fillers

[tripper_11]

In Autopia, some members believe fillers = oils.

Also some believe meg's concept of pure polish (which is pure TS oil) is similar to Autopian concept of a glaze (that is without abrasives but mostly fillers)

#83 and #80 contains megs TS oils which is also present in megs glazes i.e. #7, #5, #81, etc.

Does it mean that #83 and #80 contain TS oils which are fillers? Or Autopians were just heading in the wrong direction with this belief?

How to reconcile the not so irreconcilable difference?

Is it correct to conclude that, #83 and #80 have abrasives in them and at the same time contain fillers because of the TS oils?

I'm really confused when some Autopians say that #83 and #80 have fillers where in fact there's nothing to fill because the swirls have already been cut through the paint?

See my point?

What then is the use of the TS oils which they believe are just fillers? Isn't for lubrication only and not intended to fill?

[Mike Phillips]

Sometimes people forget that the reason we all clean, polish and protect our car's paint is to make it look good. For over 100 years, Meguiar's polishes, starting with our Furniture Cleaners and Polishes in 1901 and continuing into the future with new technology like our NXT Generation line of products, Meguiar's continues our legacy for creating brilliant high gloss results on all types of finishes.

Meguiar's polishes create beauty, they make your car's paint look rich and vibrant in color. If you have a dark or black colored paint, they create depth and reflectivity. These are the characteristics that people love to see and strive for in their car. Meguiar's products have been used by more best of class and best of show winners at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance than any other brand for as long as records have been kept of what is considered the pinnacle of car shows.

Meguiar's trade secret oils are responsible for create show car results and they are only a single component of very complex formulas. To label a product as having fillers is to simple and takes the focus off the complex action taking place on the surface which if performed correctly and with the right combination of products results in perfection.

People can post whatever opinion they subscribe to on a discussion forum, but that doesn't mean it's accurate or true.

Meguiar's products have proven themselves to create beautiful finishes for over 100 years, basically since cars have become the preferred method of transportation starting in the early 1900's. There are a lot of choices on the market, we hope you'll choose Meguiar's for all of your car care needs including our paint cleaners and polishes after all, there's a reason serious enthusiasts around the world use and trust in the Meguiar's name. Here's just one example,

Meguiar's Shines At 2004 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance


"Best of Show" (1938 Horch), Plus 21 of 24 Class Winners Choose Meguiar's Car Care Products

Irvine, CA. Once again, almost all of the cars (21 out of 24) that won "Best of Class" honors at the world-famous Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, as well as the car that won Pebble's coveted "Best of Show" trophy, achieved their flawless appearances using Meguiar's products.

1938 Horch, owned by Judge Joseph C. Cassini III and his wife Margie of West Orange, N.J.


The show winning 1938 Horch, owned by Judge Joseph C. Cassini III and his wife Margie of West Orange, N.J., is one of only two Horch Roadsters still in existence. "This is the second car that we've restored that has won the Best of Show title at the Pebble Beach Concours," says Rob Myers, founder of RM Restorations celebrating its 25th anniversary, "and we've been using Meguiar's products from the very beginning."


Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Here's another article with some information on polishing to consider,

Why Meguiar's recommends polishing paint

Resins
The primary ingredient used in automotive paints to actually coat over, protect, and beautify your vehicle is called resin. Resins are made from different types of oils. These oils vary depending on the paint type, but they are oils just the same. Early resins were made from raw materials such as the oils from Soya Beans, Flax Seeds, China Tung Nuts, Safflower seeds, Cottonseeds, and even Sardines! These surfaces required replenishing the oils over time, e.g. such as a wood finish needs oils to maintain its shine and beauty.

Modern resins are typically derived from polyurethane and/or acrylic polymers, which are tougher and more resistant to harsh environmental damage. Even though modern resins are more durable, they will breakdown over time through deterioration.

Deterioration is usually caused by the forces of oxidation, or reduction. Primarily deterioration comes from exposure to outdoor environments such as inclement weather, or warm temperatures and direct sunlight. Washing with high alkaline detergent soaps accelerate this deterioration by stripping any wax protection off the surface and by attacking and drying out the resins. Think about it this way, if you have a brand new car or a brand new paint job and you store the car in a garage, (or say a museum), the finish never deteriorates. That's because it is never exposed to forces that attack and deteriorate the resins.

When the resins breakdown and are removed from the surface, they leave behind pockets of air or pores into which water and other unwanted substances can penetrate into. When water, high alkaline detergent soaps, acid rain, alkaline rain, harsh solvents or other unwanted substances get into these pores they act to accelerate the deterioration process, (oxidation or reduction).

When you apply a Meguiar's polish, the trade secret oils found in all Meguiar's polishes, (and even Meguiar's compounds, cleaner/polishes and even some waxes), penetrate into the paint and replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down, leached out and/or deteriorated. These trade secret oils then act to fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets and surface imperfections thus preventing unwanted substances from entering into these areas.

For over 100 years, Meguiar's trade secret oils have been proven to beautify and maintain automotive paints.

Meguiar's Trade Secret Oils
The trade secret oils used in Meguiar's products for over 100 years benefit your paint in a number of different ways, here are two very important ones,

1) They add beauty, gloss and reflectivity
Meguiar's trade secret oils add beauty by darkening medium to dark colors. Most people agree a deep, dark wet looking finish looks better than a dry, hazy, plasticy looking finish. They also increase gloss by filling in and smoothing out the surface creating a deep, wet-look shine that everyone admires.

