Help with replacement for #83

[acsuppa]

I'm wondering if D151 will be my best choice. I really like #80 but need something more aggressive sometimes. I've been using #83 for a long time but never really liked it too much. I Want something that I can work in a little longer without it drying on me. The reason I never really liked #83 is because I could never work it in well because it would dry and get really dusty. How well can D151 be worked in before it dries? I always liked #80 because it can be worked for a while to completely break it down. #83 on the other hand, dries for me before I can really break it down and I believe my results aren't as good as they could be. For that reason, I've never applied it via rotary. I always apply to cool paint and out of the sun. I've read that other people have the same problem as I do with the product. I actually read somewhere that this guy would add #7 and sometimes other polishes to it to make it a little more "lubricated" and it helped with the dusting and quick drying problem. I've never mixed products so I don't think I'll do that route. Any options on what I could try?

[Nappers]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

How much 83 do you put on? That could be a problem. I too have slight drying fast problems at times and shoot some QD to aid in removing. I work an area about 12X12. I put a bead of 83 the size of say a mouse cord in size about an inch inboard from the pad and "kiss" the paint in 5 areas, 2 up, 2 down (square) and one in the middle, smear it around and go for it. I work it in with overlapping passes back and forth and up and down for about say....a minute or so(never timed myself) and it works great for me with dusting hear and there. I clean the pad on the fly after every pass and use several terry cloths when I do so.

D151 I've read is almost as aggressive as M83.

I too have read that drops of 7 while polishing helps. Never tried it but imagine it wont hurt.

[jmakado]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

You should really give #83 a go on the rotary before you give up on it. I find it's much more friendly on a rotary with a cutting pad than on a DA with a polishing pad. I have yet to try it on a DA with the new cutting pads....add that to my to do list I guess!

If you are dead set on something different and need more cut try out SOLO.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

I'm wondering if D151 will be my best choice. I really like #80 but need something more aggressive sometimes.

What are you mostly working on?
Production Detailing?
Show Car Detailing?

D151 is a one-step cleaner/wax for high production detail shops, it's not intended for or formulated for show car detailing, it does work really well as a one-step cleaner/wax and is very versatile in how it can be applied and it's able to tackle a wide spectrum of paint conditions but do keep in mind what it is and who it's for.

I've been using #83 for a long time but never really liked it too much. I Want something that I can work in a little longer without it drying on me.

The reason I never really liked #83 is because I could never work it in well because it would dry and get really dusty.

M83 works really well as a cleaner/polish, by this I mean that it removes swirls and leaves a nice finish. People do have problems with it becoming gummy when their pad becomes wet with product and as it dries it does become dusty.

The most important thing you can do to make working with M83 easier is to clean your pad often, as in after each application of product or after every other application of product and when your foam pad becomes wet or saturated with product, switch to a dry pad.

Sometime when you're using M83 with a DA Polisher, pay careful attention as to how the product performs when you first start out, then pay attention to how the product performs as you continue to work around a car using the same pad, you'll notice a fall-off in performance as your pad becomes wet with built-up product that gets into the foam pad making the foam wet.

Switch to a clean, dry identical pad and start buffing again and see what you notice? The product will start performing like it did when you started out. For some reason the wetter a foam pad gets seems to affect how the product works on the surface. this is the same for both rotary and foam, so before starting a project try to have plenty of clean, dry foam pads on hand and switch to a clean dry pad when you notice performance falling off.

How well can D151 be worked in before it dries?

Honestly I have not worked with this product a lot, as I don't do much production work, from my experience, (and other can chime in if they like), it has pretty good play time, as in the buffing cycle is longer than M83 at least with a DA Polisher. It's also very easy to wipe off whereas M83 can sometimes get gummy and be more difficult to wipe off.

Another huge difference between these products is they're apples to oranges in that with M83 all your doing is cleaning and polishing the paint, with D151 your cleaning, polishing and leaving behind protective wax coating which M83 does not do. The visual difference between the two is the paint will be much shinier with D151 because of the wax factor.

I always liked #80 because it can be worked for a while to completely break it down.

Actually, I've been told the type of diminishing abrasives used in M80 break down more quickly than some of our other cleaner/polishes but because it's a wetter product you have what's called a longer buffing cycle or as we say here on the forum longer play time. That means the cleaning action takes place in the first part of your buffing passes and then as you continue to work your pad over the surface the abrading falls off and now you're just polishing and its a combination of the foam, the polishing oils and any residual product on the surface working together for a polishing-effect that creates a glossy, smooth clear surface.

#83 on the other hand, dries for me before I can really break it down and I believe my results aren't as good as they could be. For that reason, I've never applied it via rotary.

See my notes above about dry pad versus wet pad and if you have not tried using the product in this way maybe give it a dry.

[acsuppa]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

What are you mostly working on?
Production Detailing?
Show Car Detailing?

D151 is a one-step cleaner/wax for high production detail shops, it's not intended for or formulated for show car detailing, it does work really well as a one-step cleaner/wax and is very versatile in how it can be applied and it's able to tackle a wide spectrum of paint conditions but do keep in mind what it is and who it's for.



