Newbie needs help selecting products to restore original paint

[Thornton]

Newbie needs help selecting products to restore original paint?


I am a Newbie and wanted to know what product(s) or techniques I should use to bring the original paint on my car back to life. My car is a 1965 Right Hand Drive Australian VW 1500. It still has the original paint and interior. The paint is a single stage paint lacquer or enamel. There is some burn through marks from years of the sun beaming down on the roof but it’s still a very presentable car.

In the Volkswagen world, the car is only original once so it's vitally important to me to keep the original paint. Repainting this car is not an option so it has to be done right the first time. I want to do the best I can to restore and preserve the original paint.

I don't have a rotary buffer and frankly, they scare me. I do have an Orbital Buffer.

The paint has scratches and some light sanding marks which look they from #2000 grit sanding paper, so there has been some wet-sanding done in some spots. There are some areas where it looks like the paint has hard water stains all over it, these spots do come off but it takes a ton of effort.

I am removing all the trim and masking off the high points and the rubber seals. My thoughts were to try the M105 Ultra Cut Compound, good idea or something else? Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated

Here are some pictures of the car. It’s actually pretty oxidized and needs a lot of attention so don't let the pictures fool you.

Before

[Thornton]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Anyone have any insight?

how about you mike Phillips, seems you are a wealth of knowledge

[akimel]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

I believe Mike is unavailable today, so hang in there and he'll get to you tomorrow.

You say you have an orbital polisher. What kind of orbital polisher do you have? Is it a dual-action polisher? If you aren't sure, does it look like any of the polishers pictured here: Machine Photos - DA Polishers - Rotary Buffers - Traditional Orbital Buffers.

Would it be fair to say that you would prefer to work by hand? If yes, you might consider using the new Ultimate Compound followed by SwirlX.

[Thornton]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

I believe Mike is unavailable today, so hang in there and he'll get to you tomorrow.

You say you have an orbital polisher. What kind of orbital polisher do you have? Is it a dual-action polisher? If you aren't sure, does it look like any of the polishers pictured here: Machine Photos - DA Polishers - Rotary Buffers - Traditional Orbital Buffers.

Would it be fair to say that you would prefer to work by hand? If yes, you might consider using the new Ultimate Compound followed by SwirlX.

Thank for the reply

it looks like this but its a craftsman



I have tried This by hand and it doesnt seem to work.

http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/product_detail.asp?T1=MEG+A1214

thats why i figured i should use the oribitor, it makes a bit better but not what i am looking for. i am just nervous to use the high speed one because i dont want to burn thru the paint.

[akimel]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Thornton, your orbital is only good for the application and removal of waxes. It will be of no help to you for the removal of swirls, oxidation, and scratches by the application of an abrasive polish. You need to invest in a dual-action polisher.

The dual-action polisher is very safe for newbs like you and me because it oscillates in such a way as to make it impossible to burn through the paint, and if you press down too hard, it simply ceases to rotate. This safety mechanism distinguishes the dual-action polisher from the rotary polisher. See Mike Phillip's article Rotary Buffers versus Random Orbital Polishers.

[Megafast13]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

I suggest getting Ultimate Compound and SwirlX to use on the paint.

Or, if you have the money invest in a G110 DA Polisher. It would work a lot better than your orbital buffer

[Nappers]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

I have not tried M105 with exception to using it on metal trim and by hand to remove scratches.

Seen as your paint is single stage, M80 is a great product to use on it with it's rich oils along with paint correction.

I agree with others, the orbital is not a whole lot good but for spreading waxes, they just don't have the power for correction. Doesn't say you can't try but the bonnets are limited. Best thing is to do a test spot. I have one and it's now retired as I had no good luck with it.

A dual action such as the G100/Porter Cable 7424/7336 or the new G110 is a great tool and can be found easily on Ebay or here at Meguiarsdirect.com or ADS sells packages for less than 200 bucks with pads.

I use the G100 (same as Porter Cable 7424/7336) and it works great once I learned how to use it better.

The best advise is to start with the least aggressive product and work your way up or down on your test spot.

I have not tried the new Ultimate Compound or SwirlX yet, so I can't comment on those, but from I've seen on the last write up at MOL Garage, Ultimate Compound works great.

My boy has a '67 Dodge D100 with single stage paint and after a good scrubbing and some G100 action, the paint is coming around. It was severely oxidized to boot.

Others will chime in so hang tight as MOL brass had the day off due to working on Saturday, I guess we can let them have a day off during the week too.....

And to MOL, I grew up in Oregon, Douglas County (Go Glendale High Pirates!)

Would like to move back someday

[Thornton]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Thanks for the welcome on MOL and thanks for the responses.

Anyone else have any tips? going to purchase products soon and want to get the right stuff off the start.

thanks

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Hi Thorton,

Nice all original VW you have there. Whereabouts in Oregon are you?

As for restoring the paint while preserving it as much as possible that's a fine line to walk as removing defects means removing paint and by the picture of the roof there's already a paint thinning issue.

Here's where you want to follow this philosophy,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

In this case, the job done part is take the paint to it's maximum potential but this likely won't be a 100% defect-free finish due to the thin paint.

The safest approach would be to use Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner as it is a very light or gentle paint cleaner.

Two summers ago I had the good fortune to hand-rub out the antique paint on a 1948 Bentley. The paint was too thin to use machine safely as there were already place you could see the primer, (white), under the dark blue paint. For this project I used the Deep Crystal System and the Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner as my cleaning product.

