The Challenge of Delicate Paint

[fingermouse1831]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

ill try and keep it brief, i have checed forums without success...
so here goes, i have a vw bora need to keep it clean and want a stunning finish.
i need to buy new meguairs products
i have clay and quick detailer, but am waiting on 7 show car polish, 26 or 16 wax, scratch x to remove swirls plast x for dull headlights. this will all be done by hand as i have no machinebuffer. question is, i dont seem to know best way to start? should i use deatailer and clay before scratch x or after and then show car no.7 then 26 and then 16? some assistance in the best order to use these products would help. i need to clean car remove the scratches and then polish up to a deep glossy shine. help greatly recieved the order and what to use.

[akimel]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

Fingermouse, please do not post the same message in multiple threads. Thanks.

[Keefe]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

I just detailed a black 2008 Honda CRV. I used the Flex DA, LC black finishing pad with 205. The paint is really soft. 4 peas of 205 is more than enough for 2X2ft. After the initial spread (1-2 passes) with pressure, I had to use a pad brush to remove 205 then 3-4 passes. Along the way, brushing the pad and lifting the DA as it moves across the paint. This brought about a super shine (5-6 passes). The sheer weight of the Flex seems too much for the paint. That's delicate paint.

PS: All done is setting 1 on DA. Beat that.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

I just detailed a black 2008 Honda CRV. I used the Flex DA, LC black finishing pad with 205. The paint is really soft. 4 peas of 205 is more than enough for 2X2ft. After the initial spread (1-2 passes) with pressure, I had to use a pad brush to remove 205 then 3-4 passes. Along the way, brushing the pad and lifting the DA as it moves across the paint. This brought about a super shine (5-6 passes). The sheer weight of the Flex seems too much for the paint. That's delicate paint.

PS: All done is setting 1 on DA. Beat that.

Nicely done! So many people would have reached for M105 and a polishing pad and used a lot of speed to remove swirls and cobwebs from that car, and then come back here and complained that M105 wasn't working because the finish would be all hazed up.

[JG_Detailing]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

Does Meguiars sell the S3HP hand pad. That thing looks awsome. Would like to have that in my detailing collection.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

The S3HP is currently available online through both Amazon.com and ADS. Just search either site using S3HP (add Meguiar's to the front of that at Amazon) and it will come up.

[WXman]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

Great article! Just completed my 2007 Honda Accord using Swirl-X and Color-X with the G-110 then topped it off with M16! Great results!

[HealthyCivic]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

Mike, I have a question. My Civic is also a 2008 but it's a coupe. I haven't experienced any of these issues even when using UC. Why is this? Did they use a different type of clearcoat on mine than on this one!?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

Mike, I have a question. My Civic is also a 2008 but it's a coupe. I haven't experienced any of these issues even when using UC. Why is this? Did they use a different type of clearcoat on mine than on this one!?

It's very possible, yes. Do you know if the coupe and sedan are built in the same factory? If not then the probability of the paint being different is very high. If they are built in the same factory then this just illustrates how paint systems can change even within a single model year. And it's why we don't like making sweeping generalizations about how hard or soft any paint is just based on make and model.

[FRS]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

Very true, but far too many people automatically reach for the most aggressive product they can find thinking it's going to make the job go faster. Unfortunately, sometimes the opposite is true. But the people who really get into trouble are those who not only grab that aggressive product and use it in an aggressive manner, but do so without ever stopping to gauge their progress. They wait until everything is done, then pull the car out into the sunlight and they are horrified at the result.

We certainly don't expect everyone to go out and buy a whole collection of products, but we would love for them to stop and think first about what they really want to accomplish, and how they really should go about getting there.

I find SwirlX ineffective in a way and too mild.

Ok, I know it depends on type of paint, condition of the same, level of correction required, but still believe that buying UC and working with it doesn't pose any danger to the paint at all. As a matter of fact I consider buying SwirlX a waste of money and found SwirlX to be a milder form of UC.

Thank you for the great post, but there is a lot of marketing in there, aiming to sale as more different products as possible by advising to start from mild product and gradually upgrade to the more aggressive ones.

I've extensively tested all the products in this line, only to conclude that swirlX is insufficient for many applications. UC does the same job with less effort and better result.

There is nothing in my opinion that UC can not do comparing to swirlX and the like .. As a matter of fact I find UC completely sufficient for paint cleaning/correcting applications.

Cheers

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

I find SwirlX ineffective in a way and too mild.

Ok, I know it depends on type of paint, condition of the same, level of correction required, but still believe that buying UC and working with it doesn't pose any danger to the paint at all. As a matter of fact I consider buying SwirlX a waste of money and found SwirlX to be a milder form of UC.

Thank you for the great post, but there is a lot of marketing in there, aiming to sale as more different products as possible by advising to start from mild product and gradually upgrade to the more aggressive ones.

I've extensively tested all the products in this line, only to conclude that swirlX is insufficient for many applications. UC does the same job with less effort and better result.

