Internet Hype & Product Quality

[3Fitty]

So, I have been thinking about this recently and thought I'd start a discussion about it...

For those of us weekend warriors and pros alike who love the detailing past time, the internet has become a great resource for learning the "how to's" of detailing along with obtaining product information. The problem however, is that it also lends itself to unwarranted product hype.

One reason why MOL is my favorite detailing forum (I know most of post on about 47 different forums ), is because I feel like I know what I'm getting here. It *seems* as though there are no secrets.

The Meg's guys are here to teach and OBVIOUSLY promote Megs products (I think that is pretty normal since it's Megs site). They are confident in the Megs name and product line that they can say certain things which they feel they can back up by product performance.

However, I find with the explosion of internet fora, it has led to the "phony hype for product" method of selling. My question is, are we, as car detailers especially susceptible to this and if so, why?

My exact example of this hype, is as follows: 3Fitty is in the detailing business, he's also a shrewd business guy and puts out his news LSP..."Fitty's blazing glory". He now creats 4-5 different accounts at various detailing forums and starts buzzing bout his new product. Inevitably some who try it, will agree, while other will disagree, but the hype will have been created.

So, how often is the hype warranted? How often is the hype genuine?

Call me cynical, but I am starting to believe most of the hype is phony. I have a few of my go to guys (like Rasky, Nick Chapman, Tim Lingor, Porscheguy, Kevin Brown) whose opinion I really feel like is legit. Some work and test for Megs, but I feel like the opinions of those you can rely upon is ever shrinking.

Another aspect of all of this is simply those who just don't know enough (but still offer their opinions). I certainly fall into this group. I'm more than happy to offer my opinion on these products and some may rely on my opinion... which makes me think... well, what the heck do I know?

Maybe I'm just babbling, but I think I'm just trying to cut through the hype and get to the truth.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I have one last pet peeve... the "show off your work stuff". I'm going to once again refer to the list of guys above as proof of truly professional work (along with all the Megs guys, like all the Mikes, Mark, J.A., Yalerd etc...). When these guys do their before and after shots... it's always full sun or with a brinkman etc...

Look at my details... not a full sun shot or a brinkman shot to be found. Admitedly, I am a hack so you shouldn't be looking at my details to learn, but I also don't think anyone should be passing themselves off as doing "full correction" in 4 hours and then offering pictures taken 90 feet away, in the shade, saying "see, no swirls".

Okay, I'm done venting, any thoughts?

[Andy M.]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

Hey Slavko,

So when do I get a sample of Fitty's Blazing Glory????

Andy

[Underdawg736]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

I agree with ya 3Fitty. I'm just a to this hobby and I have noticed what you said. For the new guy's in the business I'm not expecting to see a trashed car transformed into a award winning show car, but it's nice to see them learn and improve from detail to detail.

I like MOL the best because you actually have employees here that will actually take time out from their day and show you what went wrong and what you can do to improve yourself. It is the Meguiar's website so promotion comes with the territory. I also like that nobody dogs you out if you do a shoddy job like other forums do.

I haven't tried most of the other non Megs stuff out there so I can't tell what's phoney and what's legit. For me Meg's products is mostly delivering what I expected from them and once I get a DA I know I can greatly improve on what I've learned here.

[CieraSL]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

I think the hype for a lot of "detailing products" is unwarranted. In every commercial, every ad, etc., etc., everyone says their product is the best, but without proof, there's nothing to back that up. You're just supposed to take their word for it and fork over your money for "the best product, the one that's better than all the competition." When I'm researching a product, I look at consumer reviews, because who's going to give you a more honest opinion, the manufacturer or the consumer? But I also allow for a margin of error so to speak, meaning the reviews given by people who have used the product but don't really know what they just used or what the hell they're doing. And if I can find a video showing how the product works, all the better.
Your other question/concern/vent was all the people who say one thing but show another. I can't speak for everybody else, but I'm just here to learn. I thought I knew a lot before I joined MOL, now I realize I know zilch next to Nick Chapman or Rasky or Tim Lingor or Mike Phillips or any of those guys. I'm sure they're still learning too, because it's when you stop learning that trouble starts. I look at it this way, I know what I know, and I can always know more. I learn something new every time I get on MOL. If I can help somebody else out or lend some advice, then great. If not, then I'll just be like the little sponge that I am and soak up all the information I can get. If I can't ever be like the guys at "the top", then that is OK. All I'm really looking for at this point is info that will help me achieve the results I'm after. And if I wind up doing detailing as a business in the distant future, then that's fine too. In the meantime, I'll just keep reading MOL and drooling and oohing and aahing over all the before and after pictures and thinking to myself, boy, am I pathetic - I must have something better to do with my time. Not!!

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

Yeah, I agree. It seems like more and more individuals are being paid to use some product (or only that brand) in a write-up. Or, there are those that purposely create threads to draw attention to the product.

