The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

[David Wyllie]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

With Victoria Concours Red (in particular), I wouldn't (however) give it that much credit. Based on my test, it 1) didn't look any better, 2) felt worse than others and 3) lasted the shortest. As far as I'm concerned, with the price tag it carries, that is a clear case of three strikes and you're out.

For the sake of possibly having my words misinterpreted wrongly I wish to thank you for you blunt assessment of our Victoria Concours Red Wax. We took your comments seriously to the point of scrutinizing each of the raw materials that go into the making of this wax for being defective or nonfunctional.

Also for raw materials that were purchased more than a year before we requested current samples from suppliers for comparison. Our findings that the fourteen year old formula could be reduced in the amount of viscous oils used as a surface active agent which lingers when certain types of buffing towels are used. Some don't do the job right and others grab and remover almost everything which will reduce longevity greatly.

Further, if it is of any interest to the membership there has just been posted the last installment of a 6 1/2 month long test that was a little gentler in their findings. UK Version of the wax test,

autopia.org/forum/car-detailing-product-discussion/109300-uk-version-wax-test-7.html#post1216165


[Edit: Clickable link removed -Mike Phillips]

[Mike Phillips]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

Just to note, new member's can post any clickable links till after they have over 30 substantial posts to this forum. This prevents spamming and hit & run posters.

Forum Rules

9. Clickable Links are allowed after new members have over 30 substantial posts . Self-promoting clickable links are not allowed and will not be tolerated in messages. Self-promoting links are allowed in signature Lines once a member reaches Level 2 Privileges. Self-promoting statements or phone numbers are also not allowed in your posts.



Thanks for understanding and complying with the forum rules.

[Dibbuz]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

I read the entire thread and I loved reading it. Thanks for doing this

I personally have no problems with the Natty's but then again I have a jar and not a sample. Love the smell!

I have several waxes like M16,21,26,NXT2.0,Dodo Supernatural, Collinite 845, Wolfgang Deep Gloss & Fuzion but I there is very little difference in gloss. I do however feel the difference in slickness.

For example the Fuzion is still very smooth to the paint after a month while the Supernatural is alot less smooth. So there is alot of difference.
I'm planning a test for myself in Springtime with Supernatural/Fuzion/????? on my hood.

[ColonelCash]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

This is a fantastic thread. I have also enjoyed reading it from start to finish.

[Bence]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

Wow, I almost missed this.

3Fitty, I think that even a weekend warrior has the potential to learn, gather experience. The comments you've made on 2 extremely high quality paste waxes show that this unfortunatley not always the case. In your case I hope it's not just the result of a closed mind, just a lack of overall experience with waxes - especially with different application/removal characteristics.

Your presence on this forum shows that you are ready to raise your niveau.

So, let's talk about the Collinite 476 and the Victoria Concours a bit (basic lingo). The 476 is a synthetic/carnauba blend formulated to give a very stable film which lasts a very long time, gives absolutely superior beading and excellent physical protection. The traditional Collinite appearance is bright, reflective. They can look wetter with polishes that contain wax such as 1Z. However it is an industrial product, hence it has a few quirky characteristics for the novice detailer. It is highly sensitive to a thin layer, to certain outside conditions, and most importantly, removal time. It is best to apply to 1-3 panels before removal (technique/time dependent). It should come off easily, although not dusting-easily. The resulting surface is slick, and has good optics; and usually the latter gains a bit after the first wash. In some regards it is similar to the next product:

Victoria Concours. It is one of the most sophisticated pure beauty waxes out there. As you may know, there are a few companies in our little world, who offer bare hand applied carnauba waxes. VW is such a company. Victoria waxes are formulated with cosmetic grade ingredients (where possible), therefore a bare hand application will not stress your body as other similar products can with more synthetic components. Remember, our skin is more porous than you'd think, so the absorption factor definitely plays a role here. So it contains carnauba wax (#1), fine oils and a friendly solvent. You won't find any kind of silicones in it.

