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**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2009, 04:23 PM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Since this was your first post to our forum,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

Here's some free advice, if you want to learn how to use a rotary buffer, learn on a junker car that no one will care about if you make a mistake.

If you're going to be buffing out cars with clear coats, then practice on a junker car with a clear coat. I once took 2-3 extension cords and asked the owner of a local wrecking yard if I could go out and buff on one of his cars for practice and he let me and I buffed on dozens of cars that day.

So think outside the box and get good at using the rotary buffer on something that's no important before you work on something important.

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2009, 04:24 PM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

We've written a few articls on this topic, hang tight while I go to the Hot Topics forum and grab the links for you.

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2009, 04:37 PM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Start here as it shows techniques,

5 Video segments on wet-sanding and using a rotary buffer

This article does a good job of explaining the big picture, sorry the pictures are missing but the information is still relavant...
(Server change and we lost all the pictures)

Learning to use the Rotary Buffer

Here's a few more,
Buffer Swirls, Holograms and the Rotary Buffer
Please explain Pros/Cons between Rotary and Orbital Buffers - Good thread
Holograms - Is it possible to 100% remove them with the rotary buffer?
How to avoid swirls and holograms?
Rotary vs DA Polisher vs Traditional Orbital Buffer
My Hatred of Clear Coats
Using a wetting-agent with M105 and M205
Rotary Buffers versus Random Orbital Polishers
Can a Rotary Buffer like a Makita or DeWalt be as Idiot-proof as a PC?
Avoiding Swirls with a Rotary buffer
Need HELP! - How to avoid holograms?
Working in the sun? How HOT does your car's paint get?

Couple other tips off the top of my head...

Don't use a rotary buffer with any loose clothing, tie, chain around your neck, draw ties for a hooded sweater, or anything that can get caught in the spindle.

Don't tackle too large an area at one time when removing sanding marks or below surface defects. You should never be buffing an area wider than your shoulders, a 2' by 2' area is as large as you should ever go and depending upon the shape of the panel probably even smaller.

Practice positioning yourself as close to the panel your buffing as as possible, this will allow you to hold the buffer closer to your body and the importance of this is because it gives you more powerful leverage and control over the rotary buffer. IF you hold the rotary buffer with outreached arms it will be real easy for the rotary buffer to have leverage and control over you.

Look at these pictures of how Paul and Shawn are standing close to the panel they are working on, they have stable footing and thus are able to firmly hold the buffer close to themselves where their arms, shoulders and back muscles can take command of the tool not visa-versa.

When you're first starting out don't try to tackle an entire car in one day, pace yourself by successfully buffing out a single panel from beginning to end. Keep in mind that besides your first step process with the rotary buffer you're still going to need to go over the panel with 2, 3, maybe more procedures and each process takes time as well as the time you'll spend carefully wiping the panel clean of spent residue and also at some point applying a wax or paint sealant, allowing time for drying and then wiping the dried wax off.

Even if your rotary buffer is quiet, hours of buffing can strain your ears so have some ear plugs handy, keep a handful of earplugs in the garage so you don't end up buffing for hours with no protection.

Wear safety glasses, rotary buffers are direct drive tools and can throw splatter or anything that comes into contact with the buffing pad with great force and speed.

Eat a large breakfast before starting any job that requires you to use rotary buffer.

Have plenty of liquids on hand so you don't get dehydrated.

Have plenty of clean polishing cloths on hand for removing spent material.

Have a Spur handy for cleaning wool pads and a stiff nylon brush for cleaning foam buffing pads.

Taken from this thread,

Advanced Class #2

In this picture Mike shows off by cleaning the pad with his eyes closed, don't try this at home kids.

After cleaning the pad in the pad washer, Mike then shows how to use a tool called a Spur to clean the pad again. The pad doesn't really need to be cleaned as it has not been used yet but spurring the pad will lift and loosen up the fibers perfectly preparing it for use. We're also teaching our students the proper way to clean the pad and we strongly emphasize the importance of cleaning your pads often whether they're wool or foam.

Note how Mike runs the pad cleaning spur from the center of the ad while placing some pressure on the handle with his foot while the back of the rotary buffer is resting on the floor.

**InfiniteDetail** · May 26, 2009, 04:38 PM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Welcome

I started out alot like you a little over a year ago. I've been taking money for detailing work so I guess that makes me "pro" LOL. I've detailed about a dozen cars or so for pay.

I use the DA as much as possible, and only resort to the rotary when absolutely necessary. Often times, I find that to get the perfect finish I have to use the DA as the rotary tends to leave holograms on some types of paints no matter how mild of a product and pad. Plus, the DA is so much easier to use; it's lighter and smaller.

Since you purchased the rotary already, do what Mike suggested and practice on old cars or panels from a junkyard car. Make sure to study up on rotary technique before you attempt to work on a valued car. I'd also suggest using soft pads and mild products to start as it is much safer.

Good luck with your adventures and keep us posted

**Eddie6th** · May 26, 2009, 05:29 PM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

hi vidgiyuk,and welcome

. There's plenty of good info here so enjoy.

