The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

[sunvalleylaw]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Your plan generally sounds good.

I'm not familiar with the colors of GG pads, but I assume red is one of the softer ones for finishing / waxing? If so, then you're good to go!

Just remember to do a test spot first to see if your process is giving you the results you're after, before repeating on the whole car. If UC is taking care of the major defects, then you shouldn't need to buy M205. Just follow up with your UP.

VW's generally tend to have harder paint, but that's a generalisation. Every car is different - hence the importance of the test spot.

Thanks. That helps. And was my plan, but good to be reminded so I don't just start right in on the hood before trying a test patch. And yes, that is right, the Griot's red is called the waxing pad. the black the finishing pad, and the orange the corrective pad.

[BillE]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

what about the mirror shine hi tech yellow wax? Is that made for a rotary as well?

No problem...it's a wax. Hence application in independent on hand, or machine.

Bill

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Getting ready to work on the swirls on my Azera (weather finally cleared). UC with my 6" foam polishing pad (GG) and the HF D/A will most likely take care of the hood, trunk and roof. Was able to correct the door panels with the mirror glaze. And I will post some photos this time. Thanks guys (and gals)!!! Hyundai vehicles have hard paint. Which I found out when the paint laughed at my feeble first try. Live and learn.

[Tempest]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

This has been a very informative thread.

I come from a wood and metal working background. These industries use abrasives that are clearly defined as to their cut. It is very frustrating looking at car detailing abrasives and having no real idea as to what a product is capable of or how aggressive it is supposed to be. It's one of the main reasons I've yet to get into paint correction.

Even knife sharpening stones are graded by grit. It must be in the overall industry's best interest not to standardize these things and rely on marketing to move their product.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

This has been a very informative thread.

I come from a wood and metal working background. These industries use abrasives that are clearly defined as to their cut. It is very frustrating looking at car detailing abrasives and having no real idea as to what a product is capable of or how aggressive it is supposed to be. It's one of the main reasons I've yet to get into paint correction.

Even knife sharpening stones are graded by grit. It must be in the overall industry's best interest not to standardize these things and rely on marketing to move their product.

Part of the problem with trying to nail down a true measurement of cut with any liquid is that there are so many variables with regard to the use of said liquid.

Just take M105 as an example: We have a cut scale on our Mirror Glaze Professional compounds and polishes, but that number is when the product is used as most generally intended. In the case of M105, that is in a body shop environment with a rotary polisher and a wool cutting pad. But what happens to the cut when you use it with a less aggressive tool, like a DA polisher? Is it a high torque DA like the MT300, or a weaker tool like an old school Porter Cable 7424? Or is it a tall stroke tool like a Rupes Bigfoot 21? Maybe a direct drive tool like the Flex 3401? And then how do you use that polisher? What speed setting? What amount of pressure? And what pad are you using it with? The variables are almost endless.

When looking at wood working you obviously have different hardness of wood - pine versus oak versus mahagony - in different metals in metal working - aluminum, steel, stainless steel, copper, etc - but when working with paint the variables are, again, seemingly endless. Not only do factory paints display an enormous range of hardness, softness, touch sensitivity, etc but after market paints just expand that range. And with aftermarket paints, the painter can alter the characteristics of the paint depending on how he mixes it. Plus, paints can change as they age, just adding to the variables.

[Tempest]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

A well written and argued post as usual, Michael.

However, most of those variables exist in the other fields. The type and power of sander, as you say wood hardness, open coat vs. closed coat sandpaper...etc.

Having a grit number gives a firm point of reference to the user as to how to proceed under the given conditions. Is 100 cutting too fast or coarse? Move to 120 or 150 etc.

This cannot be easily done with paint correction products, especially across different brands or lines.

Working time, ease of use, lack of dusting....these are much harder to define. But I don't think it unreasonable for the customer to know what level of material removal to expect from a product when they buy it.

(Not trying to beat up on Meguiar's products. This seems to be pervasive across the industry.)