2) They replace and replenish the oils/resins originally present in your car's paint
Meguiar's trade secret oils penetrate into and fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets, and surface imperfections created in your car's paint by the effects of either oxidation or reduction. This prevents detrimental substances from getting into these microscopic areas and accelerating the deterioration of your car's finish.
Unlike most wax companies in the car care industry, Meguiar's has over 100 years of experience working with the companies that make the paint that is applied at the OEM level, (car manufactures), right on the assembly line, and also in the refinishing industry, (your local body shops and custom paint shops).

Meguiar's unique background and close relationships with giants in both the automotive paint industry and new car manufactures, (for about as long as these two industries have been around), should give you the confidence you need to enable you to place your trust in Meguiar's, the surface care experts.
100 years of making just about every surface coating look it's best and last it's longest is probably the best proof you can ask for when deciding for yourself whether or not you want to polish your car's finish with a Meguiar's polish.

The proof is in the pudding
More Best of Class winners use Meguiar's products each year at the Pebble Beach Concours De Elegance, (the most prestigious car show in the world), than any other car care product since records have been kept.

Meguiar's knows paint
If you choose to wash your car with a high alkaline detergent soap, expect the paint finish to deteriorate prematurely. Meguiar's always recommends you use a premium car wash specifically formulated for automotive paints and all of the other materials commonly used to make the multitude of other components found on your vehicle.

Remember, paint is a delicate, thin coating, which is easily dulled and easily scratched. Choose carefully whose advise you listen to.

Mike

[travisdecpn]

If you ever doubt that your #83 and #80 are doing their job spray a 50/50 water/alcohol mix on it to reveal any imperfections. I have tried many times and failed to see the presence of any remaining swirls or scratches. I have complete confidence in the Meguiar's product line to do what the bottle says.

[tripper_11]

enlightening Mike!

How I wish you could have posted this at Autopia not only for the benefit of the close-minded but also for the newbies which may be drag along the filling and non-filling bandwagon!

I don't care whether these products fills or not, for as long as it does the job right.

I continue to use my favorite #80 Speed Glaze. (together with Menzerna's and 3M) It just have a unique look of its own. I've done the 50:50 alcohol test and posted the result at Autopia.

Just a very very very light deteriotion in the reflection as it removes a very thin film, which may or may not be the #80's paintable polymer. But at any rate, the light (very light) swirls weren't there...

(that was #80 using the W8000 pad with the rotary on a scrap hood panel)

[Bill D]

I think the biggest concern folks have about "fillers" in any brand of polish is that all their hard work could eventually be "ruined" when they see a defect that they though they removed "reappear". This is usually attributed to an ingredient in the product(s) used that did, in fact, cover whatever part of the original defect it could not remove. Sometimes attempting total defect removal simply isn't advisable due to fragile paint condition.

Meguiars polishes may contain products that are capable of doing this, they may not. I understand Mike's point about the beautifying qualities these ingredients offer. By no means do I believe Meguiars polishes, the Pro line in particular, cannot totally remove defects. Technique and machine used and opinion of user friendliness may be more significant issues It's great to have MOL to discuss just those issues. Learning more and more about products to maximize results is always a positive thing

As stated before the water:alcohol technique is always a good one to use to "double check" before proceeding further with the detail.

As alluded to earlier, open mindness is an important ingredient for success. Meguiars should be considered one of several good "tools in the toolbox" so to speak . Then we get in trouble with a gigantic collection of polishes overflowing from our garages All in good fun!

[Mike Phillips]

All very good points Bill

Just to add, Meguiar's has always been about removing defects, not merely filling them in. Part of the polishing process is doing everything you can to not put defects in in the first place, then you don't have to remove them.

Meguiar's history is actually a history of creating products for the Professional side of this industry, that would be products for use on assembly lines where paint is applied the first time as the car is being assembled, and the refinishing industry, where paint is often applied a second time. This unique background, (when compared to the majority of car wax manufactures), is Meguiar's strength when it comes to defect removal, and more important, preventing defects in the first place.

For example, Meguiar's pioneered the use of diminishing abrasive for removing defects in paint while our competitors for most of the last 100 years relied on mechanical abrasives that are very sharp and don't break down, this leaves the finish scoured and filled with swirls.

Even Meguiar's first products formulated for cleaning and polishing finished wood furniture used diminishing abrasive for cleaning, or removing defects in the finish.




Later, Meguiar's introduced the idea of buffing with foam with the "Wooless Wonder". This foam buffing pad was introduced in 1965, thats 40 years ago, 20 and 30 years before others copied the idea.



In the 1980's, Meguiar's introduced the "Nikken" brand of finishing papers, which offer Unigrit particle size and placement over a sheet of paper to provide a dramatically more controlled sanding mark pattern that buffs out faster and easier while leaving more paint on the car.



There's an old say that goes like this,

"Work smarter, not harder"

A lot of companies talk the talk, but Meguiar's history is one of walking the talk. This is one of the strong reasons that first attracted me to working with the Meguiar's brand, and that is their well-thought out paint polishing system as it makes the best sense. That is, controlled sanding marks, diminishing abrasives, foam buffing pad technology and at the very end, premium quality pure polishes and waxes.

Mike