Does Claying Really Remove Wax? - Page 5

View Poll Results: Does Claying Remove the Wax or Sealant

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  • Yes Claying removes all the wax or sealant leaving the paint bare.

    76 37.81%
  • No Claying does not remove wax or sealant

    17 8.46%
  • Clay removes some wax or sealant but only where bonded contaminates were cleaned.

    44 21.89%
  • Depends on the type of clay used

    17 8.46%
  • Don't Know

    47 23.38%
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Thread: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

          
  1. #41
    Car Guy In Training Mikejl's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calais View Post
    I've washed my car right after claying and not waxed it and it beads water like crazy.
    Me too. That is what prompted me to start the thread.

    02zx9r included an IPA wipe down in his procedure. This insured there was no wax left on the car.

    Mike
    Why do we drive on a Parkway, and park on a Driveway

    George Carlin

  2. #42
    Car Guy In Training Mikejl's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax? I Now Know!

    I finally have my answer. I decided to clay and wax the car earlier this week. It was the perfect time to find out if claying will remove all the wax. My Camry wasn't too bad the with bonded contaminants this time around, but I did the whole car anyway and spent about 45 minute on it using Meguiar's Smooth Surface Clay and QD.

    Following the claying, I washed the car again thoroughly using:

    Gold Class Car Wash.
    1 Bucket (Car was washed less than an hour earlier with the 2bm).
    1 Clean Meguiar's micofiber Wash mitt.
    CR Spotless DI Water.

    Here is what it looked like after the rinse. Some pretty nice beading. Looked to me like there was some wax left on that paint.






    The next step in the test was to give the paint a good IPA wipe down. I used a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol and water on the trunk going over it several times.




    Here is the final picture and I really wasn't expecting this. This is what my stripped down Toyota paint looks like when sprayed down with water.




    The water actually beaded better on the right side and just rolled off the paint fast.

    Here is what I am taking away from this test.

    1. Claying DOES remove wax.
    2. Beading IS an indication of surface tension NOT an indication of wax or sealant protection present.
    Note: I say that with the caveat that if a person knows how his bare paint reacts to water, then beading could be an indicator of wax or sealant present.
    3. My Toyota paint doan need no stinkin' wax to bead like crazy!

    Mike
    Why do we drive on a Parkway, and park on a Driveway

    George Carlin

  3. #43
    Formerly 101impala Andy M.'s Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Keeping MOL family friendly! If you need help or have a question, don't hesitate to shoot me an email or PM. 101impala@gmail.com
    Andy M. Moderator

  4. #44
    Detailing Enthusiast CieraSL's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by CieraSL View Post
    I've clayed some cars and seen the water completely sheet on them with absolutely no beading, and I've clayed some cars and seen the water bead on them and it looks like it just got waxed. I'm not sure why that is, or why it varies from car to car. I know I'm right when I say that water beading is not the only indication that there is still wax on the car. I suppose that's why you just have to wax every few months, so you don't have to question whether or not there is indeed wax on the car. Between claying and polishing, all the wax will be removed.
    Quote Originally Posted by CieraSL View Post
    I know I've already posted in this thread, but a thought just came to me, so I'm going to throw it out there and you can tell me if you agree or not. I think that whether or not claying removes wax has a lot to do with how often the car is waxed. For example, if the car is waxed every 3 - 4 months, and the car is clayed (and the paint is cleaned) with every wax, then I would venture that most, if not all of the wax will be removed. However, if the car gets waxed more frequently, say once every 4 - 6 or 8 weeks, then I don't think all the wax will be removed. I clayed and waxed my car a couple of days ago, and I didn't really notice a difference in beading during my initial wash and the wash following claying. Now, my car gets waxed pretty often, so I think that factors into it. However, my parents' 1990 Accord gets waxed every 3 months or so, and after claying there is almost no beading whatsoever. Just a thought...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikejl View Post
    I think your reasoning has merit and you may be on to what I am seeing.

    I would like to throw in with the other side because of all the heavy hitters that say it does remove the wax, but I just can't get myself convinced. Unfortunately there are no verified lab test data one way or the other.

