Snake Oil???

[Andrew C.]

Re: Snake Oil???

I generally wouldn't trust a delearship to handle my detailing, even a Lexus dealer.

Good call on not trusting the Lexus dealer. My dad has a lexus and the local delearship provides free car washes for any lexus customer. I cannot even begin to explain how swirled they have made his car from poor washing technique.

[termigator69]

Re: Snake Oil???

That's too bad. My dealership promised me they wouldn't screw up the finish on my car and they've lived up to their promise. The finish has been perfect after they washed it everytime I've been there and I've had the car for over a year. I guess I got lucky.

[3Fitty]

Re: Snake Oil???

Like everything, there are good dealers and bad ones. Unfortunately the three Lexus dealers I dealt with in NJ all stunk.

The one I deal with in Canada is much better, but I still wouldn't trust them to wash it.

Although, the garage I park in (daily) offers a hand wash (from a detailing company) with two buckets, grit guards and lambswool wash mits) for $20!!!! I don't know which soap they use, but they seem like they are pretty competent.

[Bert31]

Re: Snake Oil???

Although, the garage I park in (daily) offers a hand wash (from a detailing company) with two buckets, grit guards and lambswool wash mits) for $20!!!! I don't know which soap they use, but they seem like they are pretty competent.

If I see them dumping their buckets, refilling with fresh water and using clean mitts for each car, I may feel somewhat safe letting the wash my car if it weren't for the fact that I actually enjoy caring for my car and prefer to wash it myself.

[fastsleeper]

Re: Snake Oil???

Thanks again to all for your feedback! I really appreciate it.

So far, and probably forever, no one touches my car but my little mitts.
Since I am confused about all the ins and outs of finishes, etc., I just use bottled drinking water in a spray bottle, the soft micro cloths, and dry paint brushes for the little crevices. Same for the engine. The wheels and tires I use Meguiar's. I place towels all round the painted surfaces that may be touched by the vacuum hose.

The little scratches on the surface are from the 'rough' micro cloths. I look forward to learning how to rectify this problem. I haven't had time to call the dealer about the coating they put on and in my car.

Thanks again and keep the info. coming!

[Eddie6th]

Re: Snake Oil???

Snake oils? I thought this thread was about synthetic engine oils.

[dmiller]

Re: Snake Oil???

I am very familiar with Xzilon. No way Xzilon is going to create swirl marks as it is applied by hand. I have noted the various opinions on this board concerning Xzilon and I have to say that few if any are accurate or fact based. History is full of people that could say "no way" and then found out that there is a way. Some of you seem to think you know all about how a new car dealer operates but nothing I've read is even close. Yes, if you leave a dealership in one of their cars you can be assured they made a profit. If you purchased a warranty, GAP insurance, credit insurance or any number of products and services offered through a dealers finance office you can be assured the dealer made a profit. So what? Does Meguiars not make a profit on the products they sell? That's the usual argument against anything sold by a car dealer. They make a profit on it so it can't be worth a damn....is an ignorant position to have concerning anything you know nothing about. Take advice from the narrow minded if you must but I suggest you engage your own brain power and decide for yourself after you have become informed and armed with facts not misinformation.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Snake Oil???

A rather defensive first post, and made by bringing up a three year old thread. Nobody stated that Xzilon or any other similar product would actually create swirls, just that it certainly won't prevent them. Most of the actual negativity in this thread has been directed at poor maintenance processes offered by various dealerships; the comments regarding the product in question have been more extreme skepticism than anything else.

Nobody expects a dealer to do anything for free as we all understand that dealerships, like any other business, are in business to make a profit. That's all fine and well. But people expect, and should expect, to get real value for their hard earned money. Many of these coatings come with claims and promises that they simply can not live up to, and the price asked for them is rarely in keeping with the benefit provided. Hence, they aren't seen as being good value, that's all. Besides, when you're talking to a bunch of hard core detailing enthusiasts who take actual joy and pride in maintaining their vehicles to a very high standard, you'll never convince them that a simple coating, all by itself, is going to out perform what they're capable of. There are waxes on the market that cost several thousand dollars for a small jar - perfectly fine products, no doubt, but in and of themselves they aren't capable of correcting or preventing problems. Even the new crop of semi permanent coatings currently available for purchase to anyone with an internet connection and a credit card, good as they are, still require proper prep prior to application. And even though they are remarkably durable (much more so than anyone thought possible just a couple of years ago) they can still end up with swirls if poor wash techniques are used.

