Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

[Mikejl]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

From the Meguiar's FAQ:

6. Does clay remove wax?

Yes, while clay is designed to remove above surface bonded contaminants, clay will also remove some wax protection from the surface. We strongly recommend following the claying process with a coat of wax for maximum gloss and protection.

Thanks Al,

I believe that quote adds support to my position.

Mike

[Mikejl]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Hey Mikejl, you wanna go into debating classes together? I think we're getting pretty good at this virtual debating stuff! LOL!

[CieraSL]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Well, I guess it's really hard to say whether claying removes all of the wax on the surface or some of it. I guess as long as it's picking up bonded contaminants and not marring the surface it doesn't matter, because you'll hopefully re-wax afterward anyway. I've clayed some cars and seen the water completely sheet on them with absolutely no beading, and I've clayed some cars and seen the water bead on them and it looks like it just got waxed. I'm not sure why that is, or why it varies from car to car. I know I'm right when I say that water beading is not the only indication that there is still wax on the car. I suppose that's why you just have to wax every few months, so you don't have to question whether or not there is indeed wax on the car. Between claying and polishing, all the wax will be removed. In the end, our "argument" won't matter, because the the end results on the car will tell the whole story.

[Poki]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Wouldn't the QD used as a clay lube make the water bead??

[Chop]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

I've clayed some cars and seen the water completely sheet on them with absolutely no beading, and I've clayed some cars and seen the water bead on them and it looks like it just got waxed. I'm not sure why that is, or why it varies from car to car.

My two cents:

It could be that the cars that showed no beading after clay either had very little wax left or no wax at all and the clay removed all wax that was left. While on the ones you saw beading they maybe had just been waxed or had multiple layers of wax and the clay was not agressive enough to remove all wax.

I am assumming you don't own these cars and if so then

[CieraSL]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

My two cents:

It could be that the cars that showed no beading after clay either had very little wax left or no wax at all and the clay removed all wax that was left. While on the ones you saw beading they maybe had just been waxed or had multiple layers of wax and the clay was not agressive enough to remove all wax.

I am assumming you don't own these cars and if so then

If you are saying that the cars that were clayed but still showed beading are mine then you are correct.

[cardriver]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

"Does claying really remove wax?"

Does it really matter? Anytime I clay, it's when I'm doing a complete fresh detail session (handful of times per year) and I wash with Dawn to strip off all the old product anyway. My weekly washes use NXT wash liquid.

[xantonin]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Could be that the lubricant you're using is causing the water to bead, and not the wax.

[TH0001]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Wouldn't the QD used as a clay lube make the water bead??

BINGO!!!!!

A freshly clayed surface, wiped with alcohol, will not bead water (in general, so paint's just seem to bead naturally).

I have seen this so many times it isn't even funny. Car doesn't bead before claying but starts to bead after claying. Wipe half of the hood down with alcohol, and suddenly the beading stops.

As far as removing most waxes and sealants, keep in mind that the coating thickness is usually sub micron!

Anybody who has done this long enough will run into weird problems with cars, where it appears that you cannot remove the sealant no matter what. My guess is that these are the cheap, jobber, style sealants that are loaded to the gills with silicones. From what has been explained to me, some of these products are like Vaseline, in that even if you wash you hands twenty times, they just seem to smear around. I have had cars where I could not buff out the swirl marks because it seemed like these products created a barrier on the paint (in this case only trusty M83 worked).

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

I think clay is designed to remove bonded contaminants that protrude above the surface.

While this is, of course, absolutely true, clay will still remove wax as it is technically a mildly abrasive product. How much wax it removes is going to have a lot to do with how long you work it against the surface. Compare the process to polishing out swirls - a good paint cleaner will get them out, but not if you don't work it long enough. Sure, the QD is there to act as a lubricant to both protect the paint and allow the clay to glide easily, but it's not an impervious barrier.

I don't think it abrades a smooth surface until it hit bare paint. If that were the case you would mar the surface. Plus the clay is gliding over layer of lubrication while it working.

Again, consider that a clay bar is, technically, doing its thing via an abrasive process and it's not just "picking" the bonded contaminants off the surface. Consider further that our C2100 Aggressive Clay is actually aggressive enough that it can, and often will, haze the paint.

As to water beading - we recently did a little wax comparo here at work and started by prepping the hood of a vehicle with Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner to remove anything from the surface and then left a section like that as a control. After applying 3 different waxes to the remaining sections and a week later washing the car, upon initial rinse all 4 sections beaded water almost equally - including the section with ONLY the paint cleaner used on it!! After washing, however, any residual paint cleaner was removed and with the final rinse the water just laid there in a big ol' sheet on the paint cleaner only section.

[Mikejl]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Alright. You guys have me on the fence now and I'm not so sure anymore.

I did use beading to come to my original conclusion. The last time I clayed, I made sure to watch carefully for beading before and after claying. I did this because the previous time I clayed I saw amazing beading after the following wash and rinse.

Here is the process I used:

Wash w/GC
Clay w/LT 1:1
wash w/GC

I noticed the beading to be just as tight during both the before and after rinses.

I need to Clay again real soon, so I will do a contolled test next time with pictures and post the results back here.


Mike

[Eddie6th]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

I believe it does.

[CieraSL]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

I know I've already posted in this thread, but a thought just came to me, so I'm going to throw it out there and you can tell me if you agree or not. I think that whether or not claying removes wax has a lot to do with how often the car is waxed. For example, if the car is waxed every 3 - 4 months, and the car is clayed (and the paint is cleaned) with every wax, then I would venture that most, if not all of the wax will be removed. However, if the car gets waxed more frequently, say once every 4 - 6 or 8 weeks, then I don't think all the wax will be removed. I clayed and waxed my car a couple of days ago, and I didn't really notice a difference in beading during my initial wash and the wash following claying. Now, my car gets waxed pretty often, so I think that factors into it. However, my parents' 1990 Accord gets waxed every 3 months or so, and after claying there is almost no beading whatsoever. Just a thought...

[Mikejl]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

I know I've already posted in this thread, but a thought just came to me, so I'm going to throw it out there and you can tell me if you agree or not. I think that whether or not claying removes wax has a lot to do with how often the car is waxed. For example, if the car is waxed every 3 - 4 months, and the car is clayed (and the paint is cleaned) with every wax, then I would venture that most, if not all of the wax will be removed. However, if the car gets waxed more frequently, say once every 4 - 6 or 8 weeks, then I don't think all the wax will be removed. I clayed and waxed my car a couple of days ago, and I didn't really notice a difference in beading during my initial wash and the wash following claying. Now, my car gets waxed pretty often, so I think that factors into it. However, my parents' 1990 Accord gets waxed every 3 months or so, and after claying there is almost no beading whatsoever. Just a thought...

I think your reasoning has merit and you may be on to what I am seeing.

I would like to throw in with the other side because of all the heavy hitters that say it does remove the wax, but I just can't get myself convinced. Unfortunately there are no verified lab test data one way or the other.

By the way I did clay again my car a couple of weeks ago, but didn't have time to do a controlled test with pictures as I had to get it ready to go to a wedding. I did see the same beading at the post claying wash as in the past.

Mike

[brims]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

For those of you that wash, clay, and wash again, there is the Meguiar's (?) squeak test to see if there is wax on the surface. I know this one won't work for those of us that wash then clay and move on because the QD will prevent the squeak, but this may be more information on this subject.