As with any hand applied carnauba, you take a bit out of the jar, soften it by rubbing it between your palms and then massage it onto the surface. Spread as thin as possible. If you feel that your hands start to become grabby, just rub your palms together again and your skin will release a bit more wax. Bare hand appication is not a quick process for the inexperienced, but a very nice tactile impression. You'll find details on your vehicle that went unnoticed until that day. However, it's not for the "quickly slap on a coat" mentality. This process is a relaxing, sensual one BUT NOT A MUST. It is rather a style, a ceremony. You can apply the Concours with an applicator too and you will end up using a bit less wax.

Now comes the most important thing. Concours has a short setting time! That means if you are initially clumsy and slow, you can start to remove the wax from the given PANEL as soon as you finished it. The "recommended" setting time of Concours is somewhere between 1-5 minutes, but this is really depends on the outside conditions (application temps, humidity, etc.). Generally, 2-3 minutes is totally sufficient. That means: apply it to one panel at a time. If you are slow with the bare hand application, apply it to just ones section at a time. If you are quick with an applicator, wax 2-3 panels before starting to wipe off the first. If Concours dries onto the surface, you'll need a belt sander to get it off. But seriously, it is almost impossible to remove. It is not a flaw, it's the CHARACTERISTICS of Concours. The solvent flashes off and the remaining wax film is dry and stubborn. However, when you made this serious mistake, just reintroduce the solvent to the dried wax film (wax over the residue) and the wax will be easily removable.

For removal, take a short nap microfiber or plush cotton towel, and slowly remove the wax. As with other highly concentrated *pure* carnaubas, it may sweat a bit after a couple of hours, but you can knock these marks down with a spritz & wipe with a QD (preferably VW QD, as it is a truly excellent QD). After setting, the wax should come off easily and the resulting surface has a characteristic heavily smooth feel, not snotty slick like synthetics. For best results (complete coverage/aesthetics/durability/protection) always keep 3 layers on the car. 2 layers give complete coverage, 3 has the best appearance with a bright, very reflective finish, excellent depth and color rendition. Going over 3 layers is pointless.

VW Concours is an honest looking wax, which doesn't alter the true shade of the color. If you want additional slickness, just use the VW QD. It is surprisingly durable, especially it is considered as a *beauty wax*. Alternatively you can try the Collectors too which is a bit oilier than Concours, easier to remove but its appearance is very similar. I kept nice layers of the original Cruising on my car. It was an acrylic-enhanced Victoria wax (discontinued). It absolutely rivaled #16 in every conceivable ways in comparable conditions (half car VWCru, half #16 in Hungary) but looked nicer - however this is subjective.

Sooo, if you understand these characteristics of certain *heavy* paste waxes, you might discover their therapeutic application/removal processes and you'll like them more.

[Alfisti]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

Nice write-up Bence... you should be an automotive journalist.

[Mikejl]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

Sooo, if you understand these characteristics of certain *heavy* paste waxes, you might discover their therapeutic application/removal processes and you'll like them more.

So if I use their waxes and the application methods you describe what benenfits to my health can I expect?

Mike

[Alfisti]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

So if I use their waxes and the application methods you describe what benenfits to my health can I expect?

Mike

A psychic karma will envelope you and angels will serenade you while you detail the rest of your car.

[akimel]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

A psychic karma will envelope you and angels will serenade you while you detail the rest of your car.

Now that is cool! I guess I'll have to at least wax my car by hand at least once. I have always wanted to hear the singing of angels.

[VoicesInMyHead]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

So if I use their waxes and the application methods you describe what benenfits to my health can I expect?

Mike

It all depends on how you are applying... your hands have a much lower DPS than say a DA or a Rotary, especially if it''s an Epic Rotary with a purple name. If you are in Northrend (rather than Outland), and you use counter-clockwise hand rotation, your Health and Mana are increased by 145 for 1 hour. Must remain seated for at least 10 seconds during rotation. Effect doubled for a Night Elf Hunter...

Oh, wait, I'm mixing my forums...

[christian6984]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

nice test was also about to say we have been upto something similar in the UK (performed by a professional detailer) he has been carrying out wax and sealant tests but this differs as it is regarding how long wax/sealants last.

http://www.meguiars.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5085

http://www.meguiars.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5210

[3Fitty]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

3Fitty, I think that even a weekend warrior has the potential to learn, gather experience.

