I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

[Onefire]

Hi all,

This is my first post, just wanted to say this is a great forum with a great bunch of people!

My issue is that I'm causing swirls and holograms but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. It may be a combination of things but I don't know. Lost sleep trying to come up with a conclusion.

All of the below was after a full detail. Wash, clean, clay, cut, polish and wax. My car had swirls before but after the full detail I took out most of the swirls and made it a lot better.

I usually hose my car off clean, then use a MF mitt. I use Meguiars car soap with my MF mitt. I only use one bucket with no screen. When I washed my car it wasn't dirty, just dust. I never rub my paint at all, I only glide the wash mitt on the surface of paint very lightly.

Just by looking at my paints surface it looks like I'm scratching lightly with my wash MF wash mitt. Any ideas on how to avoid this in the future?

I wax my car always with a Meguiars pad. Also by looking at my paints surface it looks like I'm also causing swirls by waxing in circular motions.

I always buff product out using MF cloths.

I wash all the items that touch my car in the washer using hot water and minimal liquid detergent then all hang to dry.

It really ***** thinking what I did to my paint. The full detail I did is now ruined and I will have to start again with another method.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

Hi all,


Just by looking at my paints surface it looks like I'm scratching lightly with my wash MF wash mitt. Any ideas on how to avoid this in the future?

Sounds like you're doing everything correctly?

Can you take a picture of the swirls in the hood or on the side of the car when the sun hits it?

What wax are you using?

[JamieR]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

You don't happen to have a black car, do you? Sounds like what I face with mine.
What kind of MF towels/wash mitt are you using? Not all MF are created equal, I had a bunch of cheap ones that are horrible to my paint, now have replaced them all with Meguiar's SS ones. With the mitt, be careful of the cuff as well, try to make sure it never touches the paint.

Jamie

[akimel]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a black car. I cause swirls in mine just by looking at her. This is called the observer effect. There really is only one solution ...

As one of our members once quipped, each morning she goes down to the garage and speaks the magic word "Swirl"--and swirls appear. I think she must have been trained at Hogwarts School of Detailing.

Truly, swirls are the bane of our existence. Remember how much happier we all were before swirls became a consuming concern of our lives?

At the very least our sanity requires that we adopt the 5 foot rule: if our car looks great standing 5 feet away, we should be content and stop all the fretting.

But all of this is digression. Like the OP, I too would love to figure out how not to instill swirls in my car.

[sudsbyhubbs]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

[QUOTE=Onefire;319331 I only use one bucket with no screen. [/QUOTE]

This might be some of the problem. Using two buckets with a Grit Guard would probably go a long ways in reducing swirls.

[Alex C.]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

I agree with Jamie in saying quality MF's are key.






....... and i know everyone says the less you touch the paint the better. But my daily method has kept me out of trouble for a while now. That is daily dustings and semi-daily wipedowns.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

For what it's worth, clear coats are scratch-sensitive, that is they are easily scratched and because there's a color coat under the clear layer it shows the swirls and scratches very easily to your eyes.

Also, there's a huge difference between a brand new wash mitt in new or excellent condition versus a mitt that's starting to look tatty and worn.

Everything that touches the paint has to be soft and gentle to the paint.

Clear coat paints are great in that they will last a long time, just don't confuse this to mean they will look good a long time because they can look horrible and still last a long time, has to do with their resin chemistry and paint hardness.

[Onefire]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

Sounds like you're doing everything correctly?

Can you take a picture of the swirls in the hood or on the side of the car when the sun hits it?

What wax are you using?

Hi Mike, thanks for the response. I've read a lot of your articles and responses. Very imformative and has helped me a lot

The swirls look to be spiderwebs and holograms which almost follow the same pattern I wax and apply product. But this is also the way I did a full detail and most of the swirls were filled/somewhat removed.

I'm using the original NXT liquid wax applied by hand.

You don't happen to have a black car, do you? Sounds like what I face with mine.
What kind of MF towels/wash mitt are you using? Not all MF are created equal, I had a bunch of cheap ones that are horrible to my paint, now have replaced them all with Meguiar's SS ones. With the mitt, be careful of the cuff as well, try to make sure it never touches the paint.

Jamie

Hey Jamie, nope, I have a red car actually. I don't know if it's my paint or not but I've detailed black cars before and the most I ever done is get the odd hologram. I've gone to these extreme steps for my currect car because I'm trying to remove the swirls.

Can low quality MF actually cause swirl on paint? Or is it the way I'm washing them? I actually tried to put swirls on my car on a small panal with the MF to see if that was the culprit and I didn't see any difference.

Truly, swirls are the bane of our existence. Remember how much happier we all were before swirls became a consuming concern of our lives?

At the very least our sanity requires that we adopt the 5 foot rule: if our car looks great standing 5 feet away, we should be content and stop all the fretting.

Ignorance is bliss right? All I want now is a perfect swirl free finish.

5 feet away it does look ok, under certain sun reflection it looks awful for my car.

This might be some of the problem. Using two buckets with a Grit Guard would probably go a long ways in reducing swirls.

I will definetely do the two bucket method from now on. I wasn't sure what it was until I just read a little on it.

For my current situation to remove swirls, Do I just start over and do a full detail again? I will only do this panal by panal and on different days as I've read on here after a couple of panals the quality of work dimnishes because of fatigue but that's person to person. I rather not risk it however.

