The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

[Shawn T.]

So we've all heard the debate of the cleaners in this product. Some insist that it because they think it clenas, it can not be layered, out over certain products, etc. Meguiars though cinstantly reinforces the idea that the user will recieve more cleaning capabilities in the movement of the applicator then the chemicals in the product. Where is this idea coming from?

This is not a bashing of a company. I simply want to lend a hand and try and put that rumor to rest. Anyway, this is what AutoGeek says about NXT Tech Wax 2.0 (just the parts that matter):

Meguiar’s does not recommend layering Tech Wax 2.0 over another sealant or wax. It has slight cleaning properties, but one coat is all you need to achieve dramatic results.

At the same time you’re protecting your car with NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0, “specialized, clear coat safe abrasives” included in the formula eliminate those fine scratches so you can have a flawless finish! No other sealant can do that! Fans of Tech Wax 2.0, and I assure you there is an army of them, report what it is that makes Tech Wax 2.0 their favorite. Sharp, crisp reflections and bold profiling. The visual result is a nice balance between a shiny, clear sealant look and a deep, glossy carnauba. OUTSTANDING!


People reading this from the website would figure that NXT Tech Wax 2.0 indeed is a cleaner/wax since this description says it cleans, polishes and protects in one step ("slight cleaning properties," "'specialized clear coat safe abrasives'").

Hopefully Meguiars can ask AutoGeek to change this on thier website so that people will consider NXT Tech Wax 2.0 a finishing wax as it was intended to be.

Thanks for reading. Once again, I did not mean any harm to anyone but simply raise an issue that I saw.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

I'll look into this on our side...

The first version of NXT has cleaning ability as I have a copy of the original FAQ on this product as well a copy of the original FAQ for M21 and the NXT FAQ asks the question and answers it.

I know that NXT 2.0 was not just tweaked when they reformulated but reformulated from the ground up.

The current NXT 2.0 is not a cleaner/wax as it not intended to restore neglected paint and if fact if your car's paint is neglected then you should first use a paint cleaner, polish or compound to restore a clear, defect free finish.

The issue that most people D.O. about this topic is that if it has ANY CLEANING ABILITY AT ALL then it cannot be layered because subsequent layers will simply remove the first layer. This assumes any wax can be layered at all and I wrote a very lengthy article on this in 2005 and to date no one has ever proved what I've written is inaccurate. No one.

Here's that thread,

What's the deal with "Layering?"

Here's what I wrote, it's copied and pasted from the FAQ but I wrote it for the FAQ

Meguiar's *NEW* FAQ [/B],

13. Can Meguiar's waxes be "Layered"?

Meguiar's waxes can be layered, but two things must be tended to when layering waxes. 1) You must use the right waxes ("Layerable" waxes), and 2) You must recognize that at some point, "The Law of Diminishing Returns" takes effect.


Layerable waxes

A Layerable wax, is a wax that the protective ingredients used in the formula (natural and synthetic), are such that the protective layer left behind will not only adhere to the paint, but in subsequent applications, will adhere to itself. It also means that the carrying agents, be they solvent, water or something else, cannot be strong enough or in high enough concentrations to re-liquefy the previously applied layer, thus removing it during your attempt to add another layer.

Layerable waxes are primarily pure waxes, or protectants (as synthetic formulas are referred to) that do not contain chemical cleaners, or solvents that will remove the previous layer.

There is an exception to this rule and that is that it is possible to first apply a cleaner wax, and then apply a pure wax or pure synthetic over it.


The Law of Diminishing Returns
(Thomas Malthus "Essay on the Principle of Population" published in 1798.)

While this theory is generally used to discuss topics as they relate to the areas of economics and politics, it is a model that can also be used to explain in this case, the complex action occurring at the microscopic level on the surface of your car's finish.

The law of diminishing returns as it relates to layering,

A surface, such as an automotive paint, can only hold so much product before all you're doing is removing all subsequent coatings applied to the surface.


That is to say, after the first, second and in some cases a third application/coating, any more product applied to the surface is merely removed when you wipe the excess off after waiting for the product to cure.

At this point you've reached a plateau (or limit), as to how much wax (natural or synthetic) a surface can hold. Once you reach this plateau, all further applications of wax simply become excess that will be removed (and thus wasted), during wipe-off because it has nowhere to attach and layer.

Of course, this all depends upon your definition of the word "Layer". If your definition of the word layer follows that of Webster's Dictionary:

2 a: One thickness, course, or fold, laid or lying over or under another.

Then yes, you can layer to a certain point. For example, you can add multiple layers of layerable waxes until the limit to how much a given surface of an automotive paint can hold before each additional application is simply removed, or replaces a previously applied layer.

You cannot layer to the point of developing a measurable film-build, and this is key; without negatively affecting, or diminishing to some degree, the shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color etc. of the finish

This is especially true if the product you're applying is not clear (in and of itself) to start with. If your definition of the word "layer" follows that of definition used by some on the Internet,

Layer 1: To continually build a greater level of protection with each additional application, or layer, of a wax or protectant. (Natural or synthetic)

Layer 2: To continually increase shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color without end and/or after a plateau, or point of maximum potential has been achieved.

