I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

[akimel]

I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist who contributed regularly to MOL. I would like some very basic, basic instruction on how things work. For example, how do carnauba waxes bond to the paint surface and how is this different from the way that synthetic sealants bond, etc.

For a short time several years ago, one of Mother's chemists, "Mr. Chemist" (aka Craig Burnett), contributed to the Autopia forum. His posts were exceptionally informative and are well worth reading. It would be wonderful if one of Meguiar's chemists would participate in the discussions of MOL and share with us the science that underlies polishes and waxes and all other stuff, etc. Curiosity wants to know.

Just a thought ...

Cheers,
Al

[Tuck91]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

I agree.

[BlueZero]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

That would be cool!

[the_invisible]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

Most chemists I had to deal with in work related jobs were eccentric people

[akimel]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

Most chemists I had to deal with in work related jobs were eccentric people

Most detailers I have had to deal with were eccentric people.

[kaptain_zero]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

Al, I found the following in a short article on DB that sort of addresses your question. I cannot attest to the competency of the source, but he did seem to make good old common sense when it came to cotton vs mf towels in removing the excess of an LSP. Due to the weaker adherence of organic waxes, the less scrubby cotton terry was suggested as more suitable, MF towels, with it's ability to clean greasy finger prints off a mirror with nothing more than a spritz of water, might be equally effective at removing organic waxes rubbed onto paint.

A polymer sealant forms a molecular bond with the paint surface, so when you remove it, you are removing excess product. An organic wax however, doesn’t form a bond with the paint surface but merely adheres to it, forming a chain-link type coating.

This article (and more) can be found in the Detailing School section of DB.

Regards

Christian

[sleepy]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

I think it would be very informative. Would really like to see a chemist on this website once in a while!

[Sandstone]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

One chemical engineer here. We tend to be eccentric. Chemists are just downright weird...JK.

Ask away but don't expect a quick response bc I don't get email notifications .

LSP's bond to paint with a physical and/or chemical bond. Since most if not all LSP's are wax/chemical combos you would have both types of bonding.

[akimel]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

One chemical engineer here.

Yipee!

LSP's bond to paint with a physical and/or chemical bond. Since most if not all LSP's are wax/chemical combos you would have both types of bonding.

Would you mind elaborating on this please. I have read that carnauba waxes adhere to the paint surface in the way that candle wax, for example, might adhere to one's finger but that synthetic waxes actually effect a molecular bond with the paint itself. Is this accurate? (See, e.g., this explanation. I do not know if the author's analysis is sound.)

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

That, my friend is a excellent idea.

[the_invisible]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

In all seriousness, it is understandable as to why there's no Meguiar's chemists posting on MOL. I believe most chemists are contracted to spend most of their working hours researching, developing, and testing products from their own company, as well as products of the competitors. You can imagine how much work that involves.

If the chemists are asked by Meguiar's to post on MOL, they would have to be compensated for that. After all, contributing to the company's resources (in this case MOL) takes away their own personal time. To avoid paying extras to the chemists, Meguiar's is better off by asking their chemists to stay off MOL. I may be wrong, but contracted scientists in different fields are only responsible for the R&D aspect of products. They are never involved in the marketing aspect of a business unless they are getting paid for their contribution. In accounting, costs of running a community forum such as MOL always falls into marketing/advertising expenses on the financial statements. In substance, MOL is an advertising tool of Meguiar's. This analysis may be a little far fetched for a relatively small corporation like Meguiar's. But that is how the industry works.

The above is also the reason why we never saw Viagra chemists being spokespersons for the products.

[Mike Pennington]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

Just to clarify....We don't contract out our chemists....They are all employees within our own R & D Department

That said, maybe we can put together a "live chat" with our R & D Staff ??

That may be the best of both worlds, since they are very busy with R & D responsibilities.

Let me see what we can come up with, but don't don't hold us to it

[Sandstone]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

Yipee!

Would you mind elaborating on this please. I have read that carnauba waxes adhere to the paint surface in the way that candle wax, for example, might adhere to one's finger but that synthetic waxes actually effect a molecular bond with the paint itself. Is this accurate? (See, e.g., this explanation. I do not know if the author's analysis is sound.)

Al,

Note that this is just my professional opinion based on 21 yrs in the chemical/plastics/fibers industry. I would always defer to a Megs chemist for the final word but here's my 2 cents. togwt is pretty much on target but I'll attempt to provide a less verbose response...

100% Carnauba will bond like candle wax to paint but note that in order to get the carnauba to flow and haze you need to dissolve it in petroleum distillates (VOC's) or something else which will dilute the wax and hopefully add some chemical bonding ability. Consequently, something touted as a pure wax is a blend of wax and solvent. When the solvent evaporates, the wax hazes.

A synthetic could and hopefully should be formulated as a mixture that would have a greater propensity to chemically bond to paint (think hydrogen bonding, ionic bonding, etc) resulting in a longer lasting product. Hope this helps.

[sleepy]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

So the reason why we have different types of wax is from the balance between solvents and wax?

[Sandstone]

Re: I wish we had a Meguiar's chemist

So the reason why we have different types of wax is from the balance between solvents and wax?

In addition to the ratio of wax to solvent, there are different types of waxes and solvents. Plus, there are other ingredients such as silicone, other polymers and, in the case of cleaner waxes with mechanical abrasives, probably TiO2 and/or some form of clay.

Here's a random example: IIRC M16 is a heavy wax meaning high molecular weight and hard. It has a high concentration of strong organic solvents to dissolve the harder wax making it an issue here in the US as far as volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are concerned. Since it is a hard wax, it mechanically bonds well and lasts a long time which, in addition to its appearance (due to the type of wax used), is why people like it so much. Candle wax is very soft and would not last long.