    By the way I did clay again my car a couple of weeks ago, but didn't have time to do a controlled test with pictures as I had to get it ready to go to a wedding. I did see the same beading at the post claying wash as in the past.

    Mike
    I think that this is the deal - with repeated waxings on a regular basis, the "oils" if you will get absorbed into the paint, so claying removes the wax that is on top of the paint but not the "oils" in the paint. Those oils in the paint is what causes the water beading. It could also have something to do with the type of wax used - whether it is a carnauba or a synthetic sealant. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe that most synthetic sealants have some level of silicone in them, correct? Which is why they usually say "not body shop safe". Water can't dissolve silicone, so it causes lots of surface tension, whether there is any LSP on the surface or not. I have almost always used a sealant on my car versus a carnauba, so I always have beading both before and after claying. I think a good test would be this: find a car (or discarded hood from a car) that had never been waxed or hadn't been waxed in a long time, that way you know there is nothing that can mess up the test. Clay both sides of the hood to remove bonded contaminants. Apply a synthetic sealant (like NXT 2.0 or M21) to one side of the hood, and apply a carnauba wax (like M26 or Gold Class to the other side. In 3-4 months, come back, clay the hood again, and see which side beads water more, or if they both bead the same. Just a guess here.
    Shane
    1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL

    If you trim yourself to fit the world you'll whittle yourself away. - Aaron Tippin

  5. #45
    Car Guy In Training Mikejl's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by CieraSL View Post
    I think that this is the deal - with repeated waxings on a regular basis, the "oils" if you will get absorbed into the paint, so claying removes the wax that is on top of the paint but not the "oils" in the paint. Those oils in the paint is what causes the water beading. It could also have something to do with the type of wax used - whether it is a carnauba or a synthetic sealant. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe that most synthetic sealants have some level of silicone in them, correct? Which is why they usually say "not body shop safe". Water can't dissolve silicone, so it causes lots of surface tension, whether there is any LSP on the surface or not. I have almost always used a sealant on my car versus a carnauba, so I always have beading both before and after claying. I think a good test would be this: find a car (or discarded hood from a car) that had never been waxed or hadn't been waxed in a long time, that way you know there is nothing that can mess up the test. Clay both sides of the hood to remove bonded contaminants. Apply a synthetic sealant (like NXT 2.0 or M21) to one side of the hood, and apply a carnauba wax (like M26 or Gold Class to the other side. In 3-4 months, come back, clay the hood again, and see which side beads water more, or if they both bead the same. Just a guess here.
    Interesting. But don't you think that the 50/50 IPA wipe down I did equates to paint that hasn't been waxed or sealed in a long time? I think it equals wax or sealant free paint.

    Shane, have we switched sides on this debate?

    Mike
    Why do we drive on a Parkway, and park on a Driveway

    George Carlin

  6. #46
    Detailing Enthusiast CieraSL's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikejl View Post
    Interesting. But don't you think that the 50/50 IPA wipe down I did equates to paint that hasn't been waxed or sealed in a long time? I think it equals wax or sealant free paint.

    Shane, have we switched sides on this debate?

    Mike
    Like I said before, there are so many ifs, ands, and buts involved in this debate that I'm sure it would be extremely hard to find a surefire answer given all the variables. To break down what I said, I still believe that claying removes wax but not the oils in the paint. As far as the 50/50 wipedown goes, water and alcohol don't mix, so the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint, but I don't see why you'd want to. Again, just my thoughts on the subject.
    Shane
    1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL

    If you trim yourself to fit the world you'll whittle yourself away. - Aaron Tippin

  7. #47
    Car Guy In Training Mikejl's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by CieraSL View Post
    Like I said before, there are so many ifs, ands, and buts involved in this debate that I'm sure it would be extremely hard to find a surefire answer given all the variables. To break down what I said, I still believe that claying removes wax but not the oils in the paint. As far as the 50/50 wipedown goes, water and alcohol don't mix, so the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint, but I don't see why you'd want to. Again, just my thoughts on the subject.
    OK, you covered a lot of points. Let me break them down a little:

    1. Claying removes wax.
    We both agree on that one.

    2. Claying does not remove the oils in the paint
    I don't know where these oils come from unless it's from the wax. I need more info.

