Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

The PC orbits in between 2,500-6,800 orbits per minute.

The G110v2 orbits in between 1,800 - 6,800 rpm.

Just sayin'.

[Mr Miyagi]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

I liked the videos. I bought a PC several years ago after dumping one of those 'car buffers' you get for like $40. Complete waste of money. The PC is just as safe and does a far better job. I would love to learn a rotary but I'm not willing to sacrifice my paint learning the lessons...I'm also too lazy to buy a junk yard hood...The PC maintains the paint just fine so I never have many worries about severe correction

[Junkman2008]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

... Just share the link to the article, it's now a blue clickable link...


And here's the article...

The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story... by Mike Phillips

Keep up the good work Junkman!

That's exactly what I will do because if I started explaining all this in one of my videos, I'd fall asleep faster than the people watching!

Thanks for taking the time to do that write up. Kudos to you!

[TH0001]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

I remember this controversy, in fact I ended up writing an article about it and in the article I gave full credit to the person that finally tracked down the EXACT terminonlgy... it's called...

The Free Floating Spindle Assembly


I wrote an article about this and have posted it to the "Hot Topics" forum, if it's approved it will be there today and it explains the whole story about the mechanism unique to DA Polishers.

I don't remember there being any controversy, and was not aware, until reading the link, that you had also said that the PC has a clutch or that the action of the pad spinning independently was 'clutch like.' A free floating spindle assembly is really the opposite of a clutch, which I suppose is why there was some confusion.

[TH0001]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

I remember this controversy, in fact I ended up writing an article about it and in the article I gave full credit to the person that finally tracked down the EXACT terminonlgy... it's called...

The Free Floating Spindle Assembly

Thanks for clearing up the technical name for it. I will call it by it's correct name, although it basically acts as a clutched device. If I say clutched, people will understand a lot quicker as to what I'm talking about. The Free Floating Spindle Assembly will need a little more explanation!

This is problem with using the word clutch or clutch action anywhere near a dual-action polisher, not only is it incorrect, but it leads people to believe that there is a clutch inside the PC. What starts off as trying to explain a concept leads to people (who don't understand) posting on this forum and others that there is a clutch inside the Porter Cable.

A clutch would be useless inside a Porter Cable.

The Free Floating Spindle Device doesn't have any clutched action whatsoever, and it isn't the Free Floating Spindle Device that allows the Porter Cable to work, it is a simpler device... called a bearing.

The bearing is what allows the pad to spin freely of the orbit, and it is physics which causes the pad to want to spin because of the orbit. Unless you are saying that physics itself is acting like a clutch (which it isn't) or you are going to say that a bearing is acting like a clutch (again it isn't) then there is no point in mentioning a clutch at all.

Perhaps a better statement would simply to say "There is a bearing in the Porter Cable that allows the pad to spin freely of the orbit, which is why it is safer". The reason this is a better statement (IMO) is because most people can understand a bearing (far more understand a bearing then the workings of a clutch) and it is 100% accurate where as any mention to a clutch is 100% inaccurate. Even better is that you could mention this in your videos as easily as mentioning there is a clutch, and not put anybody to sleep

In fact Free Floating Spindle Assemblies are not unique to DA polishers, they are what allow use to peddle a bicycle. The bearing is what keeps the peddle to stay flat to the ground while orbiting around the axle.

In fact, if you have a bicycle, prop up the drive wheel and start peddling it very quickly. The peddle on the opposite side will start to rotate in the same direction you are peddling (if there isn't too much drag on the bearing). This is exactly the same concept with a DA polisher, and nobody would say the peddle is spinning because of a clutch.

[Junkman2008]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

I don't remember there being any controversy, and was not aware, until reading the link, that you had also said that the PC has a clutch or that the action of the pad spinning independently was 'clutch like.' A free floating spindle assembly is really the opposite of a clutch, which I suppose is why there was some confusion.

I don't think that anyone is going to get a degree in the engineering and operation of the PC so describing it as "clutch like" is a lot simpler and gets the point across better than going into a bunch of detail of exactly what is going on. What weekend warrior wants to know that much detail? The important thing to the weekend warrior is that the polisher is safe for a novice. They could care less if it uses a free floating spindle assembly or a flux capacitor.

This is what takes the fun out of detailing for the weekend warrior. Way to much info. That's why my videos roll the way they do. For me, it's about keeping it fun and getting positive results in your garage.

[Shawn T.]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

This is problem with using the word clutch or clutch action anywhere near a dual-action polisher, not only is it incorrect, but it leads people to believe that there is a clutch inside the PC. What starts off as trying to explain a concept leads to people (who don't understand) posting on this forum and others that there is a clutch inside the Porter Cable.

