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Thread: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

          
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    Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    I use D155 PRC a lot - it's my standard "go-to" on my regular details that don't involve specific paint correction and I'm very pleased with the product.
    I have noticed in another thread that you have been using M80 for a long time and since I know you use and even reviewed D155 I was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving me a comparison between D155 vs M80.

    I'm not asking you to go out and do a side by side actual vehicle test but rather just based on your past usage and experience how you feel the D155 and M80 compare, their major differences, pro's and con's on each.
    I've never used M80 at all to know what's like although I'd guess the aggressiveness is higher on the D155

    Thanks in advance on any feedback on this
    What am I, fly-paper for morons?

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    aka 2hotford Tim Lingor's Avatar
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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Hi Barry,

    I have used gallons of each and there are quite a few differences in each product.

    Meguiar's M80 Speed Glaze has been a staple of my detailing arsenal for many years and for good reason. It does a fantastic job of removing mild marring, and thanks to it having a high dose of TS Oils, it leaves a rich, deep finish. In the vast majority of cases, M80 can be the final step before the LSP as it finishes down so nicely. However, in some cases a finer polish like M82 or M09 or M205 may be required to get the finish to its maximum potential. Moreover, M80 unique paintable polymer makes M80 a safe product to use on fresh paint. Although newer products like M205 have come out with their SMAT's, M80 still has its place and I continue to use it often!

    In terms of application, whether by rotary or DA, M80 works wonderfully. Thanks to the large amount of TS Oils in the product, it gives a lot more "work" time with the rotary polisher. So whereas other products like M83can be a little difficult at times with the rotary, M80 does not dry that quickly. A side benefit of the longer working time means you can massage the finish, to bring out the deep gloss!

    With the DA, M80 can at times give you too much work time. If a person applies too much product, M80 can take a fair amount of time to break down. For the person new to detailing that may actually be good and bad. It is good as many newbies are unsure how long to work a product, so they keep working it until it breaks downs. Because of the length of the buffing time, the vast majority of mild marring will be gone as they have now worked the product properly. The bad part is that if you use too much product, it takes a long time to break it down, thereby causing to many inexperienced people to remove it too soon, and fully breaking down the product. They then proclaim that M80 did not work and then move on to a stronger product than what was actually required.


    Meguiar's D151 PRC is considered an all-in-one containing a cleaner/polish and wax. It is more aggressive than M83 DACP, but finishes down as nicely as M205. However, the biggest issue for D151 is in using the product properly in order to take advantage of the special SMAT abrasives in it. When I first used it, I used it more like a traditional diminishing abrasive product. When I did so, its cut was very mild and did not seem to be much stronger than M80. But after a brief learning curve, I discovered that by using more downward pressure, and working the SMAT's until the lubrication just begins to dry, the cut of D151 is substantially more than M80 and a little more than M83. When worked correctly, in *most* cases the D151 finishes down to a beautiful, micro-marring free finish. However, in some cases especially on soft paint, the D151 may not finish down haze free and a follow up with another product may be necessary.

    In terms of application, this is where D151 separates itself from other products. I have found D151 to work extremely well with either the rotary or DA. However, when using the D151's SMAT with a rotary a far more aggressive cut can be obtained compared to using a DA. With the DA, D151 can remove very mild marring thereby finishing out beautifully. This is where many get confused and state that D151's cut is similar to M205 when in fact, it is far greater. The application method makes a huge differnce and more so with D151 than many other products. Obviously, with a rotary a product will remove more marring. But with D151 and the rotary, far more work can be achieved. What that means to me is that a person may use D151 with the rotary to remove moderate marring and then follow it with D151 and the DA to bring out that deep rich shine! This can be a major time and money saver as you are using only one product, and using the same pads simply switching one from the rotary to the DA as you are using the same product!

    In the end, you can do more with D151 simply by using the rotary and DA than you can with M80. However, D151 contains a wax and is not body shop safe meaning that you can not use it on fresh paint where with M80 you can. Therefore, in my opinion a person needs both products, hence the reason I use both so often. They are both unique and while similar paint correction can be achieved with the two products and a DA, the D151 will far surpass M80 when used with the rotary polisher.

    I hope that helps!

    Tim

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    aka 2hotford Tim Lingor's Avatar
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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Whoa, that is weird, it posted it twice!

    Tim

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    Pro/Marine/RV Product Manager Mark Kleis's Avatar
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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Lingor View Post
    Whoa, that is weird, it posted it twice!

    Tim
    Poof! I don't see the double post anymore
    Meguiar's Professional, Marine/RV Global Product Manager
    My ride: 2014 Ford Focus ST, 6 Speed, Race Red
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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Tim
    as I'm used to from your responses your answer was very detailed and helpful..... I hate to say at this point though that once I read your entire response and I was confused because I realized I made a major typo in my initial post/question.

    I was actually interested in a comparison between the D1555 and the M20, not the M80 and I didn't realize I had typed M80 in my first post until I was reading your detailed answer.
    My mistake and I apologive for that.
    It's still excellent information.

    The reason I originally posted and MEANT to ask for comparison/differences between D155 and M20 is that the D155 is an excellent all-in-one product that I've used a lot and i'm very familiar with.
    I've never used M20 but understand it's also an all-in-one product as a paint cleaner/sealant.
    It's this comparison between the two AIO products I was interested in. I'm wondering if it's worth adding the M20 to my "arsenal" or just staying with the D155.

    Not that it makes much difference since it's NOT also an AIO product but I do use a lot of the M21 also and I like it which it what makes me curious about the M20.

