It's an extra step to condition the paint before working on it, with the goal making the paint more workable in an effort to do everything you can to preserve original, antique paint which tends to become dry over the years.

These very early products by Meguiar's were not waxes but polishes.

Early Mirror Bright Auto Polish
Another Early Mirror Bright Auto Polish


They created beauty by penetrating into the paint to bring out the full richness of color and to fill any voids to prevent things that would attack and deteriorate paint by just being present in the paint. The same thing applies to oxidized and restored gel-coats.

It very well could be that the gel-coat finish on this boat is past the point of no return...

A little testing with a variety of products will let you know.

[70olds442]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

Back.... Will try the M45 prior to 91.. or

Exactly! That is why I said, use M07 or M45, remove, then compound and then M45 or M07 again, then wax.

Should I: 91 then 49 (Compound) then M45 again or just the 49?
I'll have to see how the 91 reacts after the M45, cause it's a bear like it is now...
On the "Not so oxidized areas" bow and grey top band, life is a little easier.. The 91 works and so does the 49..
Am taking pics as I go...
Man... Got a Meguairs 4000 wool pad and I have wool in my ears, nose, clothes, ground, cars, and surrounding trees...

[70olds442]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

First off a couple of pics of feeble attempts at using the 91 and 49 respectively..





Like you said Mike and Tim... the compounds flashed almost instantaneously.. Notice that I power washed prior to putting on the 91 and 49..

[70olds442]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

At this stage I pretty much didn't think too well of the 91 as you may have expected..
Then I tried to lubricate the powdered finish prior to using the 91 and 49.... I found that using the 49 prior to the 91, I had "clouds forming in the paint.. Faint lighter spots that appeared as though clouds were there.
When I used the 91 then the 49, much different... Very even color appearance...
It was here that I turned from a 3M man to a Meguiar's guy..
The results were outstanding....

























Now to do the remainder.. The use of the M45 prior to the 91 worked great.. It gave me lots more work time and did the job it was suposed to do...

Thank you all for your help.... Ya'll have a great Fourth...

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

That is a dramatic improvement. The boat looks 100 times better. Can hardly wait to see the whole boat finished. The left side looks great.

[RaskyR1]

Re: '84 Formula badly oxidized, need help

Wow! That is turning out great! Excellent job!