washing harms asphalt??

[rc70scoupe]

Hello,
I am new to the Forum, and I need help and information.

I live in a 19 detached town-home private community, with a Association.

The Board has just put in writing that no car washing is allowed in front of your home!!

The reasons are
1)that with or without using soap, (such as a Meguiar's product) car washing HARMS the asphalt!!
2) that the dirt from the car and soap goes into the drains and harms the
oceans
3) the City of San Clemente does not allow car washing.

I know that all 3 are lies. I NEVER thought in my life I would have to appeal to 2 MEN on the Board that car washing is okay.

All info/feedback is appreciated. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but I have to be right on all 3 points.

Please tell me where to look up the info to show the Board

Thank You

Ray

[bmrfan]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

Ray,

#1 - (LOL) I really doubt washing your car (aka getting the asphalt wet) causes instantaneous damage to the asphalt.
#2 - Some truth to "dirt" from car washing polluting the ocean. Oil / Coolant from our cars (or drive-way) will get washed down into the storm drains and will most likely discharge into the ocean.
#3 - San Clemente allows "individual" car washing - here's a link:

http://ci.san-clemente.ca.us/sc/Org/Dept/Engineering/WaterQ/wq.htm#DISCHARGE

BTW - I used to live in Santa Monica where "individual" car washing is illegal so there are cities in California with such laws.

[Turanga Leela]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

It was my understanding that soap runoff from car washing wasn't good for the ocean either. Since it drains straight to the ocean, there's no water treatment plant in between.

[roushstage2]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

1. I don't know that water and biodegradable car soap will harm asphalt, at all. I'm not an expert in the area though.
2. Well, you are washing brake dust, dirt, and possibly grease and oil off of the car along with any chemicals you may use to help clean said cars, which will go into the drain.
3. Some cities have water restrictions (not that unusual), which prohibit car washing as it isn't a necessity in life, where as having water for drinking, bathing, plumbing and so on is. If there isn't a restriction, then it sounds like they are just trying to push their "law" even more.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

This can be a really tough one to fight, and HOA's in general can be really tough to fight!! Plus, if the City of San Clemente doesn't allow car washing at all (are you absolutely positive about that?) then battling the HOA is a waste of time as this won't be their rule, but a city ordinance that they may have to enforce.

For the record, however, all of our car wash soaps are biodegradable and washing with them shouldn't do any more damage to the asphalt than a typical rainfall. What you wash off the car is no different than what gets washed off the roads and into the storm drains every time it rains - but nobody ever seems to consider that.

We can certainly understand a HOA not wanting people to do heavy engine degreasing on the street, but a regular old wash shouldn't have any real impact at all. Besides, how dirty do cars really get here in SoCal? It doesn't rain all that much for them to get dirty in the first place.

But none of this matters if the City doesn't allow it.

What you can do, however, is roll the car in the garage and use a no rinse wash product. That should keep the HOA and the city happy.

[rc70scoupe]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

Thanks to all for the FAST replies!!

bmrfan, THANKS for the link.
The City of San Clemente does allow "individual residential car washing"
They ask that you use "bidegradeable, phosphate-free soap".

Mr Stoops., thank for letting us know in writing that the soaps are biodegradeable!! ashing will do no more harm than a rainfall.
Are they "phosphate free"?

I understand that washing a car does have drawbacks to the environment. I am responsible when I do this.

I really feel that the monthly, or 2X that month if it does rain, really has a VERY minimal impact on the oceans. After all, when it rains, the same dirt goes into the same drains.

I brought up that the washing of the car keeps the asphalt clean of all debris.
The front of the house looks better as a result.
I use a nozzle, never have unintended run-off. Never degrease my motor or suspension.

I will be bring these points up in writing to the Board. Keep you informed.

Thank you

[SSMUFF]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

I am sure eating beef has more of a impact on the earth then washing your car.

[cnfowler]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

Good luck with that, Ray. HOAs are ridiculously powerful and have some of the dumbest rules I've ever seen. I was a Trooper in South Florida. We were looking to purchase a home. Many of the associations wouldn't allow me to park my marked patrol car in the driveway of my own home. I said I'd follow their rules if they paid my mortgage. They didn't agree and we didn't buy.