    Again, I'm very sorry about my previous typo that caused you to makes such a great response but to the wrong question
    What am I, fly-paper for morons?

  6. #6
    aka 2hotford Tim Lingor's Avatar
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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Quote Originally Posted by BarryK View Post
    Tim
    as I'm used to from your responses your answer was very detailed and helpful..... I hate to say at this point though that once I read your entire response and I was confused because I realized I made a major typo in my initial post/question.

    I was actually interested in a comparison between the D1555 and the M20, not the M80 and I didn't realize I had typed M80 in my first post until I was reading your detailed answer.
    My mistake and I apologive for that.
    It's still excellent information.

    The reason I originally posted and MEANT to ask for comparison/differences between D155 and M20 is that the D155 is an excellent all-in-one product that I've used a lot and i'm very familiar with.
    I've never used M20 but understand it's also an all-in-one product as a paint cleaner/sealant.
    It's this comparison between the two AIO products I was interested in. I'm wondering if it's worth adding the M20 to my "arsenal" or just staying with the D155.

    Not that it makes much difference since it's NOT also an AIO product but I do use a lot of the M21 also and I like it which it what makes me curious about the M20.

    Again, I'm very sorry about my previous typo that caused you to makes such a great response but to the wrong question

    LOLOL No problem!

    I believe you actually mean D151?? Meguiar's D155 is the Last Touch Spray Detailer so I am guessing it is D151...

    If so, D151 and M20 are VERY different products. Meguiar's D151 as I outlined above is a strong cleaner wax while M20 is not.

    Meguiar's M20 Polymer Sealant is a polymer blend that has a slight cleaning ability, but no where near the strength of even a mild cleaner wax. As such, even using M20 over a pure polish like M07, while it may remove some of it, it will not remove enough to make a difference. So like I said, it has a mild cleaner in it but not like an actual cleaner wax.

    In terms of performance, M20 is outstanding and one product I have and continue to use for over 20+ years! Durability wise it will outlast D151 by far. So if you want the ultimate, use D151 for its cleaning properties and use M20 as the LSP.

    Tim

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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Yes, I meant D151.
    Geez, it's one of those days where I can't seem to type ANYTHING correct today... SIGH.
    Well, it's my 10th wedding anniversary today and I'm reading and typing posts quickly inbetween activities today with the wife as we are in and out of the house so excuse me if my mind is elsewhere. I usually try not to make as many mistakes in my posts!

    OK, basically you got to the gist of the answer I was looking for - M20 is nowhere near as aggressive of a product as D151 so to stay with an effective AIO I'm better to stay with the D151 that I'm use to and since the cleaning abilities of M20 are so mild it's basically only really effective as a LSP rather than a true AIO.

    I've never used M20 but I use M21 quite a lot as a LSP. If M20 is such a mild cleaner than it's effectively really only a LSP I might as well stick with the M21 I'm used to for a LSP unless the M20 has advantages over the M21 I'm not aware of.
    What am I, fly-paper for morons?

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    aka 2hotford Tim Lingor's Avatar
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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Quote Originally Posted by BarryK View Post
    Yes, I meant D151.
    Geez, it's one of those days where I can't seem to type ANYTHING correct today... SIGH.
    Well, it's my 10th wedding anniversary today and I'm reading and typing posts quickly inbetween activities today with the wife as we are in and out of the house so excuse me if my mind is elsewhere. I usually try not to make as many mistakes in my posts!

    OK, basically you got to the gist of the answer I was looking for - M20 is nowhere near as aggressive of a product as D151 so to stay with an effective AIO I'm better to stay with the D151 that I'm use to and since the cleaning abilities of M20 are so mild it's basically only really effective as a LSP rather than a true AIO.

    I've never used M20 but I use M21 quite a lot as a LSP. If M20 is such a mild cleaner than it's effectively really only a LSP I might as well stick with the M21 I'm used to for a LSP unless the M20 has advantages over the M21 I'm not aware of.
    M20 does have one major advantage however, it works extremely well in cooler temperatures. Moreover, the chance of it streaking is incredibly small. Both M21 and M20 have their advantages and you need try both to see which one suits you best.

    Tim

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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Lingor View Post
    M20 does have one major advantage however, it works extremely well in cooler temperatures. Moreover, the chance of it streaking is incredibly small. Both M21 and M20 have their advantages and you need try both to see which one suits you best.

    Tim
    I've never had issues with M21 streaking on me but as you say you never know how well a product may or may not work for you until you try it. I should get a small size of the M20 to at least try sometime.

    I'm not one that usually has to have 20 different waxes and sealants, 10 different compounds and 12 polishes, and half a dozen glazes all on my shelf to choose from. I know many people like to try and experiment and have a huge selection of products to grab but I tend to work differently. I usually prefer to find one or two products in whatever category that I find I like for whatever reason (usually because of a combination of the product working well and effectively, works easily without major issues or problems, and is cost effective) and I stick to it.
    I mean, it's good to have the range you need to get the work done correctly but why need 20 products of range in any category...
    I tend to follow Mike Phillips favorite saying of find a product you like and use it often. That's always worked for me.

    Thanks for the info - as always your replies were very helpful and informative and i appreciate the time you spent responding back to me, especially after you had to do it twice because of my initial typo mess up (sorry about that again!)
    What am I, fly-paper for morons?

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    Registered Member seth1066's Avatar
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    Re: Hey, Tim Lingor - ??? for you please (or one of the Meg's Mike's)

    Excellent comparison write up, Tim. I learn something new every time I get on here.

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