For example, a user creates a thread stating that they just tried a new coating that lasts for a really long time. Why would they create that thread? It is not available and they cannot reveal the details. They may deny that they are not being paid, but they could be getting product instead.

Then there are those that switch between brands all the time. Is it possible that they try a lot of different brands? Sure. It is just funny when one person swaps complete product lines every few months.

One really annoying problem comes when a person has a problem with a product. Instead of offering a way to fix the problem, they state that they used product X and have no problems. Or, they cut down the product and state that this other product is superior.

There is a fine line between trying something new and great or just shilling.


When it comes to professional work, a Brinkmann, halogen worklights, Sun Guns, camera flashes, or sunlight are the only ways to prove that you have done the correction work. Fluorescent lights help if you are trying to improve gloss, too. But, four hours for a full correction? Well, it takes me two hours to wash and clay. True full correction takes a long time to complete. I would rather take the time to do it right, than to rush through a correction.

[mcox]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

Hey Slavko,

So when do I get a sample of Fitty's Blazing Glory????

Andy

I will be waiting for my sample as well! I also agree with Chris' statement" I would rather take the time to do it right, than to rush through a correction." It reminds me of an old saying- Why is there never time to do it right but always time to do it again? As for the group 3Fitty mentioned I could not agree more with the list. I would add some more folks to it tho' Joe at Superior Shine comes to mind off the top of my head. Any one that has educated me that I've failed to mention I apologize but I'm sure everyone gets Fitty's original point.

[john m.]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

Well I think you got it right, that most hype now is phony. It is true that there are so many people getting paid to say that a certain product is amazing and you never get a real opinion anymore. And like you said the people like Mike, Nick, Joe, Kevin, and such are to me the guys that I will listen to when they say what works.

Another thing you got spot on was that this is the best forum, all of the Megs guys are so nice and helpful here and like mentioned they dont just say well this product is much better, they actually try to figure out what could have caused the problem and the best way to fix it. Everyone here is like friends you have known forever only you havent

One thing to note is that lots of people that hype up products dont know very much about detailing and are new to it, so they use one product and think it works great. In turn suggesting people try it and false hype being spread.



One thing I wanted to say is that for me what made me choose Megs in the first place was the look, when I walk into somewhere like walmart and look at the different brands IMHO Meguiars just looks quality without even using it (ofcourse after using it you find its nothing but quality )



just my two cents though

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

Oh, and while I'm at it, I have one last pet peeve... the "show off your work stuff". I'm going to once again refer to the list of guys above as proof of truly professional work (along with all the Megs guys, like all the Mikes, Mark, J.A., Yalerd etc...). When these guys do their before and after shots... it's always full sun or with a brinkman etc...

Look at my details... not a full sun shot or a brinkman shot to be found. Admitedly, I am a hack so you shouldn't be looking at my details to learn, but I also don't think anyone should be passing themselves off as doing "full correction" in 4 hours and then offering pictures taken 90 feet away, in the shade, saying "see, no swirls".

Okay, I'm done venting, any thoughts?

Good point/peeve! Courtesy of (none other than...) Mike Phillips: Tips for how to correctly take pictures to document an Extreme Makeover

[Bunky]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

One thing to note is that lots of people that hype up products dont know very much about detailing and are new to it, so they use one product and think it works great. In turn suggesting people try it and false hype being spread.

I believe this is the most common behavior. You have very enthusiastic and eager people who have only used one product/brand and preaching the glories of it or they just repeat what they have heard or read on the internet without actually using the product. I think most are well intentioned though and not shilling.

There are not that many "new" products these days so I am not so sure about orchestrated shilling to any degree (like others said, I watch who the poster is).

The one that seems more suspect is actually promoting certain online sellers at every opportunity. There are a lot of great sellers now (great CS) so the competition is keen and there is not a significant amount of price competition between them on the boutique brands due to brand rules.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

I agree with your thoughts, 3 Fitty. Very well put. When I converted to Meguiars. It was not do to the hype by the employees. (not that there is any) It was done by the regular people who contribute to the forum. Every day people who achieved honest to goodness results using Meguiars products.

For me, that gave me the hope that If I follow these steps, I should be able to correct this. It works!
Having said that, I think in conclusion, That a company is certainly going to hype there products. But the proof really comes from the rest of us if a product is going to be the next best thing since sliced bread.

This knowledge comes from forums like this. People of all skill levels participating in real world applications. Some with outstanding results. Some so-so results. But the so-so results usually come from improper technique. So the members all pitch in to help you achieve your goals using the proper technique. Not selling you something else.

So I guess I am trying to say. Listen to the sales pitch. But the pitch to listen to is the one the non-employees make about a product. Realizing there is no product made that everyone is in love with universally. The majority of the people usually form a valid opinion. Then go from there.

