Newbie with a rotary – questions

[AZStang]

Hello. I’ve been a lurker here for a long time, but I believe this is my first post. I have a couple questions about which products and pads I should use with a rotary. First off though, I’m not looking to do this for a living, but rather want to improve the finish of my own vehicles. I’ve actually been wanting to get started with this for a couple years now and had planned all along to start out with M80 and M83. Then Meguiar’s had to go and confuse me with their new products last year. So, after reading all the reviews here, I decided to start with D151.

To date, I’ve really only attempted to correct one vehicle and that is my wife’s dark red 2000 Explorer. I used D151 on a Meguiar's W8006 pad with the G100. While I am by no means an expert with the G100 I have watched the “How to Use the PC” DVD by Mike and Richard several times. So, I’m fairly confident in my technique. I was able to improve the finish quite a bit with this process, but there was still some cob webbing and swirls when I pulled it out into the sun as well as some RDS. It also took quite a few passes and I only did the hood so, I’m assuming that the Explorer has some fairly hard paint.

Based on this, I think I’m at the limit of what the DA can do and need a more powerful tool. Recently, I came across a used Dewalt DW849 for a great price. I’ve been reading everything I can find on how to use the rotary. I have a hood, fender, and plastic/rubber bumper cover from a body shop that I plan to practice on. I’m almost ready to go. Now the questions.

1. I want to stay with the 6.5” pads I already have so which rotary backing plate should I get? I know the W64 6.5” backing plate will work but will the W66 Solo or W65 8” also work with the 6.5” pads? I’m leaning towards the W66, but am not sure.

2. I do not currently have any cutting pads. Should I get some? Wool or foam or both? Which is more aggressive - wool or foam? I saw a post by Tim Lingor where he showed the aggressiveness of the wool pads as follows:

Most aggressive to least:
W5000 Double Sided
So1o Heavy Cut Wool (Red)
W4000
So1o Light Cut Wool (Yellow)

I’m leaning towards the W4000 wool pad and maybe a W7006 foam pad.

3. Besides the Explorer, I also own a Teal Green 1996 F350 and a silver 1995 Mustang. All are daily drivers with “normal” paint defects. What products, besides the D151, should I get to start with? It almost seems like M105 and M205 are the new M80 and M83. How similar are D151 and M205? Meaning could I finish M105 with D151? I think given the way the Explorer responded to the D151 on the DA my next step would be to put the same W8006 pad on the rotary and continue with the D151. Should I get some M105?

4. When will the “How to use the Rotary” DVD be coming out?

Thanks for all your help,
Shawn

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

Hi Shawn,

Since this is your first post,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

Have you watched these yet?

5 Video segments on wet-sanding and using a rotary buffer

[AZStang]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

Have you watched these yet?

5 Video segments on wet-sanding and using a rotary buffer

Thanks for the welcome Mike. I've watched those videos a couple times. When will your next video be out?

Shawn

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

So, after reading all the reviews here, I decided to start with D151.

Recently, I came across a used Dewalt DW849 for a great price. I’ve been reading everything I can find on how to use the rotary. I have a hood, fender, and plastic/rubber bumper cover from a body shop that I plan to practice on. I’m almost ready to go.

As for using a rotary and only a cleaner/wax as a system, check out the reply to this thread actually posted today.

Applying Tech Wax 2.0 or M21 with a rotary buffer?

Now the questions.

1. I want to stay with the 6.5” pads I already have so which rotary backing plate should I get? I know the W64 6.5” backing plate will work but will the W66 Solo or W65 8” also work with the 6.5” pads? I’m leaning towards the W66 but am not sure.

If you want to use our W-7006, W-8006 and W-9006 foam pads then get the W64 Rotary Backing Plate as it provides some safety room between the edge of the foam pad and the edge of the backing plate. If you use too large of a backing plate you risk running the backing plate into the paint or a component and with a rotary buffer it doesn't take long to do some damage.

2. I do not currently have any cutting pads. Should I get some? Wool or foam or both? Which is more aggressive - wool or foam? I saw a post by Tim Lingor where he showed the aggressiveness of the wool pads as follows:

Most aggressive to least:
W5000 Double Sided
So1o Heavy Cut Wool (Red)
W4000
So1o Light Cut Wool (Yellow)

That sounds about right, can you post the link to this thread?

I’m leaning towards the W4000 wool pad and maybe a W7006 foam pad.

Both these are great cutting pads and good to learn heavy cutting with, you'll want to get a Spur for the wool pad to clean it and a nylon brush for the foam pad to clean it.

3. Besides the Explorer, I also own a Teal Green 1996 F350 and a silver 1995 Mustang. All are daily drivers with “normal” paint defects. What products, besides the D151, should I get to start with?

See comments about applying wax with a rotary buffer in this thread,

Applying Tech Wax 2.0 or M21 with a rotary buffer?

It almost seems like M105 and M205 are the new M80 and M83. How similar are D151 and M205? Meaning could I finish M105 with D151?

D151 is a cleaner/wax and M205 is a cleaner/polish. D151 will leave behind wax protection, M205 is water soluble, that also means it leave behind no wax protection. D151 is a one-step cleaner/wax for production detailing and M205 is part of a multi-step system for use in body shops and detailers doing dedicated cleaning, polishing and waxing step.

