What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

[daneZ_toda]

If you finish the surface with an abrasive polish like #105, 83, 80, and get it down to where the wax can be applied, why is a glaze needed?

I understand that some glazes like #7 or deep crystal polish will fill in some scratches and some swirls for a while (week) then they return. This may be good for a car show in a pinch but why would you not just get all these swirls out with a abrasive polish first then there is nothing to hide?

Help me understand the need for glazes.

thanks

[Murr1525]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

Even when swirls are gone, the paint could be dry, and there also will be microscopic imperfections in the paint. Moisturizing and filling in the imperfections will add more gloss and refelection to the paint.

As you say, polishes do not last long when exposed to the elements, this is why a wax is placed over top to protect and seal in the results.

Also, some products are cleaners only. But some, like #80, #83 have polishing oils in them, so they effectively do both steps anyway. If you were to use #7 after #80, you may not see much of a difference because of that.

[Ryan L.]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

Pure polishes such as Show Car Glaze (#7) and Deep Crystal System Polish are not always needed. If you feel that you have reached the "maximum potential" of the paint, that is as good as you can make it look, then a pure polish it not needed.

Pure polishes add a lot of oils to the paint, thus making the paint look deeper, darker and wetter.

Its really a personal preference.

Ryan

EDIT: Murr1525 got to it before me...

[Murr1525]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

Only barely...

[akimel]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

Murr, are you saying that if one has done a good job on one's car with #80, then the application of #7 or #81 will probably not result in measurable improvement, even for a darker car? I realize that some folks here swear that the application of a pure glaze significantly approves the beauty, but others have intimated that #80 is already so full of the polishes contained in #7 that little is to be gained by applying #7 (or #5 or #81).

I have a bottle of #7. Given some of the posts I have read indicating that the polish can be somewhat difficult to work with and remove, I have been reluctant to use it. Yet I do want to do what I can, within my limited resources and abilities, to bring my Luthien to a show car shine.

What do you and others recommend? Would it be better for me to tryout #81 first, given my lack of detailing experience? TIA.

Al

[Murr1525]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

I'm not saying you wont see any difference.... but the need isnt there when you already used a cleaner/polish, which was more the OP's point. Now, the visual difference with an added pure polish may not be big either, or it could be big to one person and not to another. Or even a difference, but not woth the extra time.

#7's not that hard to work with... If you already have it, try, it. Maybe dont do your entire car right away. Just have to apply thin, and dont try to remove all at once. Sort of wipe an area, then wipe the area again. Dont focus on one tiny spot over and over when removing. And apply thin.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

I tested out #7 on my well kept 2006 Ford RED paint the not very long ago and when I first applied it (Only did half the hood) I didn't think I could see a lick of difference. I ended up just waxing the entire hood over, but not applying the #7 to the other half.

The next day I pulled my car out in BRIGHt direct sun and I was floored- there was a distinctively darker red on the #7 side. It was no questions asked, darker.

Moral of MY story? #7 may not make a huge and totally visisble difference on most clear-coated vehicles, but it *can* improve the looks. I think the true value of #7 is better enjoyed on single stage paints.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

If you finish the surface with an abrasive polish like #105, 83, 80, and get it down to where the wax can be applied, why is a glaze needed?

It's not, and Meguiar's always states that applying a pure polish, especially in the circumstance you laid out, is an optional step.

Meguiar's customer's are not the masses, they are not the Joe Consumer's of the world, our customer base is made up of serious car enthusiasts and this means people that are passionate about their car and willing to do even the smallest steps to maximize the finish on their car.

So for the scenario you laid out, you don't need to apply a pure polish, that is a non-abrasive polish especially if you've used M80 as it is very rich in polishing oils and is a cleaner/polish which means it's product that will remove the swirls left by the compounding step and polish out to a final finish in most cases. Thus after using M80 it's kind of hard to create a noticeable difference following up with a application of a pure polish.

Again, Meguiar's aways states that using a pure polish is an optional step. Any of the thousands of people that have been through our Saturday class will tell you that when we come to the section in the power point presentation on pure polishes, the first bullet point states that applying a pure polish is an optional step.

I understand that some glazes like #7 or deep crystal polish will fill in some scratches and some swirls for a while (week) then they return. This may be good for a car show in a pinch but why would you not just get all these swirls out with a abrasive polish first then there is nothing to hide?