A clutch would be useless inside a Porter Cable.

The Free Floating Spindle Device doesn't have any clutched action whatsoever, and it isn't the Free Floating Spindle Device that allows the Porter Cable to work, it is a simpler device... called a bearing.

The bearing is what allows the pad to spin freely of the orbit, and it is physics which causes the pad to want to spin because of the orbit. Unless you are saying that physics itself is acting like a clutch (which it isn't) or you are going to say that a bearing is acting like a clutch (again it isn't) then there is no point in mentioning a clutch at all.

Perhaps a better statement would simply to say "There is a bearing in the Porter Cable that allows the pad to spin freely of the orbit, which is why it is safer". The reason this is a better statement (IMO) is because most people can understand a bearing (far more understand a bearing then the workings of a clutch) and it is 100% accurate where as any mention to a clutch is 100% inaccurate. Even better is that you could mention this in your videos as easily as mentioning there is a clutch, and not put anybody to sleep

In fact Free Floating Spindle Assemblies are not unique to DA polishers, they are what allow use to peddle a bicycle. The bearing is what keeps the peddle to stay flat to the ground while orbiting around the axle.

In fact, if you have a bicycle, prop up the drive wheel and start peddling it very quickly. The peddle on the opposite side will start to rotate in the same direction you are peddling (if there isn't too much drag on the bearing). This is exactly the same concept with a DA polisher, and nobody would say the peddle is spinning because of a clutch.

I don't think that anyone is going to get a degree in the engineering and operation of the PC so describing it as "clutch like" is a lot simpler and gets the point across better than going into a bunch of detail of exactly what is going on. What weekend warrior wants to know that much detail? The important thing to the weekend warrior is that the polisher is safe for a novice. They could care less if it uses a free floating spindle assembly or a flux capacitor.

This is what takes the fun out of detailing for the weekend warrior. Way to much info. That's why my videos roll the way they do. For me, it's about keeping it fun and getting positive results in your garage.

I can see where both of you are coming from. I personally, see no harm in calling the action 'clutch-like' as long as the person reading understands the idea that applied pressure slows the spinning of the pad. As long as this is understood, any weekend warrior (including me) or a physics major (again including me) would be happy when using this machine.

Awesome job explaining the true nature though Tom.

[TH0001]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

[QUOTE=Junkman2008;428513]I don't think that anyone is going to get a degree in the engineering and operation of the PC so describing it as "clutch like" is a lot simpler and gets the point across better than going into a bunch of detail of exactly what is going on. [QUOTE]

Two problems.. It isn't clutch like, it is bearing like. I agree that going into a bunch of detail for most is pointless (because they don't care) but I think misinforming them is worse.

Also, on this forum and others you have said that a PC has a clutch, which is far different then saying there is a clutch like action. Both are incorrect.

Why not just state that their is a bearing that allows the pad to spin freely of the orbit? It is simpler to understand then a clutch (which most people don't understand) and most importantly is is correct.

What weekend warrior wants to know that much detail? The important thing to the weekend warrior is that the polisher is safe for a novice. They could care less if it uses a free floating spindle assembly or a flux capacitor.

Correct, but let's not defend using misinformation as necessary to educating the average user.

Again, keep it simple but keep it correct is all I am saying. "It has a bearing that allows the pad to spin freely. This makes it safer to use then a rotary because a rotary forces the pad to spin."

This is accurate, simple, and correct.

It is far better (IMO) then saying there is a clutch in the PC or saying there is a clutch like action. Most people don't how a clutch works, and could care less about a clutch or a flux capaciter, like you said. If we choose to mention something, we have a responsible to make sure it is accurate, if we mention it at all.

This is what takes the fun out of detailing for the weekend warrior. Way to much info. That's why my videos roll the way they do. For me, it's about keeping it fun and getting positive results in your garage.

I like the way you do your videos as well However, I think what takes the fun out of weekend warriors is all the misinformation they are given by people who are trying to be helpful... But that's not what this whole debate is about is it...?

You said a PC has a clutch, I tried to help you (like you help others).

Then you changed your tune and now said that it has a clutch like action (and despite questioning me how it could possibly work with out a clutch, you seem to know take the stance that you kinda new that it really didn't have a clutch)which it doesn't. It is even simpler then that, it's just a bearing. I don't look at you like a beginner, so I explained in detail why how it works.