Hope this did not turn into a rant, and it makes some sense. lol.

[sleepy]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

I agree with you 3Fitty, there is so much hype out there about products that it truly is hard to decide on what is really the truth. As far as this web site I have to agree with John M, it really is a friendly group that tries to help each other out on thier projects. I thought I knew about detailing but man was I wrong!! I enjoy the write ups and the whys and why nots for doing a project a certain way. I really do appriciate the professionals taking time to do indepth write ups and taking the time to show how they do things. This too me is inspiring!

I recently did my neighbors 1990 s10 pickup. The reason I got the opprotunity to do his truck was because he was impressed with the care and how my vehicles came out after I used the methods and products recommended on this website. He was really happy with the results. What someone else thinks of my recommendations, if I post them, is up to them. I can only tell someone else what has worked for me on my specific vehicles. The more I learn the better I can help others with thier projects. Which is the reason for this forum.

[3Fitty]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

See... a bunch of reasonable and thoughtful folks... that's what I'm talking about!

Oh... totally forgot about Joe (Superior Shine - he's a legend)...

I think my issue with my second pet peeve is that the real pros are talented individuals and I kind of think it is insulting for some schmuck, like me, to just preach how "I can do a full (and perfect) correction in 4 hours".

What??????

Guys like the top pros here, spend 8, 10, 12, 24, 30 hours on a vehicle to achieve perfect results. I try to put myself in their shoes... if I was on a internet forum and was listening or watching legal fallacies, it'd be tough for me to stay quiet, yet these guys all remain professional. Kudos to them.

As for the products...

Man... I've been sucked into so many "hype" products, you'd think I'd have learned by now. I guess that goes back to my original question... is it "us" as detailers (both hobbyist and pro alike) or is it just "me" that is so gullible?

Having written all of the above... I'm not even sure I'm cured of the illness! Truth be told, I'm reading forums all the time and I'll probably get sucked into buying a few more falsely hyped products. AGHHHHH!

BTW, in case you're wondering "Fitty's Blazing Glory" darkens paint, is non-staining on trim, goes on and off like a dream, has perfect optical clarity* and lasts for a minimum 937 days.+ It will be on the market in about 4 weeks and sells for $235 for a 6oz tub.














*This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA, or any other DA for that matter.

+All testing was done in Fitty's secret lab and have been confirmed by his 4 year old son.

[3Fitty]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

I thought I knew about detailing but man was I wrong!! I enjoy the write ups and the whys and why nots for doing a project a certain way. I really do appriciate the professionals taking time to do indepth write ups and taking the time to show how they do things. This too me is inspiring!

This is an important point and I think the real way towards learning. If you were to go back and read my first few posts, you'll see that even though I've been taking care of my cars for about 18 years, I virtually knew nothing compared to what I've learned in that time.

Perfect example... when I first read about the "12 hour cure time", thought that mean, put your wax on, come back in 12 hours and "it's cured"!!!

So, after about 7 (very nice) members REALLY dumbed down the explanation, I finally figured it out!!!

I also remember the first time I used D151. I started, got confused came in to MOL to read Tim's review. When I didn't see what I needed, I posted and got instant responses from various members and my project turned out pretty good! In any event, if you don't know where to send your checks for the new product, PM me!

[Mikejl]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

Well I don't know about hype, but I can tell you that "Fitty's Blazing Glory" is the last wax you'll ever want to buy.

FBG wipes on and wipes off effortlessly. I was able to wax my whole car in only 45 seconds and I wasn't even hurrying!

FBG leaves by far the shiniest, glossiest, and deepest finish I've ever seen on a car. I have no doubts that the durability will exceed the reported 6 months per applied layer.

3Fitty, thank you for sending me the pre-release sample! I predict that "Fitty's Blazing Glory" is going to shake up the Detailing community like no other wax ever has!



Mike

[wyseilmykkar]

Re: Internet Hype & Product Quality

I think one of the most unique features (and IMO, the one that makes it the best) of MOL is the combination of both professional detailers who use the products on a daily basis and those of us that are "weekenders" and rely on the advice and instruction of said professionals.
Now that's not to say that the "weekenders" can't or don't contribute - quite the contrary. By posting both our problems and our sucesses, we encourage additional users to improve our skills and bring more users into the fold - those that have never tried something before are now willing to try because they see that people just like them have the ability.
Regarding internet hype, there is no question that it exists and there is the potential for it to surface, even in a professional board such as this. As Fitty said, there are certain people whose opinions you can take pretty much at face value and those that you may need to discount somewhat, but in most cases everyone has something to contribute.
Hoepfully I've suceeded in making my intial point, which was that MOL provides useful information to all users on behalf of all users, and hype is something that you have to decide for yourself to follow or ignore. I would say MOL does a good job of not creating artificial hype, but rather providing a forum for users to post their experiences with products.