How much paint are you removing.

[tripper_11]

I just can't resist to ask you this and please give your very highly respected opinion on this one:

After the wool pad produced the swirls and hazing, you just jumped to DACP with W9000 finishing pad? I know the pictures doesn't do much justice, but is the finish really perfect upon actually viewing it (I mean did the swirls disappear)?

I'm asking this because if the answer is in the affirmative, then there's no reason bridging the wool pad and the finishing pad with the W8000 polishing pad.

I'm awaiting your explanation on this one!


EDIT:

or the other way of asking it: could i jump directly from the W7000 cutting pad (with DACP) to W9000 finishing pad (with #80) to remove haze from W7000? then apply LSP by hand.

tnx again!

[wetlook]

I think he used a W-7000 pad (check the pic). Maybe it was a typo that nobody picked up on?

[Superior Shine]

I just bought my very own paint thickness gauge. I can't believe I have gone this long with just borrowing them.

I bought a used unit for $199 that is about $500 new.

I got it off ebay.

EBAY AUCTION

[PhilS]

This is probably not the time to point out that a device that can only measure to a resolution of 0.1mm will be, at best, accurate to about 0.1mm. Thus, when it shows a reading of 4.2mm that should be taken to mean anywhere within the range 4.15mm to 4.249999...mm (i.e. just a fraction under 4.25mm).

[rgilbert24]

Often wonderedho much clear coat I was removing with the DA and #80. Given your resulsts with using DACP - probably no much at all.
thanks for the information - very helpful.

[OCBen]

Great Forum. My first post here. Salutations to everyone.

With inputs from Mike Phillips of Meguiar's and Joe from Superior Shine, this is obviously an excellent thread, and it's the primary reason I decided to register.

I have experience in color-sanding orange peel off a brand new black Boxster. The procedure I followed was to basically sand off the "peaks" until they were level with the "valleys" and then buff to a shine. My concern is that I may have removed too much clear by following this basic principle, and may not have allowed sufficient remaining clear for future repair work, as Mike has pointed out in his postings.

Well, that car is sold, but I plan to color-sand my brand new Carrera which will be delivered at the end of the month. I think that this time I will just do a light sanding and not take the peaks down to the valleys (maybe half way if that could be possible to gage). The car's color is light grey and will not show orange peel as much as black does. Any suggestions here will be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Attached is a photo of the Boxster's rear lid.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by OCBen
Great Forum. My first post here. Salutations to everyone.

With inputs from Mike Phillips of Meguiar's and Joe from Superior Shine, this is obviously an excellent thread, and it's the primary reason I decided to register.

Thank you for the kind words.

I have experience in color-sanding orange peel off a brand new black Boxster. The procedure I followed was to basically sand off the "peaks" until they were level with the "valleys" and then buff to a shine. My concern is that I may have removed too much clear by following this basic principle, and may not have allowed sufficient remaining clear for future repair work, as Mike has pointed out in his postings.

This is a valid concern.

Well, that car is sold, but I plan to color-sand my brand new Carrera which will be delivered at the end of the month. I think that this time I will just do a light sanding and not take the peaks down to the valleys (maybe half way if that could be possible to gage). The car's color is light grey and will not show orange peel as much as black does. Any suggestions here will be greatly appreciated.

First, you might consider asking Joe to do this for you, if he will. Second, if Joe declines, I would highly recommend doing a Test Spot in one small area first before sanding down the entire car.

Find out if you can make one small area look good using your product choice and process before attempting to sand and buff the entire car.

Generally speaking, most factory finishes are hard as they are catalyzed and baked on at the factory. But... you never know until you test you system to one small area.

For a test spot, try using our Nikken #2000 grit Finishing Papers and then removing your sanding marks with either the

*W-7000 or W-7006 foam cutting pad with M84 Compound Power Cleaner
*W-4000 Wool Cutting Pad with M85 Diamond Cut Compound.

You could also experiment with #1500 grit and #2500 grit papers always using the least aggressive product to get the job done. I believe Joe also owns the Mirka Abralon System which goes to #4000 grit and because machine sanding does such a good job of flattening out the paint with lighter grit papers, this might be a good option.

Let's see what Joe has to say...

[Beercan31]

posted by Mike Phillips
Nice write-up Joe and very informative.

Originally posted by gb387
Very nice! Like all the info gives everyone a good understanding of what is going on. When you sand or apply product with a PC or rotary even foam or wool

posted by scrub
Great test and info. This did bring up a few of questions.

I'm being lazy and It's all been said before, except for WOW. If I'd only known then what I read now.

Questions:

1. If one were to go beyond the limit of the "Clear coat" but Clear coat failure or dulling have not occured can that complete panel be re-cleared with out going through the Primer, Paint, Clear coat process? The reason behind this question is "IF" I were to wet sand my clear coat to thin and re-cleared the panel would I still get the original clear coat to fail even though it was resurfaced?

2. Using your thickness gauge will you see deviation between the hood and fenders? Would the hood measure out at 4.2 mils and the fenders or other body parts be with in that measurement ? (+ or - a few mils.) or will the measurements be all over the place? (+ or- a lot of mils.)

Thanks

[rusty bumper]

WOW!......This is a great thread!

