D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)
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  1. #1
    ROCKnROLLA
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    D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    ok so first i would like to say that this forum is great! i've been reading mostly for over a year and have learned a ton of info! thank you for all the info.

    i bought a pcxp and a lot of supplies a few months back. I got a gallon of 151 after reading Tim Lingor review of the product.

    I have slight swirls on my 08 grand cherokee that i was hoping to remove with the d151.

    I used the PC on speed 5+6 with an orange 6.5 LC pad. i made 4-5 passes(left-right,up-down,left-right,up-down,left-right) with moderate pressure(15lbs) and noticed the swirls weren't removed.

    I also tried doing a few passes on the same section with speed 3-4 and light pressure to jewel the process. This didn't help remove the swirls either

    is there anything that i did wrong? should i use a wool pad? the truck was washed/clayed before i used 151

    here is a pic to show what swirls are left. im guessing these are deeper and will need something more aggressive. can i get a way with swirlx or m205 or do i have to step up to UC or 105?

    Thank you

    before d151



    After d151

  2. #2
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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    I'm not Tim but perhaps I can put in my $.02 to try to assist...

    I use D151 a lot - it's my daily go-to product for all of my standard customer details unless I am doing full multi-step paint correction so i'm pretty used to the product.

    D151 is an excellent product and its strength is in it's all-in-one single step polish & wax convience.
    The cut level is very close to or just a hair below that of M205 (cut level 4) which is considered a finishing polish.
    What this means is that while it will remove some minor swirls and defects, depending on the hardness of the paint surface you are working with it very well may not remove them all even with a relatively aggressive pad like an orange pad.
    If your combination of orange pad / D151 / speed 5 & 6 and with multiple passes didn't remove all of the swirls that tells you it's simply time to move up to a bit of a more aggressive product such as ScratchX, UC or M105.
    keep in mind that the same combination that you already tried may be more effective and remove the swirls on a "softer" paint.
    For example, yesterday I was doing a customer's Porsche Cayman S with a beautiful black metallic paint. It had a fair amount of swirkling but the customer decided against a full paint correction because this car is mainly a track car, not a show car and not even a street driven car anymore. After washing and claying I used my standard D151 with a 6.5" white pad (less aggressive pad that the orange one you used) with my Flex 3401. I knew from experience that the D151/white pad usually works pretty well and since I wasn't doing a paint correction job the swirls were a far secondary issue - I was more concerned about it just being clean, shiney, and slick. This car must have had relatively soft paint though because when I was done about 99% of the swirls were all gone and the car looked phenomenal.

    Based on your results with the pad/product combination you used I recommend trying a more aggressive product next to eliminate the swirls.

    Also, while you may not have had the "success" you expected with the D151 in this case don't give up on that product, it's really a very excellent and convenient product to have and use
    What am I, fly-paper for morons?

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    Formerly "n737nc" Nick Chapman's Avatar
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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    Well said Barry!
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    Global Product & Training Spec Michael Stoops's Avatar
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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    As BarryK so beautifully points out, D151 is not an extremely aggressive product in and of itself. Part of it's beauty is the all in one nature of the product, but also that it can be mated to a wide variety of pads, including wool. But since you're working with a PCXP and not a rotary, wool is out of the question. Depending on how hard your paint is you may have just reached the limit of what you can do with this product on this paint.

    Try stepping up to Ultimate Compound and odds are very good that you'll get rid of the swirls that remain. From the looks of things you probably don't need to go all the way up to M105. You can then use D151 as a routine maintenance product down the road, when only very light swirls are beginning to show. And they will.
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    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    Quote Originally Posted by BarryK View Post
    I'm not Tim but perhaps I can put in my $.02 to try to assist...

    I use D151 a lot - it's my daily go-to product for all of my standard customer details unless I am doing full multi-step paint correction so i'm pretty used to the product.

    D151 is an excellent product and its strength is in it's all-in-one single step polish & wax convience.
    The cut level is very close to or just a hair below that of M205 (cut level 4) which is considered a finishing polish.
    What this means is that while it will remove some minor swirls and defects, depending on the hardness of the paint surface you are working with it very well may not remove them all even with a relatively aggressive pad like an orange pad.
    If your combination of orange pad / D151 / speed 5 & 6 and with multiple passes didn't remove all of the swirls that tells you it's simply time to move up to a bit of a more aggressive product such as ScratchX, UC or M105.
    keep in mind that the same combination that you already tried may be more effective and remove the swirls on a "softer" paint.
    For example, yesterday I was doing a customer's Porsche Cayman S with a beautiful black metallic paint. It had a fair amount of swirkling but the customer decided against a full paint correction because this car is mainly a track car, not a show car and not even a street driven car anymore. After washing and claying I used my standard D151 with a 6.5" white pad (less aggressive pad that the orange one you used) with my Flex 3401. I knew from experience that the D151/white pad usually works pretty well and since I wasn't doing a paint correction job the swirls were a far secondary issue - I was more concerned about it just being clean, shiney, and slick. This car must have had relatively soft paint though because when I was done about 99% of the swirls were all gone and the car looked phenomenal.

    Based on your results with the pad/product combination you used I recommend trying a more aggressive product next to eliminate the swirls.

    Also, while you may not have had the "success" you expected with the D151 in this case don't give up on that product, it's really a very excellent and convenient product to have and use
    Great answer barry!!! thanks! i guess the cc on the jeep is harder than i thought.

    i also noticed that my pads were getting softer in the middle and actually started to concave inwards!!!

    i wonder if i used too much pressure i do have the backing plate marked so i can see if the pad was still spinning and it was!

    i guess i will just top this with m16 for the winter and in the spring i will go with UC to remove all the swirls.

    thanks again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Stoops View Post
    As BarryK so beautifully points out, D151 is not an extremely aggressive product in and of itself. Part of it's beauty is the all in one nature of the product, but also that it can be mated to a wide variety of pads, including wool. But since you're working with a PCXP and not a rotary, wool is out of the question. Depending on how hard your paint is you may have just reached the limit of what you can do with this product on this paint.

