Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?
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Thread: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

          
  1. #1
    Detailing Dunce akimel's Avatar
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    Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    With DC1 now disappearing from store shelves, presumably on its way to detailing oblivion, I would like to propose that Meguiar's bring out a new product--Meguiar's Paintwork Cleanser or Meguiar's Pre-Wax Cleanser or something like that.

    Over at another forum, it has been suggested that in popular detailing parlance a paint cleaner is a nonabrasive prep product that effects a deep cleaning of the paint without leaving behind any glazing oils or gloss enhancers (sounds like DC1, right?). A paint cleanser, on the other hand, is a nonabrasive prep product that cleanses the paint, removes wax, and enhances gloss. It also functions to temporarily hide swirls and slight defects. Examples of a paint cleanser are Dodo Juice Lime Prime Lite, Lusso Revitalizing Creme, P21S Paintwork Cleanser, and Swissvax Cleaning Fluid. Paint cleansers are particularly useful for those occasions when the detailer does not intend to correct paint defects through polishing but would still like to properly prepare the paint surface for waxing. I presume, though I do not know and may well be wrong on this point, that the cleansing action of these products is effected by chemicals rather than by abrasives. Interestingly, some detailers apparently like to use a paint cleanser even after they have corrected the paint with an abrasive polish.

    I propose that Meguiar's bring out a product that would directly compete with the products in the category of paint cleansers. It would need to be a product that effectively works whether when applied by hand or by dual action polisher.

    The closest product in the Meguiar's line that comes close to being a paint cleanser is M09 Swirl Remover; but it is not really marketed as a paint cleanser nor do I know how well it works when applied by hand.

    What do you think? Would you want such a product?

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    Al
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    Detailing Enthusiast CieraSL's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    Sounds like a good idea to me. I haven't done any polishing by hand, but I have used DC1 on my parents' 1990 Accord after claying but before waxing. I think it has improved the longevity somewhat. View thread here: http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33306
    Shane
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    Registered Member Murr1525's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    Well, I'd say that I can see where people may think SwirLX will be too agressive for regular use.

    But it also come back to what the Mike's have said about the new SMAT technology causing people to have to re-learn how to use some products. If you want a SMAT product milder, you just work them in milder, nothing to break down.

    Someone is also going to have to work very hard to explain to me why I dont want to do things that make the paint look better, like fix defects, leave behind oils, etc. If a mild, entry level product fixes defects and makes the finish look better, ***** for me.

    As a side note, keep in mind that no one in the "real world" is going to pay attention to whether a word that they have seen for decades has an extra 'S' in it or not.
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    Detailing Dunce akimel's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murr1525 View Post
    As a side note, keep in mind that no one in the "real world" is going to pay attention to whether a word that they have seen for decades has an extra 'S' in it or not.
    But detailers don't live in the "real world." Haha!
    Swirls hide in the black molecular depths, only waiting for the right time to emerge and destroy your sanity.
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    Recovering PC Addict Bounty's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    Quote Originally Posted by akimel View Post
    With DC1 now disappearing from store shelves, presumably on its way to detailing oblivion, I would like to propose that Meguiar's bring out a new product--Meguiar's Paintwork Cleanser or Meguiar's Pre-Wax Cleanser or something like that.
    Seeing DC-1 discontinued really hurts. I enjoyed using it and definitely would purchase again for its intended uses.

    Over at another forum, it has been suggested that in popular detailing parlance a paint cleaner is a nonabrasive prep product that effects a deep cleaning of the paint without leaving behind any glazing oils or gloss enhancers (sounds like DC1, right?). A paint cleanser, on the other hand, is a nonabrasive prep product that cleanses the paint, removes wax, and enhances gloss. It also functions to temporarily hide swirls and slight defects. Examples of a paint cleanser are Dodo Juice Lime Prime Lite, Lusso Revitalizing Creme, P21S Paintwork Cleanser, and Swissvax Cleaning Fluid. Paint cleansers are particularly useful for those occasions when the detailer does not intend to correct paint defects through polishing but would still like to properly prepare the paint surface for waxing. I presume, though I do not know and may well be wrong on this point, that the cleansing action of these products is effected by chemicals rather than by abrasives.
    Here's my take and reasoning behind why I think it won't ever happen...

    I have long been a fan of Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer. I use it on Concours details to prep the surface prior to applying my LSP of choice. It has some mild chemical cleaners/cleansers which remove anything that survived the wash and and prepares the surface to accept wax. It contains a mild gloss enhancer and some fillers which create a uniform surface layer ideal for polymer-based bonding. It is an excellent base for all of the carnauba waxes I have used it with. Particularly of value on one-step corrections where some very minor defects might remain, these paintwork enhacers contain enough fillers to mask them.

