PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! - The Limits of the Dual Action Polisher

[NVCobra]

PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! (The Limits of Dual Action Polisher)


Hello, what should i try if 83 isnt getting the job done? 84 an 85 are rotary only so what could i try next for the PC? Ive got water and bird etching with some pitting on a black car that 83 isnt getting at all,what can i try next? thx

[travisdecpn]

How many passes have you made with 83, and what pad are you using?

[Chris Nemlich]

Maybe you could try some ScratchX by hand on the real tough spots? It might take a few applications.

Chris

[Mike Phillips]

Hi NVCobra,

I would second what williams22 suggested, try removing the defect first by hand using ScratchX. By approaching the defect by hand you can apply concentrated pressure to a small area and really work the area. If you are successful at removing some/most/all of the defect by hand, you can then re-polish the area with the G-100 dual action polisher to even out the area.

The next level of aggressiveness would be the rotary buffer and a cleaner/polish or the rotary buffer with a diminishing abrasive compound.

It's important to remember that the G-100 dual action polisher is limited in what it can do. More and more people are pushing the envelope and trying to remove defects with this tool that would be better addressed with the rotary buffer.

Today at our G35Driver.com clinic, after discussing the proper technique for using ScratchX to remove a scratch, one of the club members went after a scratch in his finish using 5 applications of ScratchX and successfully removed it.

Another club member tried to remove a some deep scuff marks in his bumper and while he could not completely remove it, he did improve it to the point that it was a lot less noticeable.

You never know what you can do until you try.

Mike

[NVCobra]

Im using the orange Sonus cutting pad @ speed 6 slow mutliple passes. I can see alittle progress after about 6 or 7 aplications but thats just in a 1x2 area. I would use the ScratchX on an isolated spot but most of the hood,trunk and top of the car are hit with alot of etching an pitting. Isnt there anything more agressive to use with the PC?

[tguil]

NV Cobra,

Although Meguiar's doesn't recommend it -- Try Meguiar's burgandy pad with the pc at 5 or 6 and apply a little more pressure. Make several passes. Follow up with #83 and a polishing pad. Then #82 with a polishing pad.

I used this technique and it worked on some pretty tough stuff.

Tom

[manueljlg]

I´m having the same problem. For some reason #83 with a 8006 pad at speed 6 is not removing some cob-Web effect I have on my silver truck, but it really cleaned up a red beater car I have.
I have read on other forums about people using heavy cut cleaner with a PC and a 7006 pad with good results, but I wouldn´t try it.
The way I see it I have 2 choices: to live with the cob-webs or to buy a rotary buffer.

[Mike Phillips]

What you can or cannot do with a dual action polisher will always come down to how hard the paint is.

Last week a forum member brought his clear coated, 1991 Ford Lightening Truck by my house for me to look at. He tried the #83W-8006/PC combo and it had no effect.

I tried that combo and it had no effect. (The truck has horrendous cobweb scratches throughout the entire finish).

So I whipped out the rotary and followed Meguiar's philosophy,

Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

First I tried M-83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish with a W-8006 foam polishing pad on a Makita rotary buffer at around 1800 rpms.



This had absolutely no effect on the finish. Next, I substituted M-84 Compound Power Cleaner, and switched to a W-7006 foam cutting pad with the Makita rotary buffer at the same rpm as the previous test.



I buffed a small area of the front of the hood, and the passenger's side front top fender and was able to remove the cobweb effect and restore a smooth glossy finish.

Both of us were amazed by how hard the paint was. I suggested he contact Joe at Superior Shine, or Brian at Auto Express and see if either of these guys would be interested in detailing his truck because it was going to take an experienced Professional with years behind the rotary to successfully remove the cobweb-effect.

His other option would be to repaint the truck.

It's important to note that the G-100/Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher is limited in what it can do. It's not the end-all, be-all answer to everything.

In the example above, the rotary buffer with a foam cutting pad, an aggressive cutting compound and time, heat and pressure took a long time to remove the scratches in to small areas...

The dual action polisher didn't make a dent in them... I took before and after pictures, I'll try to dig them up and post them.

What you can or cannot do with a dual action polisher will always come down to how hard the paint is

Mike

[manueljlg]

Thanks for your answer Mike. I´m not an experienced detailer, but I completely agree with your post. After receiving in the mail some DACP, I first tried it on a red Geo Tracker I use as a beater. It removed 90% of minor paint defects, I then followed with #82 with a polishing pad at speed 4 and finished off with NXT x 2. The results were outstanding for a 9 year old paint.
A couple of weeks later I try the same thing on my Ram, and it took me 3 passes on horizontal surfaces at speed 6 to improve just a little my cob-webs. I was disappointed, but I realized that I will need a rotary buffer to have a flawless finish.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a pictures of Tim's, (aka forum member svt150tim), new-to-him Ford Lightning with a factory clear coat finish over white basecoat.




Here's what the finish looks like all over the the entire truck,

Horrendous Swirls


Here are the results after 10 minutes of compounding using #84 Compound Power Cleaner with a W-7006 foam cutting pad on about 1800 rpm.



We tried to remove the cobweb-effect using the G-100 with a W-8006 polishing pad and some #83 DACP but it had no visible effect. The clear coat finish on this truck is as hard as glass, the only way to remove the swirls in the finish is to machine compound with a rotary buffer.

The point is, there is only so much a dual action polisher like the Meguiar's G-100 can do, once you reach it's limit, and it's not removing the defect, then it's time to substitute a rotary buffer or if you don't own a rotary buffer, and/or the skills to operate one correctly then you will need to take your car to a professional who is trained and experienced with the proper use of the rotary buffer.

Mike

[svt150tim]

A big thanks Mike for taking a look & working on the truck.

I have Joe from Superior Shine scheduled to work his magic on November 1st, I will find this thread and update with pics the results.

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by svt150tim
I have Joe from Superior Shine scheduled to work his magic on November 1st, I will find this thread and update with pics the results.

Tim

If anyone can save this finish from the paint booth... it's Joe!


Looking mean on the green!



Mike

[HotRodGuy]

is that an intercooler I see on the red one? if so

[svt150tim]

yep - intercooled procharger.

Only a week & a half until Joe starts rubbin on the paint.

[svt150tim]

First off i want to thank Joe for going way out of his way to work on my truck and also a big thank you to Mike & Lynn for looking & working on this truck at their home...and placing Joe and I together.

I'm extremely happy with what Joe was able to do with paint, I'll let Joe tell you what he found and what it took to get where it is.

Mike has posted on the first page of this thread a few pics showing how bad the paint was when I bought this truck.

My pic taking ***** --- so believe me, this truck looks really awesome in the sun --- a true night and day difference.

A few before and during pics --- yesterday.