Now you are dismissing information that I tried to share with you because it isn't helpful to a beginner? Maybe, but it is far better then sharing them with that a PC has a clutch then back peddling by saying its okay to say things that are incorrect because the average person wouldn't understand the correct way (even though the correct answer is easier to explain).

I'm not going to argue this point anymore. I think you do a great job job of helping beginners get started in detailing, and I have tried to share with you the correct information so you could use your ability to explain it in an easier to use manner. If you want to insist it has a clutch, or there is some clutch like action, then that's your prerogative. Best of luck!

Todd

[gmitch23]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

i think we are getting way too technical, the junkman is speaking in dummy terms so that every skill level will understand. i think he is owed an apology because he took the time to do that whole video and then we spend pages of comments arguing "to clutch or not to clutch" He has helped me learn more in three of his videos that i've learned in a month. thank you junkman

[TH0001]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

i i think he is owed an apology because he took the time to do that whole video and then we spend pages of comments arguing "to clutch or not to clutch"

I have only tried to help educate a fellow detailer on how a machine works, why should I apologize? Sorry for attempting to clear up a question (that was asked of me)...

Then explain why as you add pressure to the PC, the rotation of the pad decreases? The orbital action continues but the rotation speed of the pad is totally dependant upon the pressure you apply. That is a clutched action.

[Junkman2008]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

i think we are getting way too technical, the junkman is speaking in dummy terms so that every skill level will understand. i think he is owed an apology because he took the time to do that whole video and then we spend pages of comments arguing "to clutch or not to clutch" He has helped me learn more in three of his videos that i've learned in a month. thank you junkman

That's my whole intent. Make it fun, make it easy. Detailing is my "me" time. It is therapeutic and a passion for me. Just me and the car on a quiet summer day. Others have expressed the same passion to me and have asked for advice. Teaching is something I have always been able to do. I love keeping it simple. That's why I use the products that I use in my videos. The line is not extensive enough to get a novice confused. There are plenty of products on the market that I could and do personally use to get the same results (Meguiar's Mirror Glaze line included), but you can't argue with a color coded system. That's Marine proof! That I know from experience.

Thanks for watching gmitch.

[gmitch23]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

I have only tried to help educate a fellow detailer on how a machine works, why should I apologize? Sorry for attempting to clear up a question (that was asked of me)...

I wont get into this with you publicly. I have sent a private message. No one needs to apologize to him, i arleady have. Everyone on this forum thus far have been great, knowledgable, helpful guys. That, along with Meg's products, is why i'm on here everyday.

[David Fermani]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

i think we are getting way too technical, the junkman is speaking in dummy terms so that every skill level will understand. i think he is owed an apology because he took the time to do that whole video and then we spend pages of comments arguing "to clutch or not to clutch" He has helped me learn more in three of his videos that i've learned in a month. thank you junkman

Owed an applogy? That's hilarious. If anything Todd deserves a "Thank You" from a couple on people on this thread for clarifying the misinformation presented. I guess they don't feel too humbled? I fully support being as technically oriented as possible when discussing technical operations such as these. Even with my experience I'm able to understand the bearing concept clearer than the cluth one. Probably because it's more accurate.

As far as the original topic of this thread, yes, DA polishers are pretty safe, but caution should still be used. It's not idiot proof and when used with products like M105/5 inch cutting pads doing heavy defect removal or isolated scratch removal, it can and will burn through paint. Certainly not as fast as a rotary, but it can.

[Shawn T.]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

Owed an applogy? That's hilarious. If anything Todd deserves a "Thank You" from a couple on people on this thread for clarifying the misinformation presented. I guess they don't feel too humbled? I fully support being as technically oriented as possible when discussing technical operations such as these. Even with my experience I'm able to understand the bearing concept clearer than the cluth one. Probably because it's more accurate.

As far as the original topic of this thread, yes, DA polishers are pretty safe, but caution should still be used. It's not idiot proof and when used with products like M105/5 inch cutting pads doing heavy defect removal or isolated scratch removal, it can and will burn through paint. Certainly not as fast as a rotary, but it can.

How about an apology and a thank you?

No need to be angry or snippy. Let's all just have fun!

[Fly Bye]

Re: Is the Dual-Action Polisher Safe?

No one needs to apologize to him

The Junkmans videos convey basics to the introduction of car detailing. He gets his point across very well

I don't think anyone was undermining the videos, some folks (myself included) simply pointed out that the PC does not, infact have a clutch. The PC may seem clutch like, but it does not have a clutch.

It's one thing to "keep it simple", but giving mis-information is another. Myself, as well as other(s) simply pointed out how this machine actually works.

It's not actually that complicated or technical


Carry on men (and women )