Hang on...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Hate to abuse this project done a couple of summers ago but it's a great example of what our Over the Counter Consumer Line of products are capable of and $30.00 worth of OTC products ended up with a check for $800.00 for the job, not bad for a day's work with OTC products.

Did this 1948 Bentley two summers ago, it has an older re-paint using single-stage lacquer paint that's thin in a number of places. For this reason and because it has a lot of raised or hard body lines, (lots of older cars are like this while the body lines on many new cars look more like ice cream that has begun to melt, that is everything is smoothed over), every step was performed by hand.



Before









We snapped a couple shots of the trunk while the sun was at the right angle to capture a before and after shot of the paint condition.








Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueLibby04 How did you get the swirls out of that paint Mike?

By hand using Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner followed by the Deep Crystal System and topped with M16. I have a thread on the process that I'll try to put back up after I finish adding all the photos.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

If you look carefully at the applicator pads used, they are Cotton Terry Cloth Applicator Pads. The nap, which is little loops of cotton fiber, act like a form of gentle abrasive in and of themselves and also work to give the diminishing abrasives and the chemical cleaners more bite as you work them over the paint.

For less aggressive cleaning action use foam or microfiber applicator pads instead.

As you work around the car, pay close attention to the paint surface as you move your hand and only apply and work the Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner long enough to restore a clear, glossy surface and then move on. You're going to need to activly focus on the task at hand to make sure you don't find a thin spot in the paint because if you do and you're not paying attention you'll remove enough paint to expose the primer below. So this is why you need to watch the surface of the paint after each pass of your hand because when working on thin paint it doesn't take long to go from paint to primer and once you go to primer there's no way to undo the damage except for repainting the car or the area and you've already stated your goal is to restore the paint, not repaint the car.


You can find the Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner at any auto parts store there in Oregon and a real easy and inexpensive test to do would be to go get a bottle, and apply to a small section we call a Test Spot and after applying, working over the paint and then wiping the residue off, inspect the results and see if it's meeting your expectations and if it is, take a picture and show us on the forum the difference between the before and after from just using the paint cleaner.

Applying a pure polish and then a wax will then take these results to an even higher level.

So the first thing you want to do is see if the most gentle approach will work, so pick up a bottle of Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner and a couple packs of applicator pads. In Oregon, last time I was at GI Joe's or Knecht's, both stores had "Detailer's Choice" brand cotton terry cloth applicator pads, these work pretty well.

Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Doing a TEST-SPOT

Before going over the entire car, see if you can make just one small section look good, that is apply the product you're planning on using over the entire car to just one small section about a foot squared or so. Work it in and then wipe it off, then apply the polish, work it in but not as much as the compound because now you're not trying to remove paint, just spread the product out, then immediately wipe it off, then apply the wax and let it fully dry and then wipe it off.

Now inspect our results. Make sure you can make one small section look GREAT before going over then entire car. If you can't make one small section look GREAT you won't be able to make the entire car look GREAT.

Make sense?

It should look like this,




And if you're having any problems, the post back here after the test section and we'll help you tweak your technique to insure you get it right.

[Thornton]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Thanks Mike for the response.
I live in portland and cant find most these products in any store.

I currently have this

http://meguiarsdirect.com/detail/MEG+A1214

Doesnt seem to do much. is the cleaner you posted above a better product for what i am trying to achieve?

There is a area on the hood that has 1500 or finer sand scratches on it the previous owner tried wetsanding. I really want those marks to be gone. He did half the hood so one side has it the other doesnt.

what do you suggest for that area?

I appreciate your response greatly.

Thornton

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Good talking to you on the phone, here's a few of the links we talked about,

How to locate Meguiar's Professional and Detailer products in your hometown

Tips for how to correctly take pictures to document an Extreme Makeover

I live in Portland and cant find most these products in any store.

I currently have this

http://meguiarsdirect.com/detail/MEG+A1214

Doesn't seem to do much. is the cleaner you posted above a better product for what i am trying to achieve?

That's a light cleaner/wax and when working on single stage paints, liquid products tend to work better as the liquid components, like the cleaners and polishing oils can penetrate into the paint and help you to better better results as you work the product over the paint.

The Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner isn't too much more aggressive than the A1214 Paste Cleaner/Wax but because it's a dedicated paint cleaner and a liquid you'll be changing the dynamics of the cleaning action and you should see better results while keeping non-aggressive to the paint.

There is a area on the hood that has 1500 or finer sand scratches on it the previous owner tried wet-sanding. I really want those marks to be gone. He did half the hood so one side has it the other doesn't.

what do you suggest for that area?

As for the sanding marks, as we discussed on the phone, you're going to want to find some Ultimate Compound and apply this by hand because you can exert more pressure using your four fingers pushing against an applicator pad than you can using a Traditional Orbital Buffer or even a DA Polisher.

Here are some threads to read up on that discuss the topic of exerting pressure by hand,

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/tags.php?tag=exert

Point being you can exert more/enough pressure by working by hand to remove enough paint to remove the sanding marks and level the surface out.


After the cleaning step, both the compounding step with UC and the light cleaning for the rest of the paint with Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner, next you want to polish with the M07 Show Car Glaze and follow this with a coat of NXT Tech Wax.

Just be sure to test first before going over the entire car. If you find the Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner to not be aggressive enough for the paint besides the areas that were sanded, then you can use the Ultimate Compound over the rest of the paint just use a gentle touch and only make enough passes over the area being worked to restore gloss then move on.

Here's one more article that might help...

Which products need to dry before removing?

[Thornton]

Re: Newbie needs help selecting product

Thanks Mike it was good talking to you too

I will get those products and give it a whirl this weekend, I will be sure to post picture!

thanks
thornton