Applying pressure when working #82 by PC?

[manueljlg]

I would like to ask the experts which is the most effective way to use #82.
Should I apply pressure with my PC like when you are using #83?
Should I buff it until its dry?
Does the cleaning action takes place at the beginning or at the end of the application?

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

When working #82 Swirl Free Polish, I like to apply a moderate amount of pressure for the first few passes. Then I ease up for a few more passes. Do not work #82, or any Meguiar's product for that matter, until it is dry. With #82, you want to remove it while it is still damp.

I hope this helps!

Tim

[Marc08EX]

I somehow work it in like #83 but with a little faster arm speed.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Bri,

You do not want to work Meguiar's #82 Swirl Free Polish for as long as #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. When you are at the #82 stage, you are in the final process, preparing for the Last Step Product. By working the product too long, it may cause marring back into the finish. Hence the reason to remove while still damp.

Tim

[Marc08EX]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hey Bri,

You do not want to work Meguiar's #82 Swirl Free Polish for as long as #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. When you are at the #82 stage, you are in the final process, preparing for the Last Step Product. By working the product too long, it may cause marring back into the finish. Hence the reason to remove while still damp.

Tim

I never let #83 nor #82 dry to a haze.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Meguiar's #83 DACP needs to be worked until only a slight residue/dust remains. This will ensure that the Diminshing Abrasives break down properly. But, with the #82 Swirl Free Polish, you still work it in, just not for as long as DACP. As such, you then remove while still damp.

Cheers!

Tim

[Marc08EX]

I think I do that because I've read a lot of posts of Mike regarding this matter... As far as I can remember, the #82 doesn't need to be worked in as much as #83, thus the faster arm speed. I think I'm doing it right since I don't see any hazing anyways.. (do you remember the porsche 944 I detailed?) Now I'm quite confused..

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Bri,

One source I would suggest looking at would be Meguiar's "How to Remove Paint Defects" video; Mike actually wrote the script. In it, describes the process for the Diminshing Abrasives to break down etc... To make a long story short, you are probably doing everything right! I am just clarifying for the newer readers that may get confused in the process.

My comments generally reflect the use of the product with the PC or rotary buffer. As such, with #83 DACP, you generally use a higher speed and work the product longer than you would #82 Swirl Free Polish.

So, for example, with DACP and the PC, you work the product with the PC set to speed 5 until the product breaks down with only a fine residue/dust remaining.

With the #82 SFP, using a PC set to speed 4-5, work the product in, but not for as long as the DACP. Since you are not working it in as long, the product will be *slightly* damp.

I am not sure about the arm speed as I do not use these by hand. However, #82 is pretty mild and would unlikely leave a haze. But #83 may leave a haze if it is not worked long enough.

The main thing is, work DACP longer than #82 (which if I had probably said that in the beginning, would have made life easier! )

Tim

[Marc08EX]

Originally posted by 2hotford


I am not sure about the arm speed as I do not use these by hand. However, #82 is pretty mild and would unlikely leave a haze. But #83 may leave a haze if it is not worked long enough.

Tim

Arm speed is the rate in which you move the G-100 on the paint's surface.. Remember that Mike is always emphasizing that the G-100 should be moved very slowly to be able to work the product in? Think of the G-100 as the car having a speed in mph and the paint surface as the road. When applying the #83 using the PC, it would be in a much slower speed compared to when using the #82.

[Tim Lingor]

Hi Bri,

Thanks. I wondered if you were referring to using the product by hand; or, whether it was the movement of the buffer across the paint's surface.

Using a slow speed arm movement (moving the buffer slowly across the paint's surface), is important as it allows the PC to generate enough heat/friction in order to break down the diminishing abrasives properly. In that sense, with #82 SFP you can still move the buffer slowly across the surface, even with the same pressure. You just do not work the product as long. The Diminshing Abrasives still need to be broken down properly with either product. But again, DACP will require more time compared with #82.

The other issue to consider is the product removal. Sometimes if you work #82 too long, it can be very difficult to remove. As such, you will then apply too much effort in trying to remove the residue. This in turn increases your chances of re-introducing marring back into the finish.

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Bri
I think I do that because I've read a lot of posts of Mike regarding this matter... As far as I can remember, the #82 doesn't need to be worked in as much as #83, thus the faster arm speed. I think I'm doing it right since I don't see any hazing anyways.. (do you remember the Porsche 944 I detailed?) Now I'm quite confused..