I agree. That is why I did the test; to satisfy my personal curiosity and share my findings.

The comments you've made on 2 extremely high quality paste waxes show that this unfortunatley not always the case.

Or, simply that they do not work well.

In your case I hope it's not just the result of a closed mind

Could be, except that I praised certain waxes where it was warranted. Frankly, if VW was that "magic wax" that made my car into a Gallardo and lasted for 2 years, I assure you, I would have told you.

just a lack of overall experience with waxes

Well, this is where I think you really could be right but your conclusion would still ultimately be wrong. I'm not a pro, far from it, but I'd be willing to bet the majority of "enthusiasts" who have read this thread, have more in common with me (ie: the weekend warrior) than with a pro, or those to claim to have a chemical engineering degree in automotive wax.

- especially with different application/removal characteristics.

See, if you read the beginning of this thread you would have come across a quote where I said "dude, I just want to wax my car". What I love about the 5 step approach is its simplicity. But if Meg's started telling me that I couldn't mix polymer A with life force B, I just take the bus and sell my car.

Your presence on this forum shows that you are ready to raise your niveau.

One of my law professors once said, "never trust a lawyer who uses latin phrases"... as such, your use of the word "niveau" has caused me great anxiety and I'm going to have to read the rest of your post with a skeptical eye!

So, let's talk about the Collinite 476 and the Victoria Concours a bit (basic lingo). The 476 is a synthetic/carnauba blend formulated to give a very stable film which lasts a very long time, gives absolutely superior beading and excellent physical protection. The traditional Collinite appearance is bright, reflective. They can look wetter with polishes that contain wax such as 1Z. However it is an industrial product, hence it has a few quirky characteristics for the novice detailer. It is highly sensitive to a thin layer, to certain outside conditions, and most importantly, removal time. It is best to apply to 1-3 panels before removal (technique/time dependent). It should come off easily, although not dusting-easily. The resulting surface is slick, and has good optics; and usually the latter gains a bit after the first wash. In some regards it is similar to the next product:

I don't know if what you wrote above is true and I would only fully believe it to be true if you had some scientific data to prove it, but having said that, if it is true, Collinite 476s should have a label on it that says "not for dummies like 3Fitty".

Victoria Concours. It is one of the most sophisticated pure beauty waxes out there.

I found this line very amusing. VC is "sophisticated", "pure" and "beautiful", heck if I didn't know better, I'd want to date her!

As you may know, there are a few companies in our little world, who offer bare hand applied carnauba waxes. VW is such a company.

Yes, yes... I know. The infomercials about the rocket chef told me I was going to be a whiz in the kitchen as well. Turns out I couldn't even properly chop an onion.

My point is this... who cares about bare handed wax application? Do you have any data which shows it is better or offers some advantages over conventional application methods. One of my sisters would put pigeon droppings on her face if you told her it would reduce wrinkles. Some people will try anything.

Victoria waxes are formulated with cosmetic grade ingredients

Dude, I've got a wife to slap lipstick on, I don't need lipstick for my car.

therefore a bare hand application will not stress your body as other similar products can with more synthetic components. Remember, our skin is more porous than you'd think, so the absorption factor definitely plays a role here. So it contains carnauba wax (#1), fine oils and a friendly solvent. You won't find any kind of silicones in it.

No quite sure of your point hear, but I appreciate the concern for my supple and soft hands.

As with any hand applied carnauba, you take a bit out of the jar, soften it by rubbing it between your palms and then massage it onto the surface. Spread as thin as possible. If you feel that your hands start to become grabby, just rub your palms together again and your skin will release a bit more wax. Bare hand appication is not a quick process for the inexperienced, but a very nice tactile impression. You'll find details on your vehicle that went unnoticed until that day. However, it's not for the "quickly slap on a coat" mentality. This process is a relaxing, sensual one BUT NOT A MUST. It is rather a style, a ceremony. You can apply the Concours with an applicator too and you will end up using a bit less wax.