I think given the way the Explorer responded to the D151 on the DA my next step would be to put the same W8006 pad on the rotary and continue with the D151.

You can try this combo but if you do, only do a section of a panel like the hood and then after wiping the dried wax residue off the paint, position the Explorer, (or anything you ever buff out), in a way to put the sun down on the finish and inspect for swirls. Make sure you're leaving a swirl free finish or at least a finish that meets your expectations.

Another option would be to use the rotary with a product like M105 or M205 to remove the majority of the defects then come back with the DA Polisher and either re-polish using M205 or D151, check first to make sure whichever chemical you're using with the DA is removing any swirls left by the first rotary buffer step and if not then adjust your process. (Post back here).

In most cases, for a quality detail job that removes a majority of defects out of the paint you would,

Compound with M105 and a wool or foam cutting pad
Re-polish using either a rotary or a DA with a polishing pad with M205 to remove any swirls from the compounding step to insure any swirls are removed and to maximize the clarity and gloss of the paint

At this step you want to try to use a DA to get aways from the direct drive rotating action of the rotary buffer and switch to the oscillating action of the DA Polisher so your remove swirls and don't leave any.

After that you would apply wax and if you did dedicated cleaning steps you wouldn't use a cleaner/wax as your LSP you would use a finishing wax like NXT, M21, Gold Class, M26 etc.

Should I get some M105?

Everyone should get some M105 for both machine and hand use.

4. When will the “How to use the Rotary” DVD be coming out?

Thanks for all your help,
Shawn

At this time there are no rotary how-to DVDs on the schedule to be released.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

That sounds about right, can you post the link to this thread?

2. I do not currently have any cutting pads. Should I get some? Wool or foam or both? Which is more aggressive - wool or foam? I saw a post by Tim Lingor where he showed the aggressiveness of the wool pads as follows:

Most aggressive to least:
W5000 Double Sided
So1o Heavy Cut Wool (Red)
W4000
So1o Light Cut Wool (Yellow)


Shawn

Here is the thread where I posted that info...

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21694&page=6&highlight=w-5000

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

Here is the thread where I posted that info...

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21694&page=6&highlight=w-5000

Tim

Thanks Tim,

Here's a picture to also show our cutting pads from least to most aggressive...

[AZStang]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

Thank you for all the feedback and great information Mike.

I understand the actual differences between D151 and M205. I was mainly wondering if D151 would remove any marring and defects left by M105 instead of having to use M205 and then a LSP. It looks like you answered yes. I do have NXT 2.0 for routine waxing without correction and as my LSP if end up getting the M205.

I also have a bottle of Meguiar’s Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner. I know this has not been made for a while, but I’m wondering how aggressive it is.

Thanks again,
Shawn

[AZStang]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

I came up with another question. Will the W64 6.5" backing plate work okay with the W4000 8" wool pad?

Thanks,
Shawn

[AZStang]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

I came up with another question. Will the W64 6.5" backing plate work okay with the W4000 8" wool pad?

Thanks,
Shawn

Anyone?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

I came up with another question. Will the W64 6.5" backing plate work okay with the W4000 8" wool pad?

Thanks,
Shawn

Define, work okay


The small W64 Backing Plate will attach to the W-4000 Wool Pad but it's too small for the amount of surface area it will be forced to support. You really want to match the right size backing plate to the pad you're using.

There's actually research and testing that goes on behind the scenes into the science of backing plates and one thing for sure about Meguiar's is that they do their research first before launching a product or a system.

Backing plates and pads are systems and the right backing plate for the W-4000 Wool Cutting Bad is the W65 Backing Plate.

[AZStang]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

Thanks Mike. I don't suppose anyone makes a 6.5" wool pad?

Shawn

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

Thanks Mike. I don't suppose anyone makes a 6.5" wool pad?

Shawn

We used to make a 6' wool cutting pad and myself and a lot of pro detailers actually really liked this pad but it was discontinued because it just wasn't a big seller as the 8" size buffing pad is the standard in the professional side of the industry.

Maybe just start out with the W64 backing plate and our 6" foam pad and as time and budget allows add some more backing plates and buffing pads to your arsenal.

For most detail work our W-7006, W-8006 and W-9006 foam pads will tackle just about everything that comes your way as far as restoring neglected paint. If you want to get into wet-sanding then for sure you're going to want to get into wool pads and in this case you can go with single sided wool pads that require a backing plate or maybe just get our W-5000 Double Sided Wool Cutting pad and the adapter that you need to attach it to a rotary buffer and then you won't need an 8" backing plate plus you'll have two sides to buff with which will last you quite a while depending upon how many cars you're buffing out day to day or year to year.

W5000 Dual Sided Wool Pad with Adapter to attach to the Rotary Buffer








The above W-5000 wool cutting pad is actually a great way to go if you plan on doing some major correction work with M105

[AZStang]

Re: Newbie with a rotary – questions

Thanks again Mike. I'll take your advice and stick with the foam pads for the paint.

However, I want to polish my uncoated aluminum wheels so I'll need a wool pad for that. My Dewalt came with some sort of rubber backing plate. Maybe I can get a cheap wool pad for that since I'm sure it will be trashed after doing the wheels anyway.

Shawn