Let me chime in here and see if I can help...

Here are the factors that affect product performance when using a dual action polisher

• * Product Choice - What is the product? How aggressive, or how gentle is it?
  
  * Pad Choice - Think of this as your application material. Application material modifies product choice.
  
  * Paint Hardness, (or softness) - Paint hardness determines how workable the paint is as far as removing defects is concerned because paint hardness affects how hard or how easy it is to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove the defect. Below surface defects are removed by removing paint. In order to remove a below surface defect such as a scratch or swirls, you must remove enough paint to level the surrounding surface with the lowest depth of the defect. This mean removing paint and how hard or how soft the paint is determines how hard or how easy it is going to be to remove small particles of it in a controlled fashion.
  
  * OPM's - Oscillations Per Minute. For more aggressive cleaning, or abrading action, you need higher OPM's. The action of the foam pad oscillating, rotating and vibrating against the finish affects the cleaning, or abrading power.
  
  * Head pressure - the amount of downward pressure exerted against the head of the polisher and in turn, transfered to the foam pad against the paint surface.
  
  * Arm Speed - The speed at which you move the polisher over the surface. Arm speed can also be thought of as to,e. The speed, or rate at which the polisher is moved over the surface controls the effectiveness for which the combination of foam, product and head pressure have to work against the finish. Moving the polisher over the surface too fast doesn't allow the polisher to effectively clean, or abrade the finish. Arm Speed is directly related to time.
  
  * Time - How fast the polisher moved over the surface determines how much time the combination of foam, product and head pressure has to clean, or abrade the surface for any given area.
  
  *Skill and experience - Practice makes perfect. Book knowledge is a great start, but nothing can replace hours of hand-on, real-world experience.

Some of the above listed items you can control, while some of the above listed items you cannot control For this reason, it's impossible to come out with a black and white set of rules to follow when polishing paint with a G-100 dual action polisher. The best we can do is to offer recommendations based upon product knowledge and experience.

Products like the #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish are fairly aggressive cleaner/polishes. How aggressive, or how non-aggressive is in large part determined by application material and application process. For example, #83 DACP is more aggressive applied with a cutting pad, (foam or wool), with a rotary buffer than it ever will be applied with a dual action polisher using a foam pad. But applied either way, it is vital that this product be thoroughly worked against the finish in order to remove the defects and in the process, break the diminishing abrasives down to create a clear, high gloss finish.

Products like the #82 Swirl Free Polish, #80 Speed Glaze and #9 Swirl Remover 2.0 are much less aggressive and use a different type of diminishing abrasive so that they allow for a little faster arm speed while requiring less time and pressure to enable your combination of foam pad and OPM's to break the diminishing abrasive down, while removing fine defects and restoring a clear, high gloss finish.

When using the G-100 polisher, each detail you do may be a little different than any other because of paint hardness. That's where skill and experience will help you to know how fast or how slow to move the polisher over the surface, (arm speed), and how much pressure to apply to the head of the polisher.

As Tim pointed out, you never want to buff to a dry buff but instead, before you get to the point of buffing dry, stop and remove your product. If further polishing is required, do so after removing any excess residue and applying fresh product to your pad. Take your time when using #83 DACP and when using the other cleaner/polishes, depending on how hard the paint is, you can use a slightly slower OPM, reduce your head pressure and increase your arm speed just a little over the arm speed you use with the #83 and with a little luck, your will create show car results.

I hope this has helped. It's so much easier to show someone proper technique out in the garage with real tools and products in your hands than from an office sitting behind a computer monitor using a keyboard.

Mike

[manueljlg]

Great post Mike, you should consider making it a sticky

[Tim Lingor]

Great post Mike!!!

I feel that one of the key elements to Mike's post was

*Skill and experience - Practice makes perfect. Book knowledge is a great start, but nothing can replace hours of hand-on, real-world experience.

All paints (BC/CC, SS, etc) react differently. On some paints, one method will work while others will not. Paint hardness is a huge factor in determining success. If one uses a generic set of rules in using the PC, you will experience success on some paints, and failures on others. Buffer head pressure, speed at which you move the buffer across the surface, as well as experience in what combination of the above, will allow you to create that show car finish!!

Experience over the years will be your friend!

Tim