Clear coat failing after using M205

[charlestek]

A few months ago, I removed swirls from my car using M205 with a PC and a blue Lake Country pad, and sealed the finish with Optimum products.

I bought the car used (43k miles) and the finish looked to be in reasonably good shape.

However, a month later I was noticing signs of clear coat failure - fractures, small spot/chips with tiny cracks and small spots with wrinkling. I looked at the examples of clear coat failure in terms of fractures/cracks, wrinkling etc. in this forum and it is clear (no pun intended) that the clear coat is indeed failing.

The folks on the autogeek forums told me they doubted very highly that use of M205 would take off more than a few microns of paint, and would have caused the failure. I did use reasonable pressure with 6 strokes per couple foot square in both directions.

I speculated that the car was over polished before I bought it, making the clear coat thin to begin with, but that is just a guess.

So I would like to get input on the possibility that I caused the failure directly. Obviously I'm sick to my stomach with the prospect of either dumping the car with a large loss, or repainting the whole thing with a large cost.

Thanks

[Superior Shine]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

It isn't uncommon for a car to be prettied up before being sold. You paint had to be already on it's way to failing long before you applied 205.

[charlestek]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

Superior,

Thanks. It was purchased from a private party, but I remember the woman mentioning she used automatic car washes, yet the paint looked pretty good, so the two did not jive. I would have much rather gotten a car that had swirls and defects and fixed it myself than have had some butcher polish the clear coat out of existence before I got the car. What to do with the car is a big question. I'm seeing these small chips with cracks and wrinkles appear steadily over one week to the next.
Painting the car is one thing, but finding someone who will do a good job with removing all the trim etc. and doing it right is another thing. I found someone online who specializes in auto body restoration rather than just accident repair, so I will have to get an estimate. I suspect that a total paint job would run at least 5K, but otherwise it is going to be hard to sell the car honestly without knowing I'm giving someone headaches down the line, and I probably would take a fair loss.

[Joe in PA]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

Absolutely no way the M205 caused the clear coat to fail.

What you are seeing, like you were told on AG, is paint damage that was there when you purchased the vehicle. All the M205 did was remove whatever was used to obscure the bird bombs and other etchings. Either live with it or sell the vehicle and take the loss. The "damage" is/was already done.

[charlestek]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

Joe,

I know that the damage is done. It did not appear until many weeks after my polishing and sealing, and definitely was not due to unhiding by 205, as the defects are appearing weekly over time as if the environment is now getting through the thin clear coat and causing its breakdown gradually.

But whatever, you're right I have to weigh things and figure out what to do with the whole mess. At least I don't have to feel guilty that I caused the issue, or know that with the next car I still can use M205 without fear. Frankly though I probably would use M#9 instead.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

It appears that the previous owner laid done enough wax to "fill" everything in. Your using 205 just removed everything. This is how the automatic car washes and good looking paint jive.

It was not caused by using the 205.

[eyezack87]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

Consider purchasing a paint gauge to measure the paint in the future before attempting to polish it. Thats what I use on every car I work on to make sure it is safe

[greg0303]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

Consider purchasing a paint gauge to measure the paint in the future before attempting to polish it. Thats what I use on every car I work on to make sure it is safe

That's a well spent money.

You never know who worked on paint before you and how much removal has been done.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

Joe,

I know that the damage is done. It did not appear until many weeks after my polishing and sealing, and definitely was not due to unhiding by 205, as the defects are appearing weekly over time as if the environment is now getting through the thin clear coat and causing its breakdown gradually.

But whatever, you're right I have to weigh things and figure out what to do with the whole mess. At least I don't have to feel guilty that I caused the issue, or know that with the next car I still can use M205 without fear. Frankly though I probably would use M#9 instead.

If your paint was so thin that M205 applied via DA with a polishing pad one time was enough to "cause" clearcoat failure, it wouldn't have mattered what product you used - or if you used ANY product at all.

Your paint was shot - using the M205 might have accelerated the failure by 2-3 months compared to not polishing at all, but it certainly didn't *cause* clear coat failure - it *exposed* it.

Had you used M09 instead, the end result would have been no different. This paint was too thin to last no matter what.

It's a big bummer , but don't let it discourage you too much. Having something like this happen is incredibly rare from such a gentle combination, and really was a result of past case (or lack there of), NOT what you did or used.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

I, for one, would appreciate seeing some shots of the car's paint. It may be a bit difficult to capture, but give it a try.

Perhaps we can form a solid plan of attack! Without seeing the damage, how can you possibly be receiving accurate advice?

Could be a repaint, shrinkage, solvent pops... get the pics and we'll go from there.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

I, for one, would appreciate seeing some shots of the car's paint. It may be a bit difficult to capture, but give it a try.

Perhaps we can form a solid plan of attack! Without seeing the damage, how can you possibly be receiving accurate advice?

Could be a repaint, shrinkage, solvent pops... get the pics and we'll go from there.

Agreed.

And keep in mind, too, that paint does not need to have the clear coat buffed down to almost nothing in order for it to fail. Plenty of cars have exhibited clear coat failure even though a buffer never touched them. Sometimes a manufacturing defect can cause it, sometimes just good old fashioned abuse and neglect will do it too.

[Flash Gordon]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

Sounds like the previous owner hit it with #7 Did she also mention she only drove it to church on Sundays


Some super sharp pics would tell the whole story for sure

[new2detailing]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

@Charlestek: What kind of car is it? The reason I am asking is that late model Honda's are notorious for premature CC failure. In fact, I believe that Honda may pay for the failure.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Clear coat failing after using M205

@Charlestek: What kind of car is it? The reason I am asking is that late model Honda's are notorious for premature CC failure. In fact, I believe that Honda may pay for the failure.

That would be great. I hope it is true for his sake.