Case in point:


A few months ago I received the following email:



Have been using Meguiars for about 15 years and love your stuff.
I just purchased a new 2011 Chrysler 300C that is painted with "black
crystal pearl" paint (car built in April 2011). As soon as I got it
home I washed it with dawn and clay barred the body.
The dealer wants me to purchase a sealant known as -------. All the
people in the dealership and two body shops I called seem to think the
stuff is great. I have a DA machine and a rotary and know how to use
them. Plus, I like to take care of my vehicles and do not consider it
to be work.


From what I read on the forum, it appears that all recommend your
Ultimate Wax for the best protection. I used Gold Class and NXT on our
previous car (black) and it looked like new after ten years.


So my question is would you go with the dealer or would you suggest wax
and if so, which one?
I know you can't beat up the competition but you can comment on your
observations of products.


Your suggestions appreciated.


Regards,


My response was that, since he owns and knows how to use these tools, that tells me that he's rather particular about his vehicle's appearance and that in the long run he probably won't be happy with the dealer applied coating. So I recommended a thorough evaluation of the paint and then perhaps nothing more than M205 applied either by DA at speed 4 max, or rotary at no more than 1000 rpm and light pressure, then apply a coat of Ultimate Wax. The M205 would do wonders for the clarity of that Black Crystal Pearl paint, and UW would just enhance it even further. He took my advice and a couple of weeks later sent the following email as a follow up:

Just got the car finished, I was out of town and had to play catch-up.
Followed your suggestions and had a good workout with the car. Must
say that Barry has produced some very good stuff and it did an amazing
job. Car looks like it should. Went to dealer last Saturday and they
asked me how I made the car look so good even in rainy Seattle. A
customer even wanted to know how I did it. HeeeHeee.


Thanks again for taking time to reply to me and for the good advice and
great products, I am very pleased. Please tell Mr M. to keep it coming,
we are all car crazy.


So, even the dealer was impressed and a customer inquired about it! And the owner of this new 300C (and yes, he gave me permission to reprint his emails here on MOL) will ultimately be happier in the long run with his car - not to mention he saved several hundred dollars.

This all begs the question - what do you want out of your car's finish?

You get what you put into it, no doubt, but proper maintenance following a major correction is actually quite easy and can keep a car looking fantastic for a long period of time. You really shouldn't have to be doing a major correction every 6 months, or even every year, if your maintenance routine is top notch. And let's face it, frequent car care is easy car care.

********************************


Other that, we do not intend to continue beating this otherwise dead horse. This topic has come up several times here and on other detailing forums. We have no problem with someone disagreeing with what is a general consensus on this and other forums, but we do take issue with someone's first post essentially being an attack on our membership.

[CreamPuff]

Re: Snake Oil???

I am very familiar with Xzilon. No way Xzilon is going to create swirl marks as it is applied by hand. I have noted the various opinions on this board concerning Xzilon and I have to say that few if any are accurate or fact based. History is full of people that could say "no way" and then found out that there is a way. Some of you seem to think you know all about how a new car dealer operates but nothing I've read is even close. Yes, if you leave a dealership in one of their cars you can be assured they made a profit. If you purchased a warranty, GAP insurance, credit insurance or any number of products and services offered through a dealers finance office you can be assured the dealer made a profit. So what? Does Meguiars not make a profit on the products they sell? That's the usual argument against anything sold by a car dealer. They make a profit on it so it can't be worth a damn....is an ignorant position to have concerning anything you know nothing about. Take advice from the narrow minded if you must but I suggest you engage your own brain power and decide for yourself after you have become informed and armed with facts not misinformation.

I've been on MOL for some time now...this maybe an old thread, but a lot are.

I actually like Meguiar's Online because the sense of community is very very strong here, and you sir are extremely out of place here.