Okay, I am going to do this 100%, just not to my car! Any time a married man wants to get "relaxing and sensual" I think it should be with his wife (or girlfriend - if he can afford one).

Now comes the most important thing. Concours has a short setting time! That means if you are initially clumsy and slow, you can start to remove the wax from the given PANEL as soon as you finished it. The "recommended" setting time of Concours is somewhere between 1-5 minutes, but this is really depends on the outside conditions (application temps, humidity, etc.). Generally, 2-3 minutes is totally sufficient. That means: apply it to one panel at a time. If you are slow with the bare hand application, apply it to just ones section at a time. If you are quick with an applicator, wax 2-3 panels before starting to wipe off the first. If Concours dries onto the surface, you'll need a belt sander to get it off. But seriously, it is almost impossible to remove. It is not a flaw, it's the CHARACTERISTICS of Concours. The solvent flashes off and the remaining wax film is dry and stubborn. However, when you made this serious mistake, just reintroduce the solvent to the dried wax film (wax over the residue) and the wax will be easily removable.

Well, I certainly didn't do this.

After setting, the wax should come off easily and the resulting surface has a characteristic heavily smooth feel, not snotty slick like synthetics. For best results (complete coverage/aesthetics/durability/protection) always keep 3 layers on the car. 2 layers give complete coverage, 3 has the best appearance with a bright, very reflective finish, excellent depth and color rendition. Going over 3 layers is pointless.

Sorry and I really hate to ask this, but do you have an scientific date which supports these rather bold claims?

VW Concours is an honest looking wax, which doesn't alter the true shade of the color.

Now I'm a bit confused. What do you mean by "alter the shade". I thought clear coats were "clear" and you aren't really even touching paint, no? Also, if by altering the true shade you mean "not making it look bad", well, isn't that kind of the point?

however this is subjective.

Isn't the whole "looks part" of waxing "subjective"?

[3Fitty]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

So if I use their waxes and the application methods you describe what benenfits to my health can I expect?

Mike

I think I'm getting arthritis (at a young age), maybe VC will help! I'm going the email "The Doctors" and see if they will be able to answer that one!

[mcox]

Re: The great 9 wax shootout!

Yep! Its good to see you posting again.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: The Great 9 Wax Shoot Out!

It looks like I missed some of the last few posts.

First of all, I want to clarify that I am the owner of the Victoria Concours jar and gave 3Fitty a sample of the wax.

Second, I live far away from 3Fitty and the conditions here are very different. However, I got the same results.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I am not paid by any company to use or review and post about their products. In fact, I am always eager to try new and interesting products just to see how my results match up to the results of others. So, I will give an honest review of the product.

Let's talk about Concours...

In my testing, I applied it to the freshly clayed and prepped (wiped with IPA) hood of our Expedition. At the time of application, it was 10 P.M. and the temperature was 70f with 45% humidity. After reading the directions, I applied the wax using a foam applicator. The wax was applied to half the hood and left to dry for two minutes. I tried to remove the product with an Ultimate Wipe, but it smeared like crazy. So, I let it set for another five minutes and tried to wipe it off. Again, it smeared. After ten more minutes, the product was still incredibly difficult to remove. Finally, I got all the wax off after working for five minutes.

On the other side of the hood, I used some NXT 2.0 (some people constantly complain about the durability of the product, so I elected to use it). After about three months, Victoria Concours was gone (even though it only rained four times during this period). The NXT was holding up fine. Even today, the NXT is still there and going strong.

When I chose a product for the microfiber testing, I chose Victoria Concours. Even then, it performed just the same with each towel.


After conversing with David Wyllie, I did recieve a new jar of Victoria Concours. But, I have not tried it. The weather has become quite cold and Victoria Concours needs absolute optimal conditions for it to work.

So, instead of blaming the users, maybe there really is something wrong with the product.

Victoria Concours. It is one of the most sophisticated pure beauty waxes out there. As you may know, there are a few companies in our little world, who offer bare hand applied carnauba waxes. VW is such a company.

You can apply ANY paste wax by hand. But, I have always found that a simple foam applicator delivers more consistent results.