Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

[Expertcarpetcare]

Back in the day, everyone used Armor All for vinyl and tires on a vehicle. After the first year of professional car cleaning we had numerous concerns about the use of this product on their vehicles. I was told because it is "silicone based" which leaves a "greasy" finish on the vinyl and the oils attract dust on the tires causing them to go brown. Many customers also told horror stories about how older vinyl would literally crack and fall apart after a heavy application of this product. We had to stop using it professionally before anything like this could happen.

I'm not trying to bash Armor all here, but meguiars Vinyl Cleaner was the answer, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I was told the meguiars is ****** based rather than silicone. The new product cleaned, and left a "like new" finish and fresh vinyl "new car" type smell. It also works magificently on tires because it makes the rubber clean and new looking without leaving them shiny or greasy. The product also seems to "repel" dust and we have tested by driving down a dusty back road after cleaning, the tires stayed black!

The moral of this story, and I post it here to make sure my facts are correct since I am a cleaner, not a chemist, that we are comparing a silicone based cleaner to a ****** based cleaner. Comments?

[cnfowler]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

One question - what's the deal with the ********? I'm assuming you're talking about a water-based cleaner, but water is 5 letters, not the 6 as indicated by ******. I'm confused.

Colin

[Expertcarpetcare]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

For some reason the word Tef.lon is censored here.

[xantonin]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

Really? ****** is censored? That doesn't seem like something I can see Meguiar's doing...

Edit: Oh my! It is!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

There's actually a lot of myth going on in the first post here, and they are quite common.

Silicone based - this is a misnomer as many products contain silicone, and they are usually water based. This includes Armor All products. There is nothing at all wrong with silicone as this is an inert ingredient that is designed to enhance or modify a characteristic of another ingredient. Generally they are used to enhance gloss, ease application or flow of a product, or make wipe off easier. The only time silicones are a problem at all is when they are used in an environment where fresh paint is being sprayed. Even a very tiny bit of silicone that lands on a prepped surface will cause fisheyes when the paint is sprayed over it. Understandably then, body shops don't want waxes, tire dressings or vinyl dressings in their facility. But products like Meguiar's M39 Heavy Duty Vinyl Cleaner and Silicone Free Dressing are indeed silicone free and therefore safe in that environment.

Otherwise, most all Meguiar's dressings, whether for tires, interior or exterior vinyl, rubber and plastic, will contain some level of silicone. We once got into a discussion on another forum about which dressing to use on the dash of the cars. Of course there were as many product recommendations as there were responses, but one individual was adamant about using a "water based" product and not a "silicone based" one since those silicone things would rot the dash. Uh-huh. He further stated that he had been using ONLY Brand-X for the last 5 years on his dash, monthly applications in fact, and his dash still looked like new. Proof positive, to him at least, that silicone was horrible and water based was the way to go. Well, we had a sneaking suspicion that the product he mentioned (a well respected and fairly expensive "boutique" type product) probably contained some silicone. So, making fair use of the Interwebs we sought out the website of the manufacturer in question and pulled up the MSDS on the product. Well, not only does it contain silicone, but it contains about twice as much as Meguiar's Natural Shine does!!! That isn't good, bad or otherwise. It just is. Naturally we posted this info back to that particular thread, but the guy never came back.

As for Armor All causing all those dash boards to crack and crumble, well, that isn't quite true either. Back in the 1970's or so, when Armor All first came to prominence, they really had zero competition in that market. The quality of vinyl and plastics used back then weren't all that great either. Over time these materials would become brittle, and repeated temperature extremes would cause something akin to material fatigue quite similar to metal fatigue. You know how you can bend a paper clip back and forth until it finally just breaks? That's metal fatigue, and the same concept applied to these older vinyls and plastics. But these materials are also somewhat absorbent due to their porous nature. So, when the fatigue and/or get dried out - basically when they've become brittle - adding virtually any liquid to them in any volume will cause them to swell. And then crack. Not the fault of the product being applied to it.