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Getting ready to work on the swirls on my Azera (weather finally cleared). UC with my 6" foam polishing pad (GG) and the HF D/A will most likely take care of the hood, trunk and roof. Was able to correct the door panels with the mirror glaze. And I will post some photos this time. Thanks guys (and gals)!!! Hyundai vehicles have hard paint. Which I found out when the paint laughed at my feeble first try. Live and learn.

Update: Didn't work on the finish last time I posted because the weather turned foul again.

Will tackle it today with the HF D/A polisher (Chicago Electric brand, if anyone cares), GG foam polishing pad and UC.

Thinking that I can go straight to UW after.

Will figure out photos.

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Update: Didn't work on the finish last time I posted because the weather turned foul again.

Will tackle it today with the HF D/A polisher (Chicago Electric brand, if anyone cares), GG foam polishing pad and UC.

Thinking that I can go straight to UW after.

Will figure out photos.

UC got most of the swirl marks out with one application. Had to use the highest speed with the DA and heavy pressure, but it worked.

after UW looks good.

Will go with UC again the next time.

[The Guz]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Glad you got most of it. The remaining defects could be RIDS

Will go with UC again the next time.

I am going to recommend a test spot with the least aggressive polish and pad before you proceed next time. Compounds are more aggressive, meaning it is removing more paint that a polish.

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Glad you got most of it. The remaining defects could be RIDS



I am going to recommend a test spot with the least aggressive polish and pad before you proceed next time. Compounds are more aggressive, meaning it is removing more paint that a polish.

Great idea Guz, thanks!

I reveal my ignorance--what is RIDS?

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Great idea Guz, thanks!

I reveal my ignorance--what is RIDS?

Found it: Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

These aren't--just leftover swirl marks. They are much less noticeable than before though.

Amazing that the dealer offered to 'fix' the finish, when they were the ones who created the flaws.

Can probably get them out with UP on the foam polishing pad, again with heavy pressure at highest setting.

Paint is hard--very hard.

The nicest benefit is that the metallic sparkles in the paint are now visible, when before they were masked by the swirl marks.

I did bump the post holding the awning over my parking spot, left a narrow scratch on the bumper which I'll fix with touchup paint and polish. Didn't go all the way through to the plastic.

That will be later this spring the next time I do a full detail.

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

I did my whole car with scratchx 2, it came out good

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

I did my whole car with scratchx 2, it came out good

Good for you. Did you do it by hand or with a machine?

[billddrummer]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Found it: Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

These aren't--just leftover swirl marks. They are much less noticeable than before though.

Amazing that the dealer offered to 'fix' the finish, when they were the ones who created the flaws.

Can probably get them out with UP on the foam polishing pad, again with heavy pressure at highest setting.

Paint is hard--very hard.

The nicest benefit is that the metallic sparkles in the paint are now visible, when before they were masked by the swirl marks.

I did bump the post holding the awning over my parking spot, left a narrow scratch on the bumper which I'll fix with touchup paint and polish. Didn't go all the way through to the plastic.

That will be later this spring the next time I do a full detail.

Update: Part I--Went to a body shop to get an estimate on the post bump. After looking at it, the body guy said "the paint looks fine, I have some compound to get rid of the paint transfer." With that, he came back with something which I couldn't identify, and removed the transferred paint from the bumper. Now there's only a small chip which I can easily fix with touchup paint.

Update: Part II

Did clay, UP and UPW last weekend. Noticed there are still some swirl marks that I missed from using UC the last time. Question: What path should I take now?

1. Hit it again with UC, knowing that's a relatively aggressive solution to something 95% of people won't ever notice?
2. Do another treatment with UP?
3. Leave it? (I consider the finish at about 85% of where I want it.)

Thanks!

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

Good for you. Did you do it by hand or with a machine?

i did it with a da, ive since gone over it with m205 ultra finishing polish, im debating on using ultimate compound on iy now then finishing with 205 during my vaca in 3 weeks but its a 2014 so its prob overkill. i do have isolated defects i want to remove, ive already wet sanded sucsefully so ill prob do it again