    3. Water and Alcohol don't mix
    I didn't need them to stay mixed. I just needed to dilute the alcohol for the short term.

    4. ...the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself.
    I don't see how. It was completely evaporated by the time I got around to spraying the trunk with water. See the second picture a few posts above.

    5. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint
    I wouldn't have thought that factory baked and cured paint would have any liquid oils left on its surface. I'm not saying there isn't, just that you will need to educate me on this.

    Mike
    Why do we drive on a Parkway, and park on a Driveway

    George Carlin

  8. #48
    Detailing Enthusiast CieraSL's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikejl View Post
    OK, you covered a lot of points. Let me break them down a little:

    1. Claying removes wax.
    We both agree on that one.

    2. Claying does not remove the oils in the paint
    I don't know where these oils come from unless it's from the wax. I need more info.

    3. Water and Alcohol don't mix
    I didn't need them to stay mixed. I just needed to dilute the alcohol for the short term.

    4. ...the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself.
    I don't see how. It was completely evaporated by the time I got around to spraying the trunk with water. See the second picture a few posts above.

    5. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint
    I wouldn't have thought that factory baked and cured paint would have any liquid oils left on its surface. I'm not saying there isn't, just that you will need to educate me on this.

    Mike
    Well Mike, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't. Most of what I've stated in this thread has been based on my own personal observations and experiences and therefore has been speculation on my behalf. Which is pretty much all this thread has been - speculation. With regards to the IPA wipedown, I think that the alcohol in the IPA solution would have left some surface tension, even though it had evaporated. I have done some compounding/polishing on areas of cars that did not have any wax on them, yet when the area was sprayed down with water there was water beading in that area but not the surrounding area, which leads me to believe that almost anything you use on the paint will leave some sort of "residue" if you will behind, although certainly some will leave more than others, such as: wax will leave behind more surface tension than polish, because that is what it is designed to do. I don't have the slightest idea what the primary components of wax are - I'm not a chemist. But there are certain oils (haven't come up with a better term yet) in there that get into the pores of the paint and create surface tension if the car is waxed on a continuous basis, IMO. I don't know. I'm running out of things to say in this thread.
    Shane
    1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL

    If you trim yourself to fit the world you'll whittle yourself away. - Aaron Tippin

  9. #49
    Car Guy In Training Mikejl's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by CieraSL View Post
    Well Mike, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't. Most of what I've stated in this thread has been based on my own personal observations and experiences and therefore has been speculation on my behalf. Which is pretty much all this thread has been - speculation. With regards to the IPA wipedown, I think that the alcohol in the IPA solution would have left some surface tension, even though it had evaporated. I have done some compounding/polishing on areas of cars that did not have any wax on them, yet when the area was sprayed down with water there was water beading in that area but not the surrounding area, which leads me to believe that almost anything you use on the paint will leave some sort of "residue" if you will behind, although certainly some will leave more than others, such as: wax will leave behind more surface tension than polish, because that is what it is designed to do. I don't have the slightest idea what the primary components of wax are - I'm not a chemist. But there are certain oils (haven't come up with a better term yet) in there that get into the pores of the paint and create surface tension if the car is waxed on a continuous basis, IMO. I don't know. I'm running out of things to say in this thread.
    Shane,

    Here is what I think. My paint is still new (a year old) and new paint even bare will have good surface tension and bead water. I think as long I take care of the paint and frequently replace the sacrificial coating of wax or sealant before it is gone, my bare paint will be able to bead water for many years to come.

    I think when people neglect their paint, the paint surface starts to break down and the paint loses the surface tension it had when it was factory fresh and will no longer bead water.

    Maybe the Mods can change my vote and we can retire this thread.

    Mike
    Why do we drive on a Parkway, and park on a Driveway

    George Carlin

  10. #50
    Registered Member kesawi's Avatar
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    Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikejl View Post
    3. Water and Alcohol don't mix
    I didn't need them to stay mixed. I just needed to dilute the alcohol for the short term.
    Not getting involved in the argument, but just a technical correction. Water and alcohol do mix due to the prescence of hydrogen bonding between the alcohol and water molecules. If they didn't mix then you'd see layering in a bottle of scotch or other alcoholic drink.

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