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  1. #11
    www.6speedonline.com the_invisible's Avatar
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    Re: Orange Peel

    Quote Originally Posted by SHYNEMAN123 View Post
    I would be glad to.

    I was amazed on my 1st one and wasn't sure what I did until a friend of mine who is a paint rep and I were talking and I told him what happened and he said that the paint got hot enough to reflow but not burn. Boy did my head get big.LOL
    Yeah, the older lacquer (I think) paint refinishes and flows as heat is generated. But newer paints are not like that unfortunately.

  2. #12
    Sr. Global Product & Training Spec Michael Stoops's Avatar
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    Re: Orange Peel

    Quote Originally Posted by SHYNEMAN123 View Post
    Mike,
    You posted:While it is true that the only way to truly remove orange peel is to wet sand,

    And also posted: You can remove 0.5 mil with repeated, aggressive rotary buffing alone.

    I agree with the 2nd.
    You may not fully agree with the first part, but it is the generally accepted method for removing orange peel. You've been doing this for years and have developed a very high skill level, an extensive knowledge of paint and how it responds to different inputs, etc. You didn't just pick up some sand paper and a rotary buffer one day and perform at the level you do today - it's guys like you who can make this process look easy because you've very good at it. But here at MOL we're more of a teaching forum than most other detailing forums are, so we like to find out what sort of experience an individual has before we get too deep into a wet sanding discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_invisible View Post
    Yeah, the older lacquer (I think) paint refinishes and flows as heat is generated. But newer paints are not like that unfortunately.
    And that is an excellent point. Modern catalyzed paint won't behave the same as old single stage lacquers do - heck, there's a thread here on MOL from an individual who went through his clear with ScratchX 2.0 and a terry cloth applicator working by hand! Heaven knows how long he scrubbed at the particular defect, and how hard he worked it, but he did it. And if he can make that mistake working by hand, others will make the same mistake with a rotary. They'll just do it a heck of a lot faster. We see it all the time.

    Someone with a good basic understanding of paint polishing, who understands what's really happening when you remove defects from paint, is going to have a higher success rate than someone who just dives into rotary use because he's heard it's the best tool for achieving an optimum shine, yet has no concept of what's actually happening when pad meets paint. Again, we see it all the time.

    Honestly, we hate to sound like a broken record, but there has been a lot of pretty casual talk about wet sanding around here lately and we just don't want anyone getting in over their heads. We don't want to quash all discussions of wet sanding - heck, we have an area of MOL dedicated to the topic - we just want people new to the process to go with eyes wide open, and their brain really thinking about what their hands are doing. Of all the tools available to a detailer the brain is probably the most overlooked, and the most powerful.


    Oh, and the_invisible, I love your collection of James May avatars!
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

  3. #13
    'Pearly Gates' Eddie6th's Avatar
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    Re: Orange Peel

    All the points you said Michael are sensible. As for orange peel on daily drivers,why this trendy attitude to wetsanding? I've seen many good cars here,detailed with consumer products by hand and also the G110. They have orange peel,but it's normal. I think on a factory clearcoat it is weakning it qiute a bit,esp. on the high spots.

    From what I've seen on panels that I've played around with,the orange peel is reduced,but not completely removed.
    If I take a pic from a few feet away,there's not that much difference,unless the peel effect was ridiculously bad to start with.

    I thought Invisibles avatar was his new car

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  4. #14
    Sr. Global Product & Training Spec Michael Stoops's Avatar
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    Re: Orange Peel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie6th View Post
    As for orange peel on daily drivers,why this trendy attitude to wetsanding?
    Good question, and we aren't quite sure why it's becoming more common for people to use wet sanding as a response to a defect removal question. While it can come in handy for small spot touch ups, or when doing touch up paint for stone chips, etc you still need to know what you're doing in those cases, especially on factory paint. But for general removal of orange peel on a factory paint job..... not really a great idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie6th View Post
    I've seen many good cars here,detailed with consumer products by hand and also the G110. They have orange peel,but it's normal. I think on a factory clearcoat it is weakning it qiute a bit,esp. on the high spots.
    Absolutely correct!
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

  5. #15
    'Pearly Gates' Eddie6th's Avatar
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    Re: Orange Peel

    That was an amazingly quik reply!


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  6. #16
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    Re: Orange Peel

    Yes wet sanding factory clears of 75 to 120 microns most often can be done but don't start sanding it with 2000 or stronger paper, OUCH.
    more like a once off 3000 or 4000 grit and taking it really cautiously

    Orange peel can be permanently buried by 10 to 98 percent using a few products and a rotary which hardly anyone in the USA or Australia uses properly or at all.
    I've done it to my car without removing any paint film and also reflowed the clear coat on a factory finish without removing it, it can be done but not something for non pro's to be trying

    Heat is good for paint, but there is a fine line between getting the finish insane and melting it causing delamination of the clear to the rest of the paint or burning it

  7. #17
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    Re: Orange Peel

    Never heard of being able to "Re-Flow" paint by heating it. What prevents the compound from getting trapped in the cracks as they flow closed? I do know that paint can expand when heated, but this is a temporary effect. You would have to produce the same results in front of me before I would believe it. And most importantly....why is the enter key on this computer not working? Can't create paragraphs!

  8. #18
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    Re: Orange Peel

    I don't believe this guy either!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Glossy View Post
    Yes wet sanding factory clears of 75 to 120 microns most often can be done but don't start sanding it with 2000 or stronger paper, OUCH.
    more like a once off 3000 or 4000 grit and taking it really cautiously

    Orange peel can be permanently buried by 10 to 98 percent using a few products and a rotary which hardly anyone in the USA or Australia uses properly or at all.
    I've done it to my car without removing any paint film and also reflowed the clear coat on a factory finish without removing it, it can be done but not something for non pro's to be trying

    Heat is good for paint, but there is a fine line between getting the finish insane and melting it causing delamination of the clear to the rest of the paint or burning it

  9. #19
    Registered Member scapegoat's Avatar
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    Re: Orange Peel

    The reason lacquer cracks is because it is constantly drying . Those cracking or forming crows feet . It only last a few years with proper care . This is one of the many reasons GM got away from it . Fords and Chryslers where spraying single stage enamel back in the day . I have been painting and wet sanding / buffing cars for 35 years . You can't re heat lacquer when it is (dead ) or first applied . Lacquer paint is fragile . It won't hold up to reheating or a too aggressive compound .

  10. #20
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    Re: Orange Peel

    Quote Originally Posted by allenk4 View Post
    And most importantly....why is the enter key on this computer not working? Can't create paragraphs!
    Try this link... http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...lity-with-IE10

    Bill

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