M83 works really well as a cleaner/polish, by this I mean that it removes swirls and leaves a nice finish. People do have problems with it becoming gummy when their pad becomes wet with product and as it dries it does become dusty.

The most important thing you can do to make working with M83 easier is to clean your pad often, as in after each application of product or after every other application of product and when your foam pad becomes wet or saturated with product, switch to a dry pad.

Sometime when you're using M83 with a DA Polisher, pay careful attention as to how the product performs when you first start out, then pay attention to how the product performs as you continue to work around a car using the same pad, you'll notice a fall-off in performance as your pad becomes wet with built-up product that gets into the foam pad making the foam wet.

Switch to a clean, dry identical pad and start buffing again and see what you notice? The product will start performing like it did when you started out. For some reason the wetter a foam pad gets seems to affect how the product works on the surface. this is the same for both rotary and foam, so before starting a project try to have plenty of clean, dry foam pads on hand and switch to a clean dry pad when you notice performance falling off.



Honestly I have not worked with this product a lot, as I don't do much production work, from my experience, (and other can chime in if they like), it has pretty good play time, as in the buffing cycle is longer than M83 at least with a DA Polisher. It's also very easy to wipe off whereas M83 can sometimes get gummy and be more difficult to wipe off.

Another huge difference between these products is they're apples to oranges in that with M83 all your doing is cleaning and polishing the paint, with D151 your cleaning, polishing and leaving behind protective wax coating which M83 does not do. The visual difference between the two is the paint will be much shinier with D151 because of the wax factor.





Actually, I've been told the type of diminishing abrasives used in M80 break down more quickly than some of our other cleaner/polishes but because it's a wetter product you have what's called a longer buffing cycle or as we say here on the forum longer play time. That means the cleaning action takes place in the first part of your buffing passes and then as you continue to work your pad over the surface the abrading falls off and now you're just polishing and its a combination of the foam, the polishing oils and any residual product on the surface working together for a polishing-effect that creates a glossy, smooth clear surface.





See my notes above about dry pad versus wet pad and if you have not tried using the product in this way maybe give it a dry.

Thanks Mike! You really picked my post apart and answered all my questions nicely. I'm not sure how to Multi-quote like you did so I'll try to answer all your questions here. It would have made it easier to answer the questions for easier reference.

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. I "try" to give the best results that I possibly can. I don't want to do "production work". (No offensive to people that do this type of work.) I'm not, nor ever was a fan of "All-In-One" type products. That is why I am hooked on the Pro and Detailer Line products. They allow me to use the product that I need to do what I'm looking for. Paint correction, Polish etc. D151 seems like a great product but it is like comparing apples to oranges like you said.

As far as #83 application goes, I use about the same amount that I would use of #80. I guess I can try a little more next time to see it I have more play time. I never really notice my pad getting to saturated though. I always keep a terry cloth towel on hand so that I can clean my pad. I see the results that #83 gives and I just don't gets those type of results. I'm sure I can get better results if I could just play with it longer. That's why I don't use it with my rotary. Well actually, I starting to think I may get better results since I won't need to work it in as long with the rotary vs. my DA. What do you think?

I agree with what you said about the play time of #80. Having more play time because it's "wetter". I wish #83 was more like that. It worries me when #83 get dry too quick. I don't get the results that I want, plus IO don't want to "work in" a dry product for the obvious reasons.

What do you think of adding a few drops of #7 to the pad with #83? I'm sure it won't hurt. Will it help?

[acsuppa]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

How much 83 do you put on? That could be a problem. I too have slight drying fast problems at times and shoot some QD to aid in removing. I work an area about 12X12. I put a bead of 83 the size of say a mouse cord in size about an inch inboard from the pad and "kiss" the paint in 5 areas, 2 up, 2 down (square) and one in the middle, smear it around and go for it. I work it in with overlapping passes back and forth and up and down for about say....a minute or so(never timed myself) and it works great for me with dusting hear and there. I clean the pad on the fly after every pass and use several terry cloths when I do so.

D151 I've read is almost as aggressive as M83.

I too have read that drops of 7 while polishing helps. Never tried it but imagine it wont hurt.

That's basically the same amount that I use. Pretty much the same as #80. The I "kiss" the panel that I'm working on about 4 or 5 times. I also clean my pad on the fly with a terry cloth towel. I use the same method for all cleaner and polishes. I just have very little play time with the product. I'm just able to work in the product for a very short time before it gets dusty and dry.

[acsuppa]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

You should really give #83 a go on the rotary before you give up on it. I find it's much more friendly on a rotary with a cutting pad than on a DA with a polishing pad. I have yet to try it on a DA with the new cutting pads....add that to my to do list I guess!

If you are dead set on something different and need more cut try out SOLO.