Tire browning, technically "blooming", is a function of the anti ozonant component blended into the tire during the manufacturing process. This material is designed to leech to the surface when the tire is in motion and under load. In the RV industry there are recommendations regarding tire replacement based on age, not mileage. That's because many RVs sit idle for extended periods so these anti ozonants don't have the opportunity to migrate to the surface. A tire rated for long tread life will generally contain more anti ozonants than a performance tire rated for a short tread life. Left to accumulate on the sidewall, these anti ozonants will have a brown coloration to them. Now apply a tire dressing with some cleaning ability and that brown color is brought to the surface. Heck, just the act of cleaning a high anti ozonant content tire will cause all kinds of brown gunk to wash off the sidewall!

In any event, while the majority of our dressings are water based and almost all of them contain some degree of silicone, none of our products contain the DuPont PTFE product.

[JimboB5]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

Michael, you're the bomb; thanks for the info regarding dressings... learn something every day on MOL.

[xantonin]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

So, making fair use of the Interwebs we sought out the website of the manufacturer in question and pulled up the MSDS on the product.

Haha, interwebs. You guys are awesome. I almost want to question what forums Meguiar's employees visit aside from this one.

As for Armor All causing all those dash boards to crack and crumble, well, that isn't quite true either. [...] Not the fault of the product being applied to it.

This is interesting information and makes sense. I've never really seen a modern dash board crack.

Good information about the tires too.

none of our products contain the DuPont PTFE product.

What is that product?

Also, what's with ****** being censored?

[Expertcarpetcare]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

Thanks very much for the post Mike. Although I cannot agree on every level, it is good to clear up the nature of silicone content. Regardless, I need to learn as much as i can so I know what to tell my customers when they ask such questions.

So I can no longer tell them that Armor all is silicone based and Meguiars is tef.lon based.
However, I can tell them that the Meguiars leaves a clean, non greasy, new-like finish.
I still love using it on tires and havent seen a brown tire since I started using it, but Armor all, wet n black, and all those other tire oils they come back brown every time. That makes customers NOT come back

[cnfowler]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

The DuPont PTFE product Mr. Stoops was referring to is Tef.lon.

[Expertcarpetcare]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

Actually I think he meant a particular ingredient in Dupont tef.lon products which there was some concern by certain study groups that it "may" contain a carcinogenic ingredient. The study actually panned out as inconclusive but the damage had been done. This was a big hooplah in the media some time ago and customers still ask about it and are nervous of protectants of any kind ever since. So I think Mike is trying to say that that ingredient is not in the Meguiars product.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

Actually I think he meant a particular ingredient in Dupont tef.lon products which there was some concern by certain study groups that it "may" contain a carcinogenic ingredient. The study actually panned out as inconclusive but the damage had been done. This was a big hooplah in the media some time ago and customers still ask about it and are nervous of protectants of any kind ever since. So I think Mike is trying to say that that ingredient is not in the Meguiars product.

Yes and no. We've censored the word tef.lon (as you guys have so craftily put it) for a variety of reasons, partly because it's a trademarked word and can potentially cause some issues. Our use of "DuPont PTFE" was a direct reference to that product. It should be noted that no Meguiar's products contain DuPont PTFE or, um, tef.lon. Never have, and odds are they never will.

[Larry A]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

Since we are talking about vinyl and rubber protectants what is the difference between # 40 and Natural Shine ? which shines more? which has a cleaner in it ? is Natural Shine just the consumer line of #40?

[Tuck91]

Re: Silicone Vs ****** Protectants

Since we are talking about vinyl and rubber protectants what is the difference between # 40 and Natural Shine ? which shines more? which has a cleaner in it ? is Natural Shine just the consumer line of #40?

Natural Shine is going to be a tad bit glossier than M40. M40 is also going to have more cleaning and conditioning ability than Natural Shine.

Both are great products and I use both of them.