    The problem with this film layer/filler is that with a few exceptions (M16, DC-3, etc) all Meguiar's waxes and sealants contain chemical cleaning properties to one degree or another. That being the case, applying NXT 2.0 on top of it is a waste as it will typically remove the layer of fillers and thus render your work useless. This is also why Meguiar's waxes and sealants are not typically ideal for topping or layering and not recommended by Meg's as such. If you do layer a Meg's product it should be used as the base layer. Their recommendation for two thin coats is for total and completely uniform coverage and not to create film build.

    So in that vein, the DC-1 was ideal as it did all the work of a dedicated paint cleanser but leaves no film build as it was meant to be followed by an abrasive polish (DC-2). I like to use it since I primarily apply NXT 2.0 as a base layer topped by a boutique wax of my choice.

    I propose that Meguiar's bring out a product that would directly compete with the products in the category of paint cleansers. It would need to be a product that effectively works whether when applied by hand or by dual action polisher.
    In regards to a paint product that fills and masks defects and enhances gloss and can be topped they already have the established M07 (although I'm not a fan).

    The closest product in the Meguiar's line that comes close to being a paint cleanser is M09 Swirl Remover; but it is not really marketed as a paint cleanser nor do I know how well it works when applied by hand.
    It's more abrasive than the purely chemical cleaners/cleansers and doesn't mask defects as well.

    What do you think? Would you want such a product?
    Although I'd love to see it so I won't have to pay for the more expensive brands I doubt it'll happen. One can always hope though...

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    Registered Member jmakado's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    #9 is the closest to what you are looking for. IMO it fills like nobody's business.

    Also, DC-2 is a pure polish with no abrasive qualities.

    Lastly, I have never seen either NXT, NXT 2.0, or M21 remove a previous layer of pure polish. I have used all three on many different paint systems over #9, #7, DC2, and #80 (which has it's fair share of polishing oils).

    Not sure where you are getting some of your info from Bounty but please share as some of it seems to directly contradict what I read just doing a minimal amount of searching on MOL.
    Jason

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    Recovering PC Addict Bounty's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmakado View Post
    #9 is the closest to what you are looking for. IMO it fills like nobody's business.
    Aside from it's sometimes tricky or finicky behavior, M07 has both the nourishing oils necessary to darken paint colors and the filling capability to mask defects. I am just not a fan of it. M09 is a cleaner/polish which is rated a "3" on the Meguiar's abrasivity scale. The products he was referring to are abrasive-free and only contain chemical cleaners. Totally different category of product.

    Lastly, I have never seen either NXT, NXT 2.0, or M21 remove a previous layer of pure polish. I have used all three on many different paint systems over #9, #7, DC2, and #80 (which has it's fair share of polishing oils).

    Not sure where you are getting some of your info from Bounty but please share as some of it seems to directly contradict what I read just doing a minimal amount of searching on MOL.
    Mike Phillips...search his posts. There has long been a debate on this and other forums (Autogeek, Autopia, TID) as to whether or not NXT and NXT 2.0 contain cleaners. While not "cleaner waxes" they do contain mild chemical cleaners. NXT 2.0's mild chemical cleaners tend to remove film build...therefore not making it an ideal product for topping. NXT 2.0 contains kaolin clay which is a type of mild cleaner and is contained in most of Meguiar's waxes. See for yourself:

    http://www.meguiars.com/msds/msds_search.cfm

    And for some info from Mike directly on layering waxes:

    http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ead.php?t=2167

    Don't confuse infusing a porous surface with oils and creating a film build as Mike explains here:

    http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=29523

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    Registered Member ColonelCash's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    Couldn't you use a Cleaner Wax for the same purpose...I'm assuming you'd be topping it with another wax later in the job. Megs M06 and 3M both have a cleaner wax for sale.
    NOTE: Post count does not reflect actual detailing knowledge.

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    Registered Member Caress Detailing's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    Technically, isn't "Color X" like a paintwork cleanser? I've tried the P21S paintwork cleanser, and honestly, it's more glaze than cleaner. While I've had much better results with Color X followed by M21 or NXT.

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    Registered Member Murr1525's Avatar
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    Re: Do we need a Meguiar's paintwork "cleanser"?

    I think Al's original point was comparing things that didnt leave a wax behind, which ColorX would.

    But certainly wax is one of the things that can act as a filler, along with the polishing oils.
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