Colin

[FinalTouchDetail]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

I suggest using Optimum No Rinse and Chemical Guys Go-Green Waterless Wash.

Use ONR when the car is exceptionally dirty, and use Go-Green when you are cleaning off waterspotting, dirty water splashes from rainfall, light dust/dirt, etc...

Go-Green works very well (I used it as a "maintenance wash" on a 911 Turbo without inducing any scratching), just use it quite liberally and have a ton of microfiber towels on hand for the "wash".

[boiler7904]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

First off, if the new rule is not legally incorporated into the covenants and bylaws of the association and they post it for public viewing of all members, they can't enforce it. Simple as that. There are a lot of HOA board members running around with Napoleon complexes and think they rule the land.

If laws in Cali are like Indiana, they have to put the item to a public vote of the members and have it pass (not sure if simple majority or another standard is used) before it can be incorporated. The board can't just create rules on a whim because it fits their mood that day.

If by chance you are allowed to wash / detail your car in your driveway, I'm willing to bet your HOA has a rule against operating a business from your home meaning detailing on the side is a huge no-no that will get you in trouble. Once they latch on to that, then they get your local / state business license and insurance authorities involved to make your life even more fun.

I had a similar run in with my HOA the first summer I lived there. Someone made a BS complaint to them about me so I used the rules in my favor. It simply said that the chemicals be biodegradable. Offered the HOA president and management company a set of the MSDS sheets and they said it wouldn't be necessary and the problem would go away. The next month's newsletter brought the topic up again so that the people with too much time on their hands would quit calling the management office.

Of the things that will harm asphalt, carwash solutions aren't one of them. Oil and gas - yes, transmission fluid - yes, antifreeze - yes, typical car detailing chemicals - no. The paint on your car is more susceptible to damage from chemicals than asphalt so why would you want to use anything harmful on your car?

They are right that the water will end up in the ocean and potentially cause harm to aquatic life. I bet the storm sewers on your streets do the same and there is a lot more hazardous material building up on the streets that gets washed down the drain than your driveway will ever see.

Sounds like you've double checked your local laws and that's in your favor.

You may be in a position where you need to take your car to the local coin op carwash to clean the heavy build up off and then bring it home to do an ONR wash in the garage. Out of sight - out of mind.

[Asphalt_Pro]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

OK,

Some quick research turned this information up at the San Clemente website here. http: //san-clemente.org/sc/standard.aspx?pageid=458

on this page it clearly states that car-wash runoff is allowed in the city of San Clemente.

Here is also a tip page from the city of Carson that states that cars washed on grass solve the problem with water runoff to the ocean. I am not sure if this is a reasonable option for you.

Lastly, and this is where my field of expertise comes in. Water runoff from car washes does not harm asphalt significantly. Especially in regards to residential areas. Water runoff from irrigation systems is a far greater example of water damaging the pavement. Solvents do very little to asphalt short of oil based products and coolants etc.

James

[xantonin]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

Good information here.

Thanks everyone. I hope the original poster updates us on his progress. I'd like to see the reaction of the HOA.

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

Most HOA's and CCR's are more focused on appearances than being environmentally responsible. And car washing is likely viewed by your HOA as a pedestrian or blue collar endeavor like oil changing, or parting out your car in the driveway. Your neighbors already hate having to pay their association fees and they will complain loudly if you do anything contrary to your HOA charter.

Emphasize to the HOA that you will minimize the visual impact to your neighbors by washing your car quickly and early in the morning. Offer to use environmentally friendly no rinse products like Optimum No Rinse (ONR) which significantly reduces your splash imprint and observable water waste to just a few gallons. And be sure to pour your no rinse waste water on the grass

[Deaner5]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

Certainly an interesting thread. I audit some housing cooperatives and can certainly understand that some people have nothing better to do than bug you.

Another option is to offer to wash your car on the grass if you have any. They will probably get worried about tearing that up and might let you keep your driveway instead. Just a thought. Hope everything works out.

[davey g-force]

Re: washing harms asphalt??

A few people have suggested using ONR in the garage.

It is also possible to do a traditional soap & water wash in the garage if your garage is large enough and has a drain.

That's how I do all my washes. Mainly to keep out of sight of the nosey neighbours lol...