Help me understand the need for glazes.

thanks

What a pure polish will do for a paint finish kind of depends upon what exactly it is you're working on. If you're working on a brand new car then a pure polish won't do much because the paint on a brand new car is supposed to look GREAT already... it is brand new correct?

But for older paints, a pure polish will restore clarity to a clear coat and bring out the full richness of color for a single stage paint.

These results could not have been achieved without using polishing oils. That is to merely compound and wax the paint as it was in it's "before" condition would have made the paint more red but it would not have maximized the depth and full richness of color.

Before - Yes the paint is actually turning from red to white in some places


After



The body shop industry?
Not sure if you know this, but from experience I've seen a lot of people get onto the Internet, discover discussion forums, do some reading and get even more confused by all the information and opinions posted all over the place.

One area of confusion is Newbies to detailing, and people that don't know much about what we refer to as "The Professional Industry", which is made up of people that apply fresh paint to cars both at the OEM level and in the Refinishing industry, (your local body shops), and also the Reconditioning Industry, (Detailers both fixed location and mobile), need different products than the Consumer Market.

That is there's a huge segment of people that are working on FRESH PAINT and there's not a single paint manufacture that recommends applying a wax or paint sealant onto fresh paint in the world. Not one.

So for anyone reading this that might not know due to the overwhelming amount of information on the Internet and the confusion that goes with it, the products danz_toda listed in the first part of his post, these ones...

If you finish the surface with an abrasive polish like #105, 83, 80,

are BODY SHOP SAFE products formulated for use in fresh paint environments, they are not part of a offering to the Consumer Market. Now consumers, or if you like enthusiasts can and do use these because they work great on cured paint, but please keep in mind which line these products are in and who they are created for.

Now follow me on this, 4 of our pure polishes out of the 5 we make for use on automotive paints are in the Professional Line, that is they are formulated for use on fresh paint and that's because that's what the industry uses on fresh paint to make it look good until the paint manufactures recommended waiting period is over and then a wax or paint sealant can be applied.

Often times after a car is painted, then sanded and buffed, or not sanded and buffed, before a customer picks up the car a hand applied glaze, (a pure polish), is applied to MAXIMIZE the gloss, clarity, depth and beauty of the paint. It makes the painter's work look good and it makes the customer happy when they see their new paint job.

So there's a whole different world out there where pure polishes are used that has nothing to do with the consumer market and this is just an example that we need to point out in this thread for all the hundreds, even thousands of people that will read this thread into the future that might not understand Meguiar's is a manufacture of a wide spectrum of product that go into very diverse markets, and this is often left out of the equation on other forums because the people posting about pure polishes don't know or don't understand everything about the professional side of 'our' industry.

Does that make sense?

I think the true value of #7 is better enjoyed on single stage paints.

There's definitely applications for a pure polish on clear coat paints but you're right, single stage paints will benefit the most from an application of a pure polish and the human eyes can more easily see these benefits.

Again, see the before and after pictures posted above as a stellar example of what a pure polish can do.

[daneZ_toda]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

So what Meguiars calls a pure polish doesn't really change the solid surface of the paint in any way. It just fills and moisturizes the paint to make it look wet for a while.


I had this experience about 10 years ago with my college car. It was a grey Nissan Sentra that had etched in water spots with remnants of wax left in it (liquid crystal). I got the #7 and gave that a try and it did a good job of turning the white pits darker then I put the liquid crystal over it. It looked great for about a week then the white pits reappeared and I'd have to do it all over again. I even tried the yellow wax in top and it didn't do much better.

I guess thats just the nature of the beast.

The main reason I'm asking is that I have a 07 Tacoma that has some swirls in it and I picked up some #9 swirl remover 2.0. I have a PC and was going to work them with this before moving to #80 or more aggressive. I want the paint be as swirlfree as I can get it in a reasonable amount of time. I wash with all the right stuff (two bucket with grit guard and a good MF drying towel).

Thanks for the explanation.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

So what Meguiar's calls a pure polish doesn't really change the solid surface of the paint in any way. It just fills and moisturizes the paint to make it look wet for a while.