I actually bought a 2005 Acura TL on Feb 17th, 2006 and back then, I didn't know nearly as much as I do now about car detailing. Mine came with Xzilon and to be honest, it didn't hold up. The paint had swirls, water marks, etc. This Xzilon did nothing to protect it from the elements. But for me, I didn't care, because I told the dealership I didn't want it. I told them to take it off or else I wouldn't buy the car and they said they'll just throw it in for free...which makes me wonder if there was anything on there in the first place.

For you to say "no way Xzilon is going to create swirl marks as it is applied by hand" is complete garbage. At one of the Thursday Night Garage Sessions, one of the guys has such delicate paint on his car (this is a VERY new car too, it's probably a 2012), that using Quik Detail with a Micro fiber can put some very fine scratches into the paint.

To me, it's not worth it, and that's coming from someone who got it for free, and had it on their car. Only person I trust now is myself, and the staff at Meguiar's, and of course A LOT of members on this forum know what the heck they're doing!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Snake Oil???

For you to say "no way Xzilon is going to create swirl marks as it is applied by hand" is complete garbage. At one of the Thursday Night Garage Sessions, one of the guys has such delicate paint on his car (this is a VERY new car too, it's probably a 2012), that using Quik Detail with a Micro fiber can put some very fine scratches into the paint.

Tommy, that may very well be, but just as you can't blame the QD or the towel in and of themselves for marring this crazy delicate paint, you can't really blame this other product for any potential marring, either. If the paint has been properly prepped and the coating applied by hand with the proper applicator, there is no reason at all for it to cause any marring. Unless, of course, the paint is so crazy delicate that it will scratch if the wind blows hard enough!

The really tricky part here is not so much the application of the final coating, but trusting that the dealership can create a true swirl free finish prior to applying it. Let's face it, if your paint is a mess before you apply this or any of the new breed of readily available coatings on the market, it's not going to fix the issues. And we've all seen too many dealerships totally botch a detail job. Yes, there are many dealers who actually know how to do a proper detail job, but they are not the norm. But any way you slice it, we just don't see this particular product, in and of itself, causing any problems during the application process. The skill of the operator, as always, is the huge variable.

[ffboy]

Re: Snake Oil???

It could be a good product, I think it's a bit unfair to be a bit too harsh on so-called paint protection packages. There is a product for everyone, and maybe these types of paint preservation packages do offer something that clients find appealing. Some people just don't have the time, patience and interest in keeping their cars looking good. People who are content with having a good, reliable, solid car even if the paint isn't exactly in the best of shape, and would rather pay to keep it shiny and protected even if it costs a lot. However, I do find the promise of a specific period of time questionable.

Anyway, there are a lot of car care products a bit guilty of making some promises.

Thankfully, I enjoy keeping cars clean and looking as good as it can.

[mswerb]

Re: Snake Oil???

The dealership I worked for actually got Xzilon for FREE and was charged for each one they sold, but here's the catch. They set their own price. One dealership could sell it for $200, while another could charge $500!
From what I remember Xzilon has more of a liquid feel to it as opposed to the consistancey of wax. It was applied with a microfiber towel and that was it. No hazing, no buffing off. In my opinion a good coat of wax was just as good. As far as the interior protection that was offered, you just might as well buy yourself a can of Scotch Guard at your local parts store.

[ffboy]

Re: Snake Oil???

The dealership I worked for actually got Xzilon for FREE and was charged for each one they sold, but here's the catch. They set their own price. One dealership could sell it for $200, while another could charge $500!
From what I remember Xzilon has more of a liquid feel to it as opposed to the consistancey of wax. It was applied with a microfiber towel and that was it. No hazing, no buffing off. In my opinion a good coat of wax was just as good. As far as the interior protection that was offered, you just might as well buy yourself a can of Scotch Guard at your local parts store.

That is the scary part. There should at least be a standard price set for all the dealerships, maybe give and take a few dollars based on location. But being liberal on how much to charge is a big no to me. I think its unfair that the dealership or "franchise" or shop can charge whatever price they can. While I don't think Xzilon is a miracle product, the product itself has no reason why it can't be a good protective coating on the car.