I've got a question for you though. Do you know of any oulets in the UK,even where you are,where you can get a hold of the G110? I see Halfords do a decent range of Meg's,but i'm not sure if they do meg's DA's.

Cheers

**J. A. Michaels** · May 27, 2009, 08:48 AM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

hello and welcome to mol.

The only advice I camn give you is practice, practice, practice on junk panels. Good luck to you.

**vidguyuk** · May 28, 2009, 09:23 AM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Wow, thats a lot of great advice, thanks guys! And the videos will make for some very informative reading (inbetween chaning nappies).

I'm not going near my car until I've taken a couple of practice sessions on my families cars, theirs a good range (most are less than 10 years old, and my father in-laws is only 3 years old and looks like its been through barbed wire fence - pitty its silver as it would be a perfect starter project).

My cars paint is in pretty good order at the moment considering its about 5 years old, I've always been extra carefull when cleaning, but I really want to get the best out of it, your advice will be studied carefully and I'll follow your advice - especially the big breakfast part ;-).

The parts are still on the way out to me so its probably going to be a few weeks before I go anywhere near mine, will work on my dads car (heavy oxidisation on 15yr old green car) then my father in-laws 3 year old silver VW polo (lots of bug scratches to work on, including a nice big section of creasote to remove - nice). My wife's having a work with her friends mum who owns another 10 year old VW polo in black that has some huge scraches, and very very dull paint - she obviously doesn't care for the car so if I make a mistake I can't see her complaining too much.

Just one last set of questions if you don't mind:

Is it advisable to try remove scratches via polish alone if they don't look too deep? The last time I hand polished a lot came out that I thought were never going to shift, suppose a rotary is going to make the last few tiny if not invisible.
Priming: I read that priming the pad so that the surface area is covered and the product has been absorbed under the immediate surface should then allow only 3-4 drops off product on the pad. If I'm using 105 cutting compound, do I need to add any water/Final Inspection spray to the pad too? I suppose this also goes for 205 polish, any water needed?
As I mentioned, my cars paint isn't too bad, so as the rotary and pads were less than £100 all in, would I be best leaving this for the parts of the car that need it (deep scratches) and getting a DA for the usual very light scratches/swirls, using the 105 for cutting when needed?

Once again, thanks guys - great forum!

Eddie6th: I bought everything except the rotary from this store online: http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polish...es/cat_68.html
They have the G220

**Mike Phillips** · May 28, 2009, 10:13 AM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Originally posted by vidguyuk View Post

Just one last set of questions if you don't mind:

1. Is it advisable to try remove scratches via polish alone if they don't look too deep? The last time I hand polished a lot came out that I thought were never going to shift, suppose a rotary is going to make the last few tiny if not invisible.

That's perfectly fine, in fact that's the norm. One of the best ways to find all the deeper scratches is to first buff the paint with a compound or cleaner/polish and remove all the shallow scratches, after you do this the deeper scratches will show up like a sore thumb because now there's not a zillion shallow scratches surrounding them and acting to mask them.

Originally posted by vidguyuk View Post

2. Priming: I read that priming the pad so that the surface area is covered and the product has been absorbed under the immediate surface should then allow only 3-4 drops off product on the pad. If I'm using 105 cutting compound, do I need to add any water/Final Inspection spray to the pad too? I suppose this also goes for 205 polish, any water needed?

See this thread in Hot Topics for more information,

Using a wetting-agent with M105 and M205

Originally posted by vidguyuk View Post

3. As I mentioned, my cars paint isn't too bad, so as the rotary and pads were less than £100 all in, would I be best leaving this for the parts of the car that need it (deep scratches) and getting a DA for the usual very light scratches/swirls, using the 105 for cutting when needed?

Either way you want to go, it can be very challenging to get a 100% swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer. Most people do a DA Polisher step after the rotary work to insure any swirls have been removed. By changing the action of the tool, (switching to a DA), you are able to remove any RB swirls or holograms.

**InfiniteDetail** · May 28, 2009, 10:26 AM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Eddie, sounds like you have a good plan of attack. Just to reiterate what Mike said, try a cleaner/polish like M83 first and see if that doesn't do the job for you. If a couple of passes of M83 doesn't get it, then try M105 on a polishing pad. If that doesn't get it, try M105 on a cutting pad, then a wool pad, etc. going from least aggressive to most aggressive.

Also - use painter's tape to create "test areas" for each combination you are testing. A good high power flourescent or halogen light is good for inspecting the results, but the sun is best.

Be sure to post plenty of pictures

**vidguyuk** · May 29, 2009, 04:15 AM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Thanks again guys - great advice.

I've decided to get a DA also, will need to wait until next payday - all my spending money is pretty much done for the month. Glad I bough the new soft foam pads now and the latest M105 DA friendly compound. I might take the rotary to my own car if the small scratches & swirls are too stuborn for the DA, and get as much practice as I can on other peoples cars and body panels I can beg/borrow from scrap yards etc.

Once again, thank you soo much!

**Mike Phillips** · May 29, 2009, 08:25 AM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

We're already looking forward to your future posts about your success!

**Eddie6th** · Jun 14, 2009, 08:04 PM

Re: Newbie going in at the deepend

Okay thanks again for the link VidguyUK...

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