Then no, you cannot layer a wax, synthetic, natural, or otherwise.

I can't think of anyone that has answered the questions about cleaners in NXT on forums than myself... it's almost funny as this has been going on since it was introduced and the great thread about cleaners started by geekysteve back in 2004. I'm sure the folks at Meguiar's Customer Care Hotline have also answered this question a lot...

It all comes down to the fact that this is a product marketed and distributed to retail auto parts stores where the "Average" person is working on a daily driver and because daily drivers get swirls, scratches, oxidation and staining from the dirt and pollution in the air and water if you live in a state where it rains and for this reason the "Average" person needs a wax with some cleaning ability. The reason the average person needs a wax with some cleaning ability is because the "Average" person is going to do 2 things...

1. Wash the car
2. Wax the car

Enthusiasts that hang out on forums will clay the paint and use a pre-wax cleaner of some type, but the average person will do 2 things and after the 2 steps they expect to see a dramatic difference and if the paint on their car is in fact neglected, then if the wax they use doesn't offer even a skosh of cleaning ability the difference between before and after will be negligible.


I have an article that discusses this, I think it's called,

The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us

Use to be on Autopia, I have re-written it and posted it to AGO but I don't think the updated version is on MOL


Thanks for bring this topic up Shawn... it's a topic that seemingly will never go away...

[Murr1525]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Lessons from White Paint.... have to find the updated version.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Now that is interesting, but it is not our official stance on NXT Tech Wax 2.0.

We classify NXT Tech Wax 2.0 as a polish wax, not a cleaner wax. Period. As a polish wax it certainly has the ability to hide some very fine defects, but then again so do virtually all waxes and sealants, at least to some degree, simply by virtue of the fact that you leave something behind when applying them.

While it is true that we are not proponents of "layering" per se, we have long recommended two thin coats just to ensure uniform coverage and appearance. That includes when using NXT Tech Wax 2.0.

We'll touch base with our good friends at Autogeek and see about having them revising that description.


Edit to add: Well, it looks like our good friends at Autogeek (hi Mike!) are already on it!

[Shawn T.]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Wow, two Mikes! lol

That's what I didn't understand about the "clear coat safe abrasives"..........but yeah. I just wanted to help smooth that over.

Thanks for responding guys!

Mike P. you are right sir............it will never go away..........

[Mike Phillips]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Lessons from White Paint.... have to find the updated version.

Ask and you shall receive...

The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us

Now that is interesting, but it is not our official stance on NXT Tech Wax 2.0.

We classify NXT Tech Wax 2.0 as a polish wax, not a cleaner wax. Period. As a polish wax it certainly has the ability to hide some very fine defects, but then again so do virtually all waxes and sealants, at least to some degree, simply by virtue of the fact that you leave something behind when applying them.

Yep, I agree, in fact I even wrote an article about that here,

Any wax that works fills to some degree

We'll touch base with our good friends at Autogeek and see about having them revising that description.


Edit to add: Well, it looks like our good friends at Autogeek (hi Mike!) are already on it!

I'm always willing to help wherever I can...

Wow, two Mikes! lol

That's what I didn't understand about the "clear coat safe abrasives"..........but yeah. I just wanted to help smooth that over.

People that hang out on detailing forums like this one are way ahead of the masses as far as their knowledge of detailing in general and products and terminology in specific.

And it can be tricky finding a way to describe what a product does without making it sound like it's going to scratch the paint to the masses.

Mike P. you are right sir............it will never go away..........

And there's a story behind that too...

[Tim Lingor]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

And there's a story behind that too...

Oh I remember all about it! UGH!

Tim

[tguil]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Golly, the two Mike's, Tim "2hotford" and Murr1525 all on the same thread at pretty much the same time. A "classic" thread for sure.

For what's it's worth and regardless of what's in it. I typically use NXT 2.0 like I would a cleaner wax either with a pc or by hand. I simply apply it with vigor -- one application about once every 6-8 weeks. Twice a year I apply ColorX because of it's cleaning ability, especially since I have two white trucks. Goes back the to very old advice..."Find something you like and use it often." Now where did that come from?

Tom

[Mike Phillips]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Goes back the to very old advice...

"Find something you like and use it often."


Now where did that come from?

Tom

That came from Jack Anderson, I've been quoting him for years... actually wrote an article about the story, not sure if I posted here or not...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Here it is on MOL

"Find something you like and use it often"

[Shawn T.]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

AutoGeek website still says NXT 2.0 has "clear coat safe abrasives." Just saying.

[NorthantsPete]

Re: The debate of cleaners in NXT Tech Wax 2.0

Or just use the cleaner wax??
And stick some Megs #16 over the top for extra durability as it comes out top consistently in durability tests