Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

[nyjz1298]

I picked up my car from someone in NC 2.5 years ago. It's a Black 2002 Saab that looked perfect when I first bought it. I drove it up to NYC and it's been here ever since. I park it outside 24/7 and occasionally for the last two years it spend about 1 day each week parked under elevated train tracks. Ugh When it was washed, it was at the local car wash with harsh soaps. But now I'm turning over a new leaf. I want my car to look like it did when it first got to NYC. Here is what I've been upto... tell me where I went wrong...

I washed my car using Meguiars Nxt Generation

Clay's the entire car. Took HOURS. A lot of surface containments.

Using a G110 DA buffer with a Soft Buff 2.0 Polishing Pad I applied some Ultimate Compound. I noticed all of my bad water spots remained, even after 3 or 4 applications using a high speed setting a bit of pressure on the buffer.

I was getting frustrated with the Ultimate Compound so I went to the part store and picked up the most agressive stuff they had. "Mirror Glaze Fine Cut Cleaner #M0216" It's a "mildly agressive", and is described at only being able to remove fresh water spots. Ugh. I went ahead and applied the Mirror Glaze with a new Soft Buff 2.0 Polishing pad . I didn't have a cutting pad....

Low and behold the spots remained... they looked no different after a lot of hard work, even with the buffer.

I cut my losses and decided to keep going with my project with the products I had on hand. I went over the entire car using the Mirror Glaze and didn't continue with the Ultimate Compound.

After the Ultimate Compound I used Swirl X to buff it to a better shine. I used the DA Buffer with a Soft Buff 2.0 Polishing Pad.

After that I used Deep Crystal System Polish with the DA Bufer and a Finishing pad to help darken my black paint.

Then I used Nxt Generation Tech wax with the Buffer and a Finishing pad.

What Can I do to get these darn spots gone? Can a DA buffer buff these out, or do I need a standard rotory? Yikes!

[Murr1525]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

UC was the strongest compound you used.

The Fine Cut Cleaner is very mild.

So if the UC couldnt do it on the DA, probably nothing would, assuming you are using proper technique.

You might want to pick out a 1x1 foot square area, even tape it off with painters tape. And work in one or two good applications of UC with passion by hand. If that doesnt show any improvement, you might be living with them. Or you would at least have to find a pro with a rotary and a paint thickness gauge.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Really hate to make a post like this because we try not to here on MOL, but if you do some searching you might find the many topics on water spots. I have to get to sleep and have a horrible migraine or I would do it myself.

I'm sure Mike Phillips will chime in tomorrow too.

Bottom line, search for info about Type I, and Type II water spots. There are different types of water spots, and different methods for removal. Also, sadly, there are some water spots that just can't safely be removed.

Mark

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Sounds like you have Type II Water Spots, that is you have etchings in the clear layer of paint.

How To Remove Water Spots off Automotive Paints




In order to remove them you need to remove all the paint surrounding the etchings until the upper surface of all your paint is level with the lowest depths of the etchings you're trying to remove.

If the etchings are deep then this means removing a lot of paint and that can be dangerous as all the UV protection for the color coat is in the clear coat.

See this thread for a detailed explanation of what you're trying to do,

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything...


And as stated above, you were using one of the most aggressive products on the market for removing below surface defects, to get more aggressive you want to switch to a more aggressive tool like a rotary buffer or possibly work by hand due to the fact that you can exert more pressure with your 4 fingers pushing down on a wax applicator pad than you can with a DA Polisher due to the size of the pad and the clutch mechanism which will prevent the pad from rotating if too much pressure is applied.


See the threads in this link for more information on the topic of exerting pressure by hand...

From Popular Tags on the homepage, (right hand column)

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/tags.php?tag=exert

It could be they are deep enough that it's safer to learn to live with them than it is to remove them or look into having the car repainted.

[nyjz1298]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

I know Meguiars has plenty of products that can work with a DA buffer that is stronger than UC. I didn't buy my buffer to take the car in, so I'm going to get this taken care of.

Check out M0416 Heavy Cut Cleaner. It sounds like it will be just right. I was able to get most of the "spots" out but it left an odd shaped ring where the water spot was. A little circle scratch. Maybe I'll contact Meguiars by phone tomorrow since I'm using nothing but their products...

Whats the product Meguiars sells that is good to cut with using a DA after wet sanding? I bet that would work pretty good.

Also... I thought I could get away with NOT claying the car and just using UC and the buffer, but UC wasn't enough to even remove the contaminants that the clay was able to remove. A littl too mild for my issues...

[nyjz1298]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Sounds like you have Type II Water Spots, that is you have etchings in the clear layer of paint.

How To Remove Water Spots off Automotive Paints




In order to remove them you need to remove all the paint surrounding the etchings until the upper surface of all your paint is level with the lowest depths of the etchings you're trying to remove.

I know... read it... searched it... got no where. Well, I did learn that UC is more agressive then Mirror Glaze Fine Cut Cleaner. I'm also surprised that ScratchX could be enough to remove Acid Marks....

[nyjz1298]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Mike, do you have any product that you'd suggest that is more agressive than UC? No one seems to be comfortable recommending anything, yet you have many many many products... Please help.

[Jokeman]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Give Meg's 105 a run and see if that helps. You might not be able to remove the etching but it might be enough to round out the edges to make it less noticeable.

[nyjz1298]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

I'm going to order the red foam cutting pad and some m105...Hope it's not impossible with my DA. I'll see about getting some before and after pictures. Thanks!

[nyjz1298]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Here are pictures from the hood... I can't see any spots any more, just the rings where the spots were...







All the pictures are from my hood. I put a quarter in the picture for reference. The paint sure looks like it needs to be leveled out. I wonder if compounding would do the trick.

[nyjz1298]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

I order some M105 and M205 and a LC Orange pad. I'm going to have at probably next weekend since my order is delayed. Errr.

[pmason718]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Where are you at in NYC? I'm in NYC also

[nyjz1298]

Re: Acid Etching... Bad water spots won't go away after buffing

Sheephead Bay...Not far off the Belt Parkway. It looks like my wife parked under the elevated train in Bushwick for about 1.5 years. God knows whats really in a rain drop coming off the train tracks above. Now shes in a different neighborhood parking in a normal spot.

To update my progress so far...

Using the Orange Pad, M105, a good amount of pressue on my G110 at full blast (6) the spots came out. The bad part is, it took roughly 1 hour to take out the spots on the edge of my hoot from headlight to windsheild, the width of my buffing pad. At that rate it could take 10-12 hours and 4 32oz bottles of M105 (my guess).

I didn't get that far thankfully. I got a little too... Ok, way too agressive and impatient getting some scratches out. One scratch was a little deeper than the rest, so I angeled the buffer and dug in too much. Sure enough, I blew though the clear and color before I knew it. I called my father and I'll have him repaint the hood when I see him in a few months in Michigan. The roof has the same spots and just as hard to take out. I learned my lesson with the hood, and I don't want to repaint the entire car, so I'm taking my time. A peice of my pad blew off so I had to toss the pad and call it a day.

I ordered the same pad, but instead of 6.5 inches I got the 4 inch (with the backing plate) and the next/most agressive 4 inch pad. I'm trying to avoide wet sanding, but I have the paper and I can't spend all these hours with the buffer. It's just not right. I figure I can very carefully level, or nearly level the paint then follow up with some buffing, just not as much.

Lesson Learned: Don't angle a buffer and push hard in one spot! What was I thinking? Oh yeah... I was thinking my hands were about to fall off after more than an hour at 6 and way too little cutting going on. I see why people swear by rotary...