    Try stepping up to Ultimate Compound and odds are very good that you'll get rid of the swirls that remain. From the looks of things you probably don't need to go all the way up to M105. You can then use D151 as a routine maintenance product down the road, when only very light swirls are beginning to show. And they will.

    thanks Michael! i will step up to UC in the spring. for now i will just throw in m16 for the winter. i must admit D151 did leave the car looking dripping wet!!!

    i also rinsed the truck afterwords to get rid of all the dust and the water was beading like crazy!!!

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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamps View Post
    Great answer barry!!! thanks! i guess the cc on the jeep is harder than i thought.

    i also noticed that my pads were getting softer in the middle and actually started to concave inwards!!!

    i wonder if i used too much pressure i do have the backing plate marked so i can see if the pad was still spinning and it was!

    i guess i will just top this with m16 for the winter and in the spring i will go with UC to remove all the swirls.

    thanks again!




    thanks Michael! i will step up to UC in the spring. for now i will just throw in m16 for the winter. i must admit D151 did leave the car looking dripping wet!!!

    i also rinsed the truck afterwords to get rid of all the dust and the water was beading like crazy!!!
    with your PC it's easy to tell of you are applying too much pressure - the pad stops rotating. That's what the clutch is for and where a lot of the "safety" of the PC comes into play. If the pad was still rotating than you were not applying too much pressure

    M16 is another excellent product but remember that the D151 has already put a nice protective layer of wax on your jeep. By topping that with M26 you are not really going to accomplish much. The single biggest advantage is that by applying a second coat (the #26 topping coat would be considered the second coat) you are making sure everything is covered with wax in case you accidently missed any areas on the first coat. Other than that you really aren't going to see much of a difference at all, if any.

    On the other hand, I do tend to top a sealant, such as M21 with a nice wax such as #26, a lot
    What am I, fly-paper for morons?

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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    from what i read, M16 is suppose to be a really good winter wax. i was hoping that topping with m16 would give me a nice even coverage and would be a tougher wax than the d151. is this correct?

    i also top nxt with #26 #26 is good stuff!!!

    so you are saying go with #26 instead of m16 over d151 for winter protection?

    yes i have 4 lines on my backing plate so i can see if i put too much pressure and if the bp stops rotating. another great tip i learned from Mike Phillips

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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    I've actually never used #16, only heard good stuff about it (all good which is why I mentioned it was an excellent product). I can't really answer though if it's going to be more durable or not than the D151.
    Again, the second coating will assure of of full vehicle coverage, but as for durability over D151 I can't say.

    *MY* personal opinion, that others may or may not agree with, is that topping a SEALANT such as NXT 2.0, M21, etc with a Carnuba like #26 or #16 had advantages because sealants were always generally accepted as lasting a lot longer than a wax but didn't have quite the gloss or shine to them. Topping them with a nice wax like #26, etc make them pop and shine more and the end effect was a long lasting, impressive glossy finish.
    On the other hand I never saw any advantage of topping one wax with another wax. If one wax is more durable than simply use it instead but topping it with another wax really isn't "gaining" anything that i've ever discovered EXCEPT to assure full coverage on the vehicle in case you might have missed areas on the first coat. Again, others may disagree and i'm willing to be proved wrong. (proved - not just told i'm wrong from individual opinions).

    Of course once you bring D151 in the scenario changes a bit also since it's a dual purpose product - it polishes and waxes in one step. If you decide to top it with something else than you have really just defeated the entire purpose of the all-in-one one-step product. You might as well just grab a bottle of M205 or similar polish for the polish step and than apply what your ultimate choice is for the LSP.
    What am I, fly-paper for morons?

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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    I do agree with you Barry in the fact that topping 1 wax with another wax probably won't do much for the paint but my only concern is what wax is in d151? i dont know if it will be durable enough for the salty roads that i have to deal with on a daily basis. my truck is also a dd and is outside 24/7/365 days a year.

    i only thought of putting m16 or #26 on top for added protection not so much as gloss.

    if i were to do another coat of d151 should i just use a blue/black pad from LC and speed 3/4 or since im not really looking for more correction?

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    Re: D151 help (paging Tim Lingor)

    Some good information in this thread. Just a few notes:

    A step up in cutting power is Scratch X 2.0, not just Scratch X.... though it should be hard to find Scratch X any more but I've seen some stores still have it on the shelves. Scratch X 2.0 is just under Ultimate Compound in cutting power. Scratch X is much lower.

    If you go with UC, I'd recommend shaking the bottles before buying to sense if it seems like water or a lotion. You want it to sound/feel like a lotion. At least in my experience I was making 3 passes with the UC that was light water and accomplished the same in 1 pass with the UC that was light lotion.

    I'm not expert but I've found that using the DA on speed 6 causes the polish/compound to flash pretty quickly. I say "flash", as I think this means the liquid dries quickly and turns to dust. I've even noticed a difference between a 5.5 setting and 6. At least on my PC there is a noticeable difference between the dial being all the way up and just slightly down a hair.

    I noticed my 4" LC pads curled up as you mentioned but only after a few washes. I think this is because the hook and loop backing dried differently then the foam so it bows the pad a little. With just the slightest of pressure the pad should flatten out so I don't think it should be an issue.

    I'd recommend M16 on top of anything for a winter wax. M16 IMHO is a great, lasting product for those times when you won't be able to wax every few months. It does not contain any polishes so it should not remove any sealants. I also use it in my metal wheel wells and I don't remove it after applied.

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