It seem's that foreign cars have thiner paint according to a chart I just saw.

Maybe that explains why my Toyota thinned out at the top.

************************************************

Question:

I noticed that the wool buffing pad had an opening in the middle that exposed the arbor shaft. Do you have to keep this type of pad slightly angled to the paint surface, or is it possible to buff with the pad flush to the paint (Like a PC)?

[OCBen]

Thanks a lot Mike. I really appreciate your inputs.

I suppose I might have been better off starting a thread by asking if anyone here has any experience in color-sanding a brand new factory finish for the purpose of removing orange peel, since most of the applications here seem to involve fresh paint that hasn't fully cured or hardened. But with yours and Joe's inputs I'm sure I'll get steered in the right direction.

Do either of you guys have experience in prepping a new car for an auto show? I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that new cars on display at auto shows have a far superior finish that those that come off the assembly line. My guess is that these cars have been color-sanded to get that mirror-like, smooth as glass finish. Well, that's the look I'm after. But I certainly don't want to remove too much paint to get there.

I don't plan on doing the entire car as I did with the Boxster, just the highly reflective areas like the rounded portions of the fenders and doors. Is that Nikken finishing paper better than the Unigrit? I'm not sure I'd want to go the Mirka machining route - sounds too risky. I'll wait for Joe's inputs and if it's something he wouldn't do even if the car were his, then maybe I'll just buff the entire car with a rotary polisher and be content with that, knowing that my paint removal was minimal.

[Superior Shine]

Questions:

1. If one were to go beyond the limit of the "Clear coat" but Clear coat failure or dulling have not occured can that complete panel be re-cleared with out going through the Primer, Paint, Clear coat process? The reason behind this question is "IF" I were to wet sand my clear coat to thin and re-cleared the panel would I still get the original clear coat to fail even though it was resurfaced?

YES, I have clear coated my share of factory finishes to either blend a repair job or to top flames or other graphics. All I do is clean the surface with grease and wax remover then sand it with 1000 grit paper.

2. Using your thickness gauge will you see deviation between the hood and fenders? Would the hood measure out at 4.2 mils and the fenders or other body parts be with in that measurement ? (+ or - a few mils.) or will the measurements be all over the place? (+ or- a lot of mils.)

Thanks [/B]

The thickness of the material will vary not just from panel to panel but also on different areas on the same panel. If you were going to measure 10 different places on a hood you will probably get 4 to 6 different readings.

[Superior Shine]

Originally posted by OCBen
Great Forum. My first post here. Salutations to everyone.

With inputs from Mike Phillips of Meguiar's and Joe from Superior Shine, this is obviously an excellent thread, and it's the primary reason I decided to register.

I have experience in color-sanding orange peel off a brand new black Boxster. The procedure I followed was to basically sand off the "peaks" until they were level with the "valleys" and then buff to a shine. My concern is that I may have removed too much clear by following this basic principle, and may not have allowed sufficient remaining clear for future repair work, as Mike has pointed out in his postings.

Well, that car is sold, but I plan to color-sand my brand new Carrera which will be delivered at the end of the month. I think that this time I will just do a light sanding and not take the peaks down to the valleys (maybe half way if that could be possible to gage). The car's color is light grey and will not show orange peel as much as black does. Any suggestions here will be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Attached is a photo of the Boxster's rear lid.

NO GUTS - NO GLORY !!

Color sanding your factory finish can (as you already know) safely be done. How aggressive you get will depend on the use of your vehicle. If a daily driver, I wouldn't do the sanding or do very little. If you plan to cruise it on weekends and/or enter it into car shows I would most defiantly do it.

Wait to see how your car looks. Light gray doesn’t show orange peel to badly.

[OCBen]

Originally posted by Superior Shine
NO GUTS - NO GLORY !!

Color sanding your factory finish can (as you already know) safely be done. How aggressive you get will depend on the use of your vehicle. If a daily driver, I wouldn't do the sanding or do very little. If you plan to cruise it on weekends and/or enter it into car shows I would most defiantly do it.

Wait to see how your car looks. Light gray doesn’t show orange peel to badly.

Thanks Joe. Good advice.

The Boxster was just that, a weekend car that I used to prep for occasional Concours shows. With only 7700 miles on the odometer after four years, that car spent most of the time as a garage queen under wraps.

Well, I don’t plan on entering shows with the new car once it comes in – I had my fill of that. And I do plan to make it my daily driver eventually. So I won’t be aggressive with the finish if I sand it at all. And you’re right, light grey metallic won’t show orange peel as bad as black does. Bit if there is a slight amount of visible orange peel, will buffing out with a rotary polisher make it not visible? I realize that buffing will only smooth out the orange peel and not flatten it, but if it’s barely visible to start with, maybe by a little smoothing will make it not so noticeable?

If I do decide to lightly sand in limited areas for the sake of “pre-flattening” prior to buffing, what Unigrit should I use on a factory finish, 3000?

[Superior Shine]

Skip 3000 and start with 2000.

[RamAirV1]

Is the orange peel in the clearcoat or base coat? If it's in the base coat there is nothing much you can do with that. I would think the only fix would be a repaint.

RamAirV1