Well I don't want to give it up on yet. The reason that I haven't tried it with the rotary yet is because of the quick play time that I'm experiencing. I definitely don't want to work with a dry product using a rotary. I replied to Mike on his reply to me and it got me thinking while I read his reply. Maybe using it with the rotary will give me better results since I won't have to work it as long. Does that make sense?

You know, I always wanted to give Solo a try but wasn't sure what results I could expect since it's designed for new paint. Have you tried it?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

As far as #83 application goes, I use about the same amount that I would use of #80. I guess I can try a little more next time to see it I have more play time. I never really notice my pad getting to saturated though. I always keep a terry cloth towel on hand so that I can clean my pad. I see the results that #83 gives and I just don't gets those type of results. I'm sure I can get better results if I could just play with it longer. That's why I don't use it with my rotary. Well actually, I starting to think I may get better results since I won't need to work it in as long with the rotary vs. my DA. What do you think?

If you're pad isn't getting saturated with product as you work around a car then it could be you're underusing the product, so try using a little more product and see what happens.

More information...

How to apply product to the face of your foam buffing pads

Below is how to apply fresh product to the face of you foam buffing pad when first starting out and your pads are dry. After you break you buffing pad in by working this initial amount of product over a section of paint, you can cut down on the amount of product you're using as the pad will be less likely to absorb as much product as it will become damp with product.

Also, be on the 5.0 speed setting, you want your foam pad 'busy' when doing defect removal.

What do you think of adding a few drops of #7 to the pad with #83? I'm sure it won't hurt. Will it help?

There's no official Meguiar's recommendation for doing this so I'm not going to be the one to start...

The 80's series is water-based for a number of reasons, one being easy clean up with water and soap, this means you could spray a little water onto the surface as you're working the product and see if that increases your working time a little. Be careful because if you add to much water your pad will spray product all over you.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

Thanks Mike! You really picked my post apart and answered all my questions nicely. I'm not sure how to Multi-quote like you did

There's no button for this, you have to go into "Code View", or what's called "Editor Mode" in vBulletin and hand code where you want the breaks that show up as dissected portions in a quote format.

It's this little button in the upper right hand corner of your message box.

Looks like this --->

Takes more time but makes reading and digesting information easier and if a person can't digest the posted information it doesn't do them any good, so a little extra time invested into a reply helps you and everyone that reads this into the future...

[acsuppa]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

If you're pad isn't getting saturated with product as you work around a car then it could be you're underusing the product, so try using a little more product and see what happens.

More information...

How to apply product to the face of your foam buffing pads

Below is how to apply fresh product to the face of you foam buffing pad when first starting out and your pads are dry. After you break you buffing pad in by working this initial amount of product over a section of paint, you can cut down on the amount of product you're using as the pad will be less likely to absorb as much product as it will become damp with product.

Also, be on the 5.0 speed setting, you want your foam pad 'busy' when doing defect removal.




There's no official Meguiar's recommendation for doing this so I'm not going to be the one to start...

The 80's series is water-based for a number of reasons, one being easy clean up with water and soap, this means you could spray a little water onto the surface as you're working the product and see if that increases your working time a little. Be careful because if you add to much water your pad will spray product all over you.

Thanks million Mike! I'll have to try more product. I don't use as much as you are showing. I use a little less. Much much less.

I usually keep the PC at around 4. I'll bump it up to 5 next time with a little more product and see what results I get.

I understand about mixing products. Thanks again Mike.

[acsuppa]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

There's no button for this, you have to go into "Code View", or what's called "Editor Mode" in vBulletin and hand code where you want the breaks that show up as dissected portions in a quote format.

It's this little button in the upper right hand corner of your message box.

Looks like this --->

Takes more time but makes reading and digesting information easier and if a person can't digest the posted information it doesn't do them any good, so a little extra time invested into a reply helps you and everyone that reads this into the future...

Thanks Mike. I'll definitely give it a try next time.

[jmakado]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

For #83 on a DA I like to do one full circle on the pad in a spiral shape so I have product covering the pad from inside to outside once the machine starts up. Once I have primed the pad in this manner I prefer to put dots around the pad instead of lines. I use 5 or 6 dots evenly spaced around the outside of the pad. This, for whatever reason, helps me use pads a little longer before they become too saturated and need cleaning. Make sure you are using a nylon brush when product starts to dry on the pad and use a terry cloth towel after ever 1 or 2 applications to absorb excess product in the pad. It will help a pad cut more evenly over a longer period of time.

[acsuppa]

Re: Help with replacement for #83

For #83 on a DA I like to do one full circle on the pad in a spiral shape so I have product covering the pad from inside to outside once the machine starts up. Once I have primed the pad in this manner I prefer to put dots around the pad instead of lines. I use 5 or 6 dots evenly spaced around the outside of the pad. This, for whatever reason, helps me use pads a little longer before they become too saturated and need cleaning. Make sure you are using a nylon brush when product starts to dry on the pad and use a terry cloth towel after ever 1 or 2 applications to absorb excess product in the pad. It will help a pad cut more evenly over a longer period of time.

Thanks for the tips.