Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

[miahjohn]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

i agree ^ the oils and other stuff in the polish must be put in there for a reason by megs chemist so i say leave it on the paint.

[akimel]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

Of course, not everyone who uses Meguiar's polishes then finish their work with a Meguiars' wax. So the question becomes, Are there some waxes or sealants that need a squeaky clean surface in order to bond to it? I gather that some synthetic sealants, because of their cross-linking polymers, do not bond well, or as well, when applied to a surface where polishing oils are present. It would be nice to know which sealants require a squeaky clean surface.

But do carnauba waxes have this problem? Given that thousands of people over many decades have been applying various kinds of carnauba waxes to cars that have been polished and glazed with Meguiar's products, I doubt that bonding is an issue. But I do not have any direct experience or data to support my opinion.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

It does appear that a majority of folks over at AutoGeek and Autopia apply Prep-Sol or an IPA solution before applying their LSP. They believe that the durability and longevity of the LSP, especially if it is a synthetic sealant, requires as squeaky clean a surface as possible. See, e.g., this thread:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-forum/15962-thoughts-using-paint-cleaner-cleanser-after-polish.html

Does it really matter?

Al

The reason for the IPA wipe-down according to those individuals is NOT to clean the surface to maximize adhesion of LSPs, but it is intended to remove "bad" polishing oils (per their viewpoint) that "hide" the true condition of the paint ("fillers" as they often call them).

It's usually used only in the test spots to make sure the process is giving "true" results and correction, but is not necessary for the entire vehicle in most cases.

[akimel]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

The reason for the IPA wipe-down according to those individuals is NOT to clean the surface to maximize adhesion of LSPs, but it is intended to remove "bad" polishing oils (per their viewpoint) that "hide" the true condition of the paint ("fillers" as they often call them).

Actually, Mark, if you read through the thread I cited, I think you will discover that many of those who now do IPA or PrepSol wipedowns are also concerned that dirt and polishing oils will interfere with the effective bonding of the LSP. In fact, it has pretty much become a truism on some detailing forums that polishing oils disrupt the cross-linking bonding of synthetic polymer sealants. It is my impression that this belief is now being extended, though not without controversy and dispute, to all LSPs, at least in the sense that a squeaky clean surface is intimated to be an optimal bonding condition even for carnauba waxes.

Cheers,
Al

[Jokeman]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

I do it before I do my winter sealant on my truck. I use opti-seal since I have had great luck with its longevity during our nasty winters. Anything that can withstand living on the ocean, next to logan airport(jet fuel) and driving 200 miles north every weekend on heavily salted roads and still bead after the winter is a winner in my book.

[Heatgain]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

I've read on other forums about doing this. But usually, my product just before my LSP is #80 and it doesn't make sense to me to remove those oils that are put into #80 to restore shine.

[Nappers]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

After reading a while and figuring out what IPA was....LOL

I just keep on trucking from wash to wax (I do the interior after drying to make sure it's dry)

Aaron

[chessplayer]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

seems like then you would have to start over again

[TLMitchell]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

.....next to logan airport(jet fuel)....

Speaking of jet fuel, I work at an airport and the parking lot is near a turboprop engine test stand. When the wind's light and the parking lot is downwind the cars get coated with exhaust vapor. You want to remove wax, tar and just about anything else from your finish, use kerosene. And jet fuel is nothing but highly refined kerosene.

For a while I couldn't figure out why my usually long-lasting wax wasn't lasting long at all sometimes. Once I started parking with the building between the test stand and the car that situation improved considerably. I don't know how one might avoid that if you were parking frequently near a large airport with jet fuel vapors all over the place.

TL

[xantonin]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

I polish then do the LSP.

In my experience it strengthens the LSP because the surface is even more smooth and everything just slides on it.

[xantonin]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

Oh ****, I brought back an old post, sort of. I just saw that it was bumped because someone voted in it so I replied, didn't read the dates lol

[Ivan Rajic]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

seems like then you would have to start over again

Why would you have to start over? Polishing removes clearcoat, and the removal of clearcoat 'fixes' scratches... removing any polishing oils and lubricants left on the surface will not change what you've done to the paint cutting wise...

I polish then do the LSP.

In my experience it strengthens the LSP because the surface is even more smooth and everything just slides on it.

It's smooth because of the polish left over, which is exactly why people use IPA wipe downs... to make sure they're applying the LSP to the surface of the paint and not mixing it with anything else.

If I'm using M80 then NXT 2.0, 26, 21 then I'll just do a quick QD wipe down with M34 to ensure no dust is left over before the LSP... if using a polish and LSP from two different manufacturers though, always IPA wipe down.

As Akimel said, this isn't the same thing as doing the IPA wipe down to ensure the paint as actually in the state in which it appears to be...

[TH0001]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

I'm with Ivan...

If the actual paint correction is true, then wiping the surface with alcohol isn't going to make much of a difference either ways. Yes you could remove some polishing oils or glazes that deepen the look of paint, but I have NEVER noticed a change in the appearance of the paint IF the paint correction was spot on.

If my goal is to get a car 100% perfect with true paint correct, absolutely I am going to wipe it down, repeatley, after every step. I need to see exactly what I am working with at all time so I can plot the course to perfection.

By the same token if it is a 1 step polish, where the goal is to make the car look great in the least amount of steps possible, the I won't do a wipe down, since that can add more steps. I really didn't did get good at polishing until I started doing wipedowns.

As far as LSP bonding, I think it depends on the LSP...

[RaskyR1]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

A lot of my reason for starting this thread was because of this post I found a long while back.

The main part of the post that caught my attention was this....

Quote:

A wax, (natural or synthetic), is a substance that when applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own. Thus, it is necessary to add specialized miscible oils to allow the waxy material to spread and adhere evenly to the surface. These oils along with polymers are responsible for improving the functionality of the wax protection, appearance, adherence and the overall application. This means the addition of any Meguiar's polishes prior to the wax application will not only enhance the paint finish, but also aid in the appearance, adherence and overall lasting ability of the wax which is applied over the top of it.

So by using IPA or similar to wipe down the paint after polishing, would go against the advice of Meguiars Chemists....no?

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37356&postcount=6

[Ivan Rajic]

Re: Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?

A lot of my reason for starting this thread was because of this post I found a long while back.

The main part of the post that caught my attention was this....

Quote:

A wax, (natural or synthetic), is a substance that when applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own. Thus, it is necessary to add specialized miscible oils to allow the waxy material to spread and adhere evenly to the surface. These oils along with polymers are responsible for improving the functionality of the wax protection, appearance, adherence and the overall application. This means the addition of any Meguiar's polishes prior to the wax application will not only enhance the paint finish, but also aid in the appearance, adherence and overall lasting ability of the wax which is applied over the top of it.

So by using IPA or similar to wipe down the paint after polishing, would go against the advice of Meguiars Chemists....no?


http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sho...56&postcount=6

I think that's up for discussion... it's not like wax is pure carnauba wax applied to the finish... also, I have yet to have a bonding problem on any paint after an IPA wipedown, and so do many others...

I guess if I'm to believe the above statement, I want to know why it won't adhere on its own, and how do the oils help... do they mix with the wax to bond to the surface, do they bond to the surface and wax bonds to the oils?...