Meguiar's pure polishes are not "protectants", that is they are not designed or supposed to last, that's the job of a wax or paint sealant, completely different animals. This is why I pointed out that our Professional Line includes a lot of different types of products that are key to working on fresh paint in body shops that often times confuses consumers/enthusiasts because the average person doesn't know much about the body shop/fresh paint industry all they know is car wash and car wax, so when you start introducing them to products that don't fit into these two categories, (car wash and car wax), it's easy to get confused.

I had this experience about 10 years ago with my college car. It was a grey Nissan Sentra that had etched in water spots with remnants of wax left in it (liquid crystal). I got the #7 and gave that a try and it did a good job of turning the white pits darker then I put the liquid crystal over it. It looked great for about a week then the white pits reappeared and I'd have to do it all over again. I even tried the yellow wax in top and it didn't do much better. I guess thats just the nature of the beast.

Was your friends car a single stage or a basecoat/clearcoat. Sounds like the paint was neglected long enough that it got to the point of no return and at this point no companies products are going to save it.

The main reason I'm asking is that I have a 07 Tacoma that has some swirls in it and I picked up some #9 swirl remover 2.0. I have a PC and was going to work them with this before moving to #80 or more aggressive. I want the paint be as swirl-free as I can get it in a reasonable amount of time. I wash with all the right stuff (two bucket with grit guard and a good MF drying towel).

Thanks for the explanation.

You can try the M09 first but usually it's too gentle to tackle most swirls in most clearcoats by itself, look at the picture on the label, it shows a guy using it with a rotary buffer.

Read this before you start, it might help you...

If you're moving up to machine polishing, be sure to read the below thread before starting...
Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
(These are all similar tools)

[Mikejl]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

Pure polishes such as Show Car Glaze (#7) and Deep Crystal System Polish are not always needed. If you feel that you have reached the "maximum potential" of the paint, that is as good as you can make it look, then a pure polish it not needed.

Pure polishes add a lot of oils to the paint, thus making the paint look deeper, darker and wetter.

Its really a personal preference.

Ryan

EDIT: Murr1525 got to it before me...

I purchased the Deep Crystal System Polish before I bought my G110. Can this polish be used with the G110?

Mike

[Andy M.]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

I purchased the Deep Crystal System Polish before I bought my G110. Can this polish be used with the G110?

Mike

You can certainly use the Deep Crystal System with the G110.

Andy

[Mikejl]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

You can certainly use the Deep Crystal System with the G110.

Andy

Good to know. I didn't want to buy some M7 while I had a brand new bottle of DC.

Thanks,
Mike

[daneZ_toda]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

Mike,

thanks for the explanation of the consumer vs bodyshop product difference. I hadn't considered that angle on it.

I understand that pure polishes are not protectants and they last only as long as the wax layer in top of them hold off the elements. In my case with the liquid crystal wax (not impressed) was about a week.

#26 didn't help much with extending the time though...

The Sentra was a base coat/clear coat paint job. In baton Rough there is a lot of fallout from the plants and some of that ate into the paint in my roof and trunk. I actually got after them with 1500 grit sand paper and polished that out (massive passion) with Meguiars cleaner wax and a terry pad. Didn't think much of it back them but now I'm surprised I got the finish back that clean. It really was a lot of work though. This was after I got tired of the #7 followed by #26 routhe that looked great for about a week then the water spots returned.


I thought the guy with the rotary buffer in the picture on the bottle was just a stock picture. DACP also has him with a rotary when it is especially designed for a DA (hence the name).

I now have a DA and #9 and a tube of scratchX. I'll give these a try and see what they can do. Toyota paint is reportedly very soft. Soft to the point that they don sell them without mud flaps or running boards for fear that the paint will chip off with rocks slung from the front tires.

The swirls on the tacoma (bc/cc indigo ink blue (dark)) are not too bad so like you preach I'd like to start with the most gentile product first and move up.

thanks

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What is the purpose of a glazed and a nonabrasive "true polish"?

Mike,


I thought the guy with the rotary buffer in the picture on the bottle was just a stock picture. DACP also has him with a rotary when it is especially designed for a DA (hence the name).

Bunch of folks on Utopia made this wrong assumption thus this article to clear up any confusion.

The Term "Dual Action" as it relates to M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish

The above article can be found here, Hot Topics as well as lots more hot topics...