I was planning on

-washing (two bucket method with hose rinsing as well)
-clay
-Scratch X
-Color X
-Wax

Is this overkill or do I need more steps? I own most of the basic meguiars products. So anything I need to add I won't have to purchase. But I really have no idea as I'm just finding out my method is flawed.

[akimel]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

For my current situation do you guys suggest I just start all over again? I was planning on doing.

- Wash (two bucket method with hose rinse)
- Clay
- Step 1 paint cleaner
- Scratch X
- Color X
- Wax

Starting completely over seems wrong to me. No need, for example, to clay or apply DC1 or ColorX. Wash the car and go directly to your polish or compound. Which polish/compound you should use will be revealed by your test spot. Perhaps SwirlX will be sufficient (hopefully). Perhaps you'll need to move up to Ultimate Compound. The test spot will reveal all.

After you have corrected the paint, then apply two coats of your preferred wax/sealant.

Consider, therefore, this process:

1) Wash
2) Polish (SwirlX? UC? UC followed by SwirlX?)
3) Wax

Cheers,
Al

[Mike Phillips]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

[QUOTE=Onefire;319452]

Can low quality MF actually cause swirl on paint? Or is it the way I'm washing them? I actually tried to put swirls on my car on a small panal with the MF to see if that was the culprit and I didn't see any difference.

Yes low quality cloths of any type can scratch paint, try to get microfiber polishing cloths that you know have an established reputation for being quality products.

Wash with quality detergent on hot water setting, dry in dryer on normal setting, don't use any fabric softener. Pretty basic and work well for most people.

For my current situation to remove swirls, Do I just start over and do a full detail again?

No.

You want to dial-in a system that will create the finish quality you're hoping for and expecting to one small section first. Once you dial-in a system that works in one small area and you've proved to yourself in two kinds of light that your system or process works, then you'll have the confidence to tackle the rest of the car because you already know how it's going to turn out.

I was planning on

-Scratch X

If you've been using the first version of ScratchX so far, then it's time to upgrade. Pick up a 16 once bottle of Ultimate Compound and SwirlX. Test SwirlX first and if it's not working fast enough or effectively enough the test out UC


You want to do something like what you see in the picture below, dial in a system or process to one small area and then tackle the rest of the car.

If you want perfection you should look into stepping up to machine cleaning and polishing. The human hand can never match the machine as the machine doesn't get tired.

TEST SPOT

Doing A Test-Spot

Before going over the entire car, see if you can make just one small section look good, that is apply the product you're planning on using over the entire car to just one small section about a foot squared or so. Work it in and then wipe it off, then apply the polish, work it in but not as much as the compound because now you're not trying to remove paint, just spread the product out, then immediately wipe it off, then apply the wax and let it fully dry and then wipe it off.

Now inspect our results. Make sure you can make one small section look GREAT before going over then entire car. If you can't make one small section look GREAT you won't be able to make the entire car look GREAT.

Make sense?

It should look like this,




And if you're having any problems, the post back here after the test section and we'll help you tweak your technique to insure you get it right.

[Armadadad]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

I found that the ScratchX works like a charm, I got a couple of scratches from a outdoor parking tent that was not tethered down and got a pretty nasty scratch when the wind moved the tent. I also went from a cheap MF to a Megs MF, huge difference!!! I would for sure recommend ScratchX and the put the 5ft rule into effect as well.

[Eddie6th]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

You don't happen to have a black car, do you? Sounds like what I face with mine.
What kind of MF towels/wash mitt are you using? Not all MF are created equal, I had a bunch of cheap ones that are horrible to my paint, now have replaced them all with Meguiar's SS ones. With the mitt, be careful of the cuff as well, try to make sure it never touches the paint.

Jamie

Good quality is of importance here.I actually prefer a good quality sponge.I'm always worried that something is hidden in the pile.

[Bunky]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

Just some random thoughts to prevent swirls...

1. drying - consider using a quick detailer in the drying process. Some use a leaf blower to dry but it never worked right for me in 2 tries.

2. wax applicator - prime the pad with a shot of QD and insure the entire surface has been moistened before applying it against the paint

3. buff removal - if you wax/buff outside, watch out for debris getting on the paint and getting into your pad or towels. I see airborne debris (off trees, etc) on paint with 15 to 20 min if left outside.

[jfelbab]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

Some suggestions, FWIW.

I'd recommend new, genuine sheepskin wash mitts and replace them every 3 months. Thoroughly wash them after every use. I take the older mitts and use them for rocker panels, lower body parts and wheels. Use the two bucket method and grit guards.

A good video of the washing process here: http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...-style-257442/)

Use low pressure water sheeting to effectively remove 90% of the water after washing. I'd suggest drying with a pair of Water Magnets (waffle weave drying towels), dabbing away any remaining water. Several friends report success using an electric leaf blower.

I'd suggest buying new applicators and high quality MF toweling. I'd replace these regularly as well.

Anything that touches your paint can potentially cause marring so everything must be of the highest quality and impeccably clean.

[InfiniteDetail]

Re: I keep causing swirls but I don't know from where.

I'd suggest buying new applicators and high quality MF toweling. I'd replace these regularly as well.

Anything that touches your paint can potentially cause marring so everything must be of the highest quality and impeccably clean.

I learned this lesson early on the hard way. The "el cheapo" MF towels I was using were marring the paint when drying or removing polish. To be safe, I recommend Meg's Supreme Shine towels...they will NOT mar your paint. Just one less variable to worry about.