Bmw 745il Make-over

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by hvyduty2500
Did you use these products on the whole car or just the sanded spots?

Also do you think this outcome can be achieved with a porter cable 7424?

I can't speak for Superior Shine and answer your first question, but I'll take a guess that he only used the wool pad and the #85 Diamond Cut Compound for removing his sanding marks. The over all finish on this car looks much too nice to use these types of aggressive products over the rest of the finish.

As for your second question, the answer is no. The Porter Cable Dual Action polisher is popular because it's easy to use and is pretty much fail safe, (fool-proof). That is, it's pretty hard to do any damage or instill swirls with the PC. The reason for this is because the PC Oscillates versus rotates like the rotary buffer.

This oscillating action is gentle to the finish. It is this gentle polishing action that makes the PC safe and easy to use, it is also the reason it will not remove sanding marks from automotive finishes, it is too safe and too gentle.

It’s kind of like a double edged sword so to speak.

Does that make sense?

Mike

[butchdave]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
This oscillating action is gentle to the finish. It is this gentle polishing action that makes the PC safe and easy to use, it is also the reason it will not remove sanding marks from automotive finishes, it is too safe and too gentle.

Does that make sense?

Actually Mike, no it doesn't

The PC is really a sander - with the right abrasives, it will take the car back to metal in seconds - so can you explain again?

[Mike Phillips]

Total Topics: 398 - Total Posts: 1725

Originally posted by butchdave
Actually Mike, no it doesn't

The PC is really a sander - with the right abrasives, it will take the car back to metal in seconds - so can you explain again?

Your right butchdave, but the goal is to make the paint look good, not take the car back to metal in seconds.

You can wet sand defects out of the finish of your car, then put a sanding disk on your PC and replace your sanding marks with bare metal, but this defeats the purpose of polishing your paint.

Using the PC with a sanding disk is a great way to prepare a car for paint, but not polish paint. If fact, each and every day body shop technicians remove paint down to the bare metal using an air powered D.A. sander to prepare cars for paint. That is very different than using a dual action polisher to remove defects, in this case sanding marks, in a controlled process, in an effort to leave as much paint as possible on the car while at the same time leaving behind a defect-free surface.

What Superior Shine did was to carefully sand out some defects, then carefully buff out his sanding marks. The goal was to remove the defects and leave behind a flawless finish. Which, I think he successfully did as shown by his pictures.

What I was trying to explain was that because the porter cable dual action polisher has a drastically less aggressive movement, or polishing-action when used on an automotive finish, it is not a realistic way to expect to remove sanding marks and, this is key, leave behind a high gloss finish.

Does that make sense?

Mike

[butchdave]

Mike,

Thats a bit clearer I think. So what I think you are saying is that with a given abrasive and a given amount of effort, the PC will have a more gentle effect.

So as I understand it - its not that you can't remove sanding marks by PC, its that its not the most effective way of doing it.

Is that it? Thanks for your patience!

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by butchdave
Mike,

That’s a bit clearer I think. So what I think you are saying is that with a given abrasive and a given amount of effort, the PC will have a more gentle effect.

No, not exactly. The PC when compared to a rotary buffer like Superior Shine used, will always have a more gentle action. Depending on what type of pad, or in the case of your above question, a sanding disc, it will or will not be less or more aggressive.

The action of a PC is one of Jiggling for lack of a better term.

The action of a Rotary Buffer is of a powerful, spinning or rotating action that cannot be easily stopped and generates a lot force depending on what pad and product your using.

So as I understand it - its not that you can't remove sanding marks by PC, its that its not the most effective way of doing it.

Is that it? Thanks for your patience!

That's correct! In order to remove a defect, like a scratch, you must remove the paint surrounding the defect until the surround areas are equal to or level with the lowest depth of the scratch. Depending on how deep the scratch is, this can mean removing quite a bit of paint. (If it's a deep scratch). That’s where a discussion on film build or paint thickness comes into play.

I just posted some information on the capabilities of a dual action polisher here,

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...=&threadid=294

Suffice to say, there is a limit to how deep of a defect the porter cable dual action polisher can remove while still leaving behind a clear and glossy finish.

Mike

[wetwillysmobile]

Hey Joe great job. I've come to expect nothing less from you, and I do appreciate you sharing some of your secrets with me awhile back. They have made a huge difference in the amount of work required.

Thanks

[Superior Shine]

Mike you answered that perfect.

I used a rotory over the whole car with Megs maroon pad. The sanding areas are the only areas that got the wool pad.

I did try the maroon pad on the sanding marks first but this 745 has very hard paint and I was generating TOO much heat with it.

Willy-thank you for the kind words.

[hvyduty2500]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
I can't speak for Superior Shine and answer your first question, but I'll take a guess that he only used the wool pad and the #85 Diamond Cut Compound for removing his sanding marks. The over all finish on this car looks much too nice to use these types of aggressive products over the rest of the finish.

As for your second question, the answer is no. The Porter Cable Dual Action polisher is popular because it's easy to use and is pretty much fail safe, (fool-proof). That is, it's pretty hard to do any damage or instill swirls with the PC. The reason for this is because the PC Oscillates versus rotates like the rotary buffer.

This oscillating action is gentle to the finish. It is this gentle polishing action that makes the PC safe and easy to use, it is also the reason it will not remove sanding marks from automotive finishes, it is too safe and too gentle.

It’s kind of like a double edged sword so to speak.

Does that make sense?

Mike

Yes Mike that i can understand, but I think I asked the wrong question.

Over and above the sanding marks is it possible to achieve the shine and deepness produced here with the PC and the steps following the #85?

Thanks for all of your input!

[mopar]

that looks amazing

[bigjason]

Great job!!
How much you charge for this job?

[JaguarXJ6]

Great work and write up! You lead, we follow. 'Nuff said.

Sunny

[SolarA853]

Superior Shine- I'm a noob around here, but I am always blown away at your results!

Whenever I see a black car you have worked on, it makes me wish I had gotten a black SRT-4 instead of yellow. Keep up the great work, and thanks for sharing.

Mike in AZ

[Scottwax]

Terrific work Joe! You are a true professional! I've done some rotary swirl removal too, courtesy of Moritz BMW in Arlington near me....so much so that I warn all my regulars to make sure they specify the make ready guys don't touch their new cars. I fail to understand how any dealership (even Kia) would allow such horrible work to go on under their own roof.

I haven't done any paint correction at the level you did though with color sanding and major buffing steps. Looks like I need to get some body panels when I get a rotary and not only practice how to attain swirl free results but also to work on my wetsanding skills. I took some paint and body classes years ago, but it has been too long for me to have enough confidence to go wild on a customer's car yet.

[Scottwax]

Joe-forgot to ask. I know the 745s do have some orange peel issues. When you wetsanded just in spots, was it just enough to remove the defects or did it remove orange peel as well? On a car with bad orange peel, I would think spot wetsanding might be noticable...ie, orange peel free areas amid a sea of orange peel.

Comments?

[Superior Shine]

This BMW didnt have bad orange peel.

If it would have, you can sand out the defect then widen the area your sanding to kind of blend the smoothness into the orange peel so it isnt noticable.