There is nothing in my opinion that UC can not do comparing to swirlX and the like .. As a matter of fact I find UC completely sufficient for paint cleaning/correcting applications.

Cheers

We appreciate your comments but think you've completely missed the point of this particular article. While we have always been proponents of the concept of "using the least aggressive method to get the job done" we also regularly state that we are NOT, in fact, telling everyone to purchase both SwirlX and UC and start with SwirlX. Ask anyone who's taken our Saturday Class and they'll tell you that we state that flat out. UC is, as you said, completely sufficient for paint cleaning/correcting applications the vast majority of the time.

But the whole point of this article is for those vehicles with paint so delicate that UC is overkill, overly aggressive, and creates a lot of hazing that is extremely frustrating to the user. These cases are not terribly common in the overall scheme of things, but if you're a new user and you jump in with an aggressive product on this sort of paint, the result is not what you expected going in.

In fact, the car we used in this demo was chosen specifically because we saw the owner experience this exact situation during one of our Thursday Night Open Garage sessions. He used UC by hand and the paint was horribly hazed. Was there a bit of technique adjustment needed on his part? Perhaps, but as a fairly new user he was going by everything he had read online. But, quite frankly, his paint looked horrible after using UC. That night we went over the bad hazing using SwirlX on a D/A at a low speed and it completely cleaned up the finish. And so we wanted to do a write up on how to deal with very soft paint.

Yes, it's very true that if you have hard paint, SwirlX is going to be pretty ineffectual with regard to defect removal, no doubt about it. But this article is not about hard paint, or even "average" paint. It's about very soft and delicate paint. And that poses a whole new set of challenges, especially for people new to this hobby. We've seen too many people use overly aggressive products just because that's the natural tendency - grab the heavy duty stuff because it will make the job go faster (or so they think). When they badly haze the finish they don't "read it" as such and just think "this doesn't look as clear and shiny as I expected, so I guess I need something more aggressive". And that's just plain wrong in those cases.

Look at the number of test spots we did on this car and all the problems caused by the more aggressive products. For this delicate paint, the choice was very clear, and it was not an aggressive product.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

I find SwirlX ineffective in a way and too mild.

Ok, I know it depends on type of paint, condition of the same, level of correction required, but still believe that buying UC and working with it doesn't pose any danger to the paint at all. As a matter of fact I consider buying SwirlX a waste of money and found SwirlX to be a milder form of UC.

Thank you for the great post, but there is a lot of marketing in there, aiming to sale as more different products as possible by advising to start from mild product and gradually upgrade to the more aggressive ones.

I've extensively tested all the products in this line, only to conclude that swirlX is insufficient for many applications. UC does the same job with less effort and better result.

There is nothing in my opinion that UC can not do comparing to swirlX and the like .. As a matter of fact I find UC completely sufficient for paint cleaning/correcting applications.

Cheers

To add to what Michael stated, I have even worked on paint (several times, in fact) that was so soft I could leave swirls on clean paint by relatively gently dragging my clean, soft, bare finger tip.



In some cases the only product gentle enough to do correction had to be a cleaner wax, as even SwirlX was too aggressive!

This is why Meguiar's regularly preaches the USE OF A TEST SPOT, always!

[aerogt01]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

How did the M06 compare to ColorX? I would suspect it to be very close, however the M06 is much more attractive to me as it can be purchased in bulk.

My father-in-law's Civic is downright abused and receives deep marring from his preferred wash method. (I have tried again and again to educate him. . .) I had to compound the entire car with M105 which left bad hazing. Followed with D151 (both by hand) the finish looked good, so I continued that for the entire car. However, I did not properly examine the test spot in the proper light, and saw the car a month later to have severe holograms. I have never encountered such a soft finish in my life.

That was the second time I tried to correct that car, once again with unsatisfactory results. I will give ColorX or M06 a try the next chance I get.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

How did the M06 compare to ColorX? I would suspect it to be very close, however the M06 is much more attractive to me as it can be purchased in bulk.

My father-in-law's Civic is downright abused and receives deep marring from his preferred wash method. (I have tried again and again to educate him. . .) I had to compound the entire car with M105 which left bad hazing. Followed with D151 (both by hand) the finish looked good, so I continued that for the entire car. However, I did not properly examine the test spot in the proper light, and saw the car a month later to have severe holograms. I have never encountered such a soft finish in my life.

That was the second time I tried to correct that car, once again with unsatisfactory results. I will give ColorX or M06 a try the next chance I get.

How did you apply the M105?

I have a feeling you created the holograms with the M105 and the D151 (especially applied via hand) did not remove them.

Holograms can be pretty darn difficult to remove even with a proper polish and a machine, let alone with an AIO by hand.

[aerogt01]

Re: The Challenge of Delicate Paint

Both were by hand using moderate pressure and a cotton applicator as I forgot to bring the PC. I'm not too worried about what I did wrong, as I now know the above combination does not work with this paint. It's hard to describe how sensitive that paint is, along with the challenge of removing the marring and finishing well. The main thing